gusmahler

I wonder who here is planning to go with an aftermarket system? Yeah, it's hard to decide before you hear the system, but an aftermarket system with a subwoofer will almost certainly play louder and should sound better, if installed by a competent person.

I had an aftermarket system in a previous car, but it was stolen, and I never replaced it. I was actually relatively happy with the stock system in my current car. However, I recently re-discovered my passion for Rap and Techno music, and I really miss my subwoofer :-)

CraziFuzzy

I don't know if I'd want to get rid of my good weight distro with huge subs in the trunk. I can't get to them now, but I was pretty sure that the RX-8's system had some pretty impressive sound... I think it had like 8" woofers in the doors... should be PLENTY of bass for quite some time. As for an aftermarket system, I'd recommend sticking with the stock head unit, If you need to add more bass, I'd recomend just adding the Amp's and speakers... The thing I'm curious about is how I'm going to hook up my XM reciever... I sure hope there is a line in on the factory stereo... I hate the idea of having to install an FM modulator... Maybe there is a line in I can hack into that comes from the NAV system... hmmm... (wheels churning...)

Quick_lude

I'm sorry Fuzzy but in most stereos(Not Bose) the first thing to change should be the head unit. Most stock head units are not very good.. low and dirty output. With Bose since the whole system is designed to work together, the head unit and speakers have to be removed.

Sputnik

There are several cars out there with head units with more than adequate quality for a good system with just the addition of amps and speakers. Unless you want more "flash", or options that you can't get on a factory head unit, it's a waste of money to replace it. The addition of items like steering wheel controls and displays which are integrated with climate control displays also make it less desirable to replace a factory head unit. It's something that differs among cars, people, and budgets.

Don't forget, it is difficult, but not impossible to add aftermarket amps and speakers to a Bose system. So it's a decision of whether it is worth it or not. And Bose isn't the only system that makes it difficult to only upgrade amps and speakers.

---jps

gusmahler

Ah, but the key question then becomes: is the RX-8 one of them? As stated before, many stock head units clip at relatively low power levels or otherwise present "dirty" information to the speakers. No matter how good your speakers are, if you are have distorted head unit, you will have a distorted sound.


Yeah, that is why I'm wavering. The stock RX-8 blends in well and an aftermarket stereo won't. Aftermarket equipment is also more likely to be stolen.

Quick_lude

Sputnik, maybe I'm misiniformed.. so are you saying that there are stock head units with high voltage, low resistance pre amp outputs?

xeos

I'm planning to install an aftermarket system.

I probably have to retain the bose head-unit since it's integrated, but I'll have to look into that. If it has phono-outputs I'm happy. Rest of the system will be ripped out as soon as I get the car

I have over $4000 of audio equipment in the car I currently own and I'm not willing to settle for a factory system, allthough it may be a good factory system

Sputnik

That's the thing, we have to wait until we can see if the RX8 head unit (either the normal, or the Bose version) is worth keeping. If they are, then it's another way to "skin the cat".

I don't know of any factory head units in particular with standard high-voltage RCA outputs. Very few factory head units even have RCA outputs. But some do have pre-amp level outputs, and you simply have to splice wires. A few even have high-voltage outputs, and all you have to do is splice wires.

Then there are some with only speaker outputs, but even then, you can get some clean sound with good frequency ranges from a set of speaker-preamp adapters. While this isn't how you setup a competition system, you can get sound that's clean enough that you will have a hard time telling the difference.

My point with the "flashy" comment, is that the reason most people out there swap head units is more for the "bling-bling" effect than sound quality. If that's what you want, then cool. If you want some certain features, then cool. But if you're just looking for good sound (and would like to keep a stealth setup while your at it), you can normally save some money to use on other items instead.

---jps

gusmahler

While many do use new head units for the bling bling factor there are also legitimate reasons to do so:
* XM radio (not typically included in factory head units)
* ability to play MP3 CDs (not typically included in factory head units)
* more convenient changer. The RX-8 will apparently have an in-dash changer, where you have to put all the CDs in 1 at a time. My previous car had a cartridge type changer. You fill the cartridge up at home (where your CDs are) and pop it into the changer.
* more informative display. Many aftermarket displays show CD-Text information
* Of course, the 4-volt pre-amp outputs.

What confuses me is why car manufacturers are so against the aftermarket? It would be so simple if Bose or Mazda made a head unit with 4 RCA pre-outs, instead of some proprietary stuff. It would be so simple if all car manufacturers used the standard size radio, instead of "customizing" the dash so you can't change anything. It would be simple if the Bose amp had standard inputs and outputs, so you could just stick in a higher power aftermarket amplifier.

What is the purpose of making it difficult to upgrade? I already bought the car and the stereo, there's no point in not letting me buy another one.

PUR NRG

I'll use BMW as an example since I have one.

1. Custom head unit can be designed to fit the intended space. The E39 non-nav version is short but wide for example.
2. BMW routes various computer functions through the head unit. MFD options, etc.
3. If you want to upgrade sound, you have to choose BMW's proprietary DSP option.
4. If you want to get nav, you have to choose BMW's proprietary NAV sytem.
5. As a "closed" system mechanics won't have to worry about aftermarket add-ons interfering with factory electronics.
________
Anus

gusmahler

Only 5 is a valid reason.
1. I think it is the opposite. A custom size is used to prevent upgrades.
2. Again, done to prevent upgrades.
3. Is it really worth that much? The user is already buying a $30k+ car. Is making an additional $1k for a stereo upgrade that valuable? I understand that the custom stereo community is relatively small, but the car manufacturers have to realize they are pissing them off by making things proprietary.
4. See 3.

gusmahler

Check out this thread on my350z.com (I believe you have to register to look at the thread, unfortunately).

Subwoofer installs

Someone should do the same at this forum, after the RX-8 is out.

ZoomZoom

I'll keep mine basic factory thank you.

Sputnik

Yes, that's why I said that if you do want certain features, then it makes sense. The thing is, it would cost them more to make it so that everything had standard connections. They don't intentionally make it proprietary to make it difficult, it just turns out that proprietary is easier (and thus cheaper) to put together in each car. They wouldn't gain one red cent from spending the extra money to make it slightly easier for the very few owners who will retain portions of the stereo system when upgrading. Especially since, for whatever reason, good, bad, or indifferent, most of the people who will upgrade their stereos will take out all of the factory systems anyway.

---jps

PUR NRG

That's your opinion, but I disagree. #3 and #4 are prime examples of manufacturers trying to wring every last buck they can. Note I didn't say they are good reasons for consumers, just possible reasons for manufacturers.

However you can also take the position that integration (#2, which requires #3 and #4) is handy as well. BMW sells an integrated cell phone option for $1k that pipes through the car's speakers. If you have the nav system it will also tie into the GPS and airbag sensors so in the event of an accident it automatically calls for help and gives your GPS coordinates. You can't do that with aftermarket components.

Not true. Most auto manufactuers use standard DIN sizes so head units can be used in multiple lines across many manufacturers (with a little rebranding). Standardized connectors, wiring, etc also makes production cheaper. It is more expensive to make a custom head unit in-house for a limited number of cars than outsource it. Standard object-oriented design theory for you programming geeks. :D
________
Lovely Wendie

Quick_lude

There is a simple solution to this that would allow manufacturers to keep their integration. Make sure the HU has the latest features and provide the option for high voltage, clean low resistance RCA pre amp outs. I'd be more than happy with that.

KAuss

I don't know if I have the absolute answer, but this might be the making of BOSE!!

The thing is, Mazda signed the contract for Bose to put systems in their cars, or maybe car in this instance.. Then Bose being Bose, they can't stand for a standard size, and had to go fancy pants with their H/U, their overly advertised "we make your music sound the best" in which you can't really have a best computer control system probably took a lot more space than your average DIN or Double DIN. I don't think anything will be wired through the 8's stocker unit, and companies are getting screwed by funky stereo contracts..

I don't know, maybe if everyone took into consideration that they made the engine so custom that you are no long allowed to put bolt ons anymore with just a few bolts but instead a horde or custom work to make it happen.. That would totally suck while many would say "oh I can settle for the stock exhaust" (which is even more true than that of a stock stereo H/U)

It'll be even funnier when they contract with someone like pep boys LOL keeping you from changing the stock parts...

But depending on how long the contract is, they might not make another center console for sometime at least until they decide to pull the plug on Bose and just go with standard systems...

CraziFuzzy

The answer to most of this is simple... marketing... the general car buying public has gotten tired of straight lines, rectangles and such... The stereos in cars are being designed for one purpose, to sell the car... you really can't blame the companies for doing this, selling cars is their business. I have replaced the round stereo in my Escort (hey, don't laugh, its cheap :D) because i wanted CD and line in for my XM tuner. As it was I got an MP3 player along with it, but it wasn't the reason... but frankly, having the round panel, with a rectangular stereo, in a completely curved interior, is just aestheticly (sp?) unappealing. In general, MOST car buyers never change out their stock radios. And this is especially tru in cars that offer 'damn good enough' solutions like the bose in the RX-8... besides.. having a front center channel speaker gives a kinda gadget factor to it.. hehe...

plink, plink... (2 cents deposited)

DreamWarrior

I think was ticks me off most about abnormal head units and such is that not only is it a pain to switch them out for something, but almost inevitably they never offer up to date technology. So not only do they make it a pain to upgrade, they don't even go the distance to make it so you don't have to. In this case, I'd really love to have seen MP3 technology, I had it before my gear got stolen and I loved it! 10 discs worth of information on a single disc, it was sweet. Add to that the fact that there's no satellite radio support, and not even a stock disc changer...so, you basically get stuck with a "pretty" head unit that doesn't do anything more than play cd's. While I guess that is OK for most people, I think the fact that aftermarket head units are selling quite well shows that people want more features...if you are going to make it difficult for us to get them, then give them to us! Bose didn't do this, and that upsets me!

Oh, just an idea...but anyone think it'd be possible to gut the stereo and keep the panel on there and rig some kind of device to it through the faceplate connector on removable faceplate head units...that would be nice! Looks stock, but behind the scenes is an aftermarket deck....

Sputnik

It's an idea, and it's definitely possible. The thing that you would have to consider is that the CD slot would have to be lined up with the factory slot. The big issue would be that you would have to make sure that the controls between the factory head unit and your aftermarket head unit operate in the same manner. It will be near impossible if the head unit that you've chosen has twice as many buttons, for example. Even more difficult would be the integration of the aftermarket display into the very proprietary display in the factory stereo.

---jps

LambertRX8

Better check the last page of the manual. Any after market audio equipment voids warranty. Just found that out by trying to get my XM radio RF Modulator installed. (By dealer). Which by the way doesnt seem to be able to happen unless they are screwing with me.

bureau13

I'm pretty sure this is illegal, unless the law in question doesn't apply to automotive audio equipment for some reason. Assuming it does, it is illegal for them to refuse to fix the factory head unit just because you added a sub. There's no reason adding the sub would harm the head unit. However, if you added an aftermarket amp and then tried to get blown speakers fixed under warranty, you may have a problem.

Anyone know if there are specific exclusions in the warranty laws for audio equipment?

jds

mikeb

wow, I never knew that. well I already added two subs and a amp so if something blows I guess I'm paying.

POD

Damn this sucks! I have 2 12" RF Power HX2 subs and just finish building a box for it. I don't have my RX8 yet but planning to install it in as soon as I get it.

bureau13

Guys, relax! How on earth could attaching subs to a stereo cause damage to said stereo, unless you are clueless when you install it and attach something where it shouldn't go? If you're that paranoid about it, and think there's a good chance of needing warranty work on the audio stuff...just take out the sub enclosure, etc when you take it in.

jds