Stereo faceplate and controls
03-24-2004, 09:51 PM
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So I just bought a new RX-8 with the stock system. And although not the worst system, it's far from the best.
Like all of you on here, I'd like to replace it with something better.
Concerns and what can be done with them:
1) the face plate (I've read the other posts about it and I know that a custom one needs to be made in order to have an aftermarket head unit)
2) The controls: I like the controls on the steering wheel and I'd hate to lose that.
With so many other cars with this same feature, I've got to think that the aftermarket stereos have controls for this. The question is, which ones?
3) Do I lose the "red display" if I hook up an aftermarket? I am pretty sure that I do, but maybe someone knows something about this.
Thanks everyone.
Like all of you on here, I'd like to replace it with something better.
Concerns and what can be done with them:
1) the face plate (I've read the other posts about it and I know that a custom one needs to be made in order to have an aftermarket head unit)
2) The controls: I like the controls on the steering wheel and I'd hate to lose that.
With so many other cars with this same feature, I've got to think that the aftermarket stereos have controls for this. The question is, which ones?
3) Do I lose the "red display" if I hook up an aftermarket? I am pretty sure that I do, but maybe someone knows something about this.
Thanks everyone.
03-24-2004, 10:05 PM
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1. There are a couple of companies working on after market face plates. The guy at my local stereo shop said he could order one, so there are some on the market.
2. Different head units do support the steering wheel controls, just have to check on the unit your interested in. The Alpine I'm going to buy does.
3. You will lose the radio part of the red display. The rest will stay.
2. Different head units do support the steering wheel controls, just have to check on the unit your interested in. The Alpine I'm going to buy does.
3. You will lose the radio part of the red display. The rest will stay.
03-24-2004, 10:34 PM
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thanks for the reply.
so long as some of the display works, I guess I'm ok with it.
I was thinking of an Alpine, too, with an XM feature.
I just hope that the face plates come out nice. The mazda one looks good, it just doesn't sound good.
so long as some of the display works, I guess I'm ok with it.
I was thinking of an Alpine, too, with an XM feature.
I just hope that the face plates come out nice. The mazda one looks good, it just doesn't sound good.
03-25-2004, 07:22 AM
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Which Alpine unit would that be? I can't find anything on their website about using any of their head units with steering wheel controls. Or, is it any head unit with a remote can work?
03-29-2004, 05:06 PM
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I'd like to hear too, because as far as I know (so I could be wrong!), no aftermarket headunits can directly interface the steering mounted controls. Rather there are several aftermarket solutions that can connect your headunit to it in various ways... most seeming to be that it maps the controls to some IR control the headunit's remote and IR's the controls to the headunit.
Are there really non-custom mounting kit/faceplates for the M3, M6, and RX-8? I haven't seen or heard of one yet... but have heard of them being in development.
The red LED display is a big issues as you need it for the climate controls and clock, but that stuff is circut boarded to the faceplate of the console. So I'd like to see/know how these companies are getting around that... have they managed to reverse engineer the LED display???
Are there really non-custom mounting kit/faceplates for the M3, M6, and RX-8? I haven't seen or heard of one yet... but have heard of them being in development.
The red LED display is a big issues as you need it for the climate controls and clock, but that stuff is circut boarded to the faceplate of the console. So I'd like to see/know how these companies are getting around that... have they managed to reverse engineer the LED display???
03-30-2004, 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Japan8
I'd like to hear too, because as far as I know (so I could be wrong!), no aftermarket headunits can directly interface the steering mounted controls. Rather there are several aftermarket solutions that can connect your headunit to it in various ways... most seeming to be that it maps the controls to some IR control the headunit's remote and IR's the controls to the headunit...
I'd like to hear too, because as far as I know (so I could be wrong!), no aftermarket headunits can directly interface the steering mounted controls. Rather there are several aftermarket solutions that can connect your headunit to it in various ways... most seeming to be that it maps the controls to some IR control the headunit's remote and IR's the controls to the headunit...
But like he said, there have been aftermarket devices that use the IR interface, or an interface that plugs into the head unit for makers like Sony, which have a wired remote.
---jps
03-30-2004, 10:56 AM
#9
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Just as a side note, I just ripped mine all apart to hack the CD-AUX in trick and noticed a few things about the controls and faceplate. The faceplate includes all of the radio controls, but the PCB that the controls connect to also connect most of the AC controls. Only the fan speed selector dial is separately wired. I think even if the AC works without the radio controls plugged-in (via 16 or so blade connectors on the face plate) then you would still have to have the PCB and wiring from faceplate still attached even if no longer in the faceplate. I could be wrong, but I think this is the case.
To summarize, radio controls and face plate may be permanently removeable but printed circuit board about the same size as the faceplate would have to remain somewhere along with new faceplate and head unit. Any thoughts to the contrary?
Wingnut
To summarize, radio controls and face plate may be permanently removeable but printed circuit board about the same size as the faceplate would have to remain somewhere along with new faceplate and head unit. Any thoughts to the contrary?
Wingnut
03-30-2004, 11:21 AM
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blue flash...
not everyone can go with the Bose system like you. People who are 6' and above (like myself) have to pass on the GT package for fear of hitting our heads on the roof when we hit bumps... or we are already hitting our heads. So no sunroof for us...
That being said... all those posts on how crappy the BOse system is... is BS. One person even said their Protege5 sounded better. I've got a Protege5 and I've test the 8 twice. Sorry... the Bose sounds MUCH better. Ignore all comments and try it out yourself... form your own opinion. Mine is that... yeah my system in my high school car with 2 punch 12" was MUCH better... but hey for a high-end factory stereo the Bose system sounds pretty decent to me.
not everyone can go with the Bose system like you. People who are 6' and above (like myself) have to pass on the GT package for fear of hitting our heads on the roof when we hit bumps... or we are already hitting our heads. So no sunroof for us...
That being said... all those posts on how crappy the BOse system is... is BS. One person even said their Protege5 sounded better. I've got a Protege5 and I've test the 8 twice. Sorry... the Bose sounds MUCH better. Ignore all comments and try it out yourself... form your own opinion. Mine is that... yeah my system in my high school car with 2 punch 12" was MUCH better... but hey for a high-end factory stereo the Bose system sounds pretty decent to me.
03-30-2004, 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Wingnut
Just as a side note, I just ripped mine all apart to hack the CD-AUX in trick and noticed a few things about the controls and faceplate. The faceplate includes all of the radio controls, but the PCB that the controls connect to also connect most of the AC controls. Only the fan speed selector dial is separately wired. I think even if the AC works without the radio controls plugged-in (via 16 or so blade connectors on the face plate) then you would still have to have the PCB and wiring from faceplate still attached even if no longer in the faceplate. I could be wrong, but I think this is the case.
To summarize, radio controls and face plate may be permanently removeable but printed circuit board about the same size as the faceplate would have to remain somewhere along with new faceplate and head unit. Any thoughts to the contrary?
Wingnut
Just as a side note, I just ripped mine all apart to hack the CD-AUX in trick and noticed a few things about the controls and faceplate. The faceplate includes all of the radio controls, but the PCB that the controls connect to also connect most of the AC controls. Only the fan speed selector dial is separately wired. I think even if the AC works without the radio controls plugged-in (via 16 or so blade connectors on the face plate) then you would still have to have the PCB and wiring from faceplate still attached even if no longer in the faceplate. I could be wrong, but I think this is the case.
To summarize, radio controls and face plate may be permanently removeable but printed circuit board about the same size as the faceplate would have to remain somewhere along with new faceplate and head unit. Any thoughts to the contrary?
Wingnut
That being said... now why would you think that you have to keep a same size PCB in-place if you change the faceplate and stereo?? That is just silly. That's like saying all motherboards for the Intel P4 chip must be the same size. No... what must be done is providing whatever signal feedback, etc. that the system requires to work... that is a must.
Not having looked at it myself... going by what I see/hear here... you will have to make your own PCB that carries the necessary "innards" for the climate controls, and the clock plus display output. The LED is said to only be a dsplay... powered by the connetion to the combo system PCB.
What we need to know is... can you just bypass it all and connect the climate control output that goes into the HHU now, into the LED? What's going on with the clock? Where is run? Wil you have to build a clock if the faceplate is replaced? IS the CAN bus running through the car at all like the BMW I-bus this car has setup... thus the steering controls don't go directly to the HU, but instead into a "system bus" and the HU is just reading from that?? IF it is just normal signaling... how does it work... 2 wires a button... +/-, so you can just wire it up to a serial cable or USB cable?
MOre research is needed...
03-30-2004, 12:56 PM
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the only panel you have to replace is the piano black one surrounding the controls...you would keep the venting system, red led panel, and all intact...the one i'm currently working on in my (lack of) spare time is a carbon fiber replacement of the gloss (piano) black centre face plate. It will have the ability to house a 1DIN or a 2DIN aftermarket...the mounting is a B!TCH though...
Here is your answer to keeping the steering wheel controls..
http://www.autotoys.com/x/cust/produ...&cat=96&page=1
Here is your answer to keeping the steering wheel controls..
http://www.autotoys.com/x/cust/produ...&cat=96&page=1
Last edited by XeRo; 03-30-2004 at 01:01 PM.
03-30-2004, 04:41 PM
#14
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Japan 8,
Yes, you could remove the existing PCB and replace with your own custom engineered smaller PCB to interface the AC controls with the display unit and the CAN bus to the CPU. Preferable with OEM connector on both input and output for plug and play capability, clock driver circuit and AC display circuit, also interface to CD/MP3 play display would be nice too. Let me know when you finish.
XeRo,
Short of developing the flux capacitor, I think you could keep the existing PCB behind the that intefaces the AC controls with the display, head unit, and bus, You could just relocate it maybe horizontal below the new DIN chassis you propose.
I'm not saying it is impossible. IMHO I don't think it is realistic for 99% (did I say 99%, I meant 99.99%) of the DIYers or shops to eliminate the PCB behind the control panel (the PCB to which I refer is ONLY behind where the head unit controls are, including the bottom right and left corners beside the MP3/MD half circle piano black, there is no PCB behind AC controls). The area where AC controls are has just those buttons and temp dial connected via ribbon cable into the bottom of the HU control panel PCB. From the PCB it connects to a cable that runs along the side of the chassis around the back and into a wiring harness connector. Anyone can replace the panel, some can Bondo away, fewer still can put in a pretty screen run a carputer, but very very few can integrate controls factory AC electronic controls (I don't mean the steering wheel controls those are easy).
Good luck,
Wingnut
Party Pooper
By the way, if you are feeling adventurous, check out the head unit chips for information on the CAN bus, I list the chips and link to the data sheets (books) here:
Head Unit Thread
Yes, you could remove the existing PCB and replace with your own custom engineered smaller PCB to interface the AC controls with the display unit and the CAN bus to the CPU. Preferable with OEM connector on both input and output for plug and play capability, clock driver circuit and AC display circuit, also interface to CD/MP3 play display would be nice too. Let me know when you finish.
XeRo,
Short of developing the flux capacitor, I think you could keep the existing PCB behind the that intefaces the AC controls with the display, head unit, and bus, You could just relocate it maybe horizontal below the new DIN chassis you propose.
I'm not saying it is impossible. IMHO I don't think it is realistic for 99% (did I say 99%, I meant 99.99%) of the DIYers or shops to eliminate the PCB behind the control panel (the PCB to which I refer is ONLY behind where the head unit controls are, including the bottom right and left corners beside the MP3/MD half circle piano black, there is no PCB behind AC controls). The area where AC controls are has just those buttons and temp dial connected via ribbon cable into the bottom of the HU control panel PCB. From the PCB it connects to a cable that runs along the side of the chassis around the back and into a wiring harness connector. Anyone can replace the panel, some can Bondo away, fewer still can put in a pretty screen run a carputer, but very very few can integrate controls factory AC electronic controls (I don't mean the steering wheel controls those are easy).
Good luck,
Wingnut
Party Pooper
By the way, if you are feeling adventurous, check out the head unit chips for information on the CAN bus, I list the chips and link to the data sheets (books) here:
Head Unit Thread
Last edited by Wingnut; 03-30-2004 at 04:44 PM.
03-30-2004, 06:29 PM
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I'm sorry, but I don't believe in doing half *** work. II really don't think it will be possible to cram a 2DIN PCB (my understanding of the size) in with whatever 2DIN HU you are installing. not unless by some miracle the behind the faceplate is LARGER than 2DIN...
Again I laid things out in this manner NOT for DIY installations, but some have expressed an interested in making a console faceplate or having one made for them and offering this out to the community. If you are going to do so, you can't have any difficult DIY stuff for the install and the install needs to be clean. So again... reusing the old PCB is NG. If you're going to sell a kit, do it right... Like you mentioned... it all needs to be plug and play.
You're hardly a pary pooper... you just give up because the mountain looks too tall to you. that same thinking says you can't crack the DVD code, because manufacturers, etc. need it secure to make their money. Opps... someone did it, didn't they. Cracking this nut isn't easy, nor will it happen overnight... but it sure as hell isn't impossible.
Again I laid things out in this manner NOT for DIY installations, but some have expressed an interested in making a console faceplate or having one made for them and offering this out to the community. If you are going to do so, you can't have any difficult DIY stuff for the install and the install needs to be clean. So again... reusing the old PCB is NG. If you're going to sell a kit, do it right... Like you mentioned... it all needs to be plug and play.
You're hardly a pary pooper... you just give up because the mountain looks too tall to you. that same thinking says you can't crack the DVD code, because manufacturers, etc. need it secure to make their money. Opps... someone did it, didn't they. Cracking this nut isn't easy, nor will it happen overnight... but it sure as hell isn't impossible.
Last edited by Japan8; 03-30-2004 at 06:51 PM.
03-30-2004, 06:37 PM
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Flipping this around...let's look at it another way... apparently the HU is the same "modular" unit as the ones used before in the Miata, Protege5, etc. meaning OverLOAD's AUX unit should work in it as well. If that is truly the case, then how complicated is this really?
I checked out that link you left Wingnut... good stuff.
Hell... if I have time today, I'll pull apart my Familia (P5) and check out the climate controls... seeing what kind of changes there are... where is the PCB, if any for it. How does it work?.. etc. At first glance the HU looks to be easily exchanged with any 2DIN unit.
I checked out that link you left Wingnut... good stuff.
Hell... if I have time today, I'll pull apart my Familia (P5) and check out the climate controls... seeing what kind of changes there are... where is the PCB, if any for it. How does it work?.. etc. At first glance the HU looks to be easily exchanged with any 2DIN unit.
Last edited by Japan8; 03-30-2004 at 06:59 PM.
03-31-2004, 12:27 AM
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Here are some sites I've run across... hopefully they prove to eb useful...
http://www.gweep.net/~sfoskett/miata/nbaudio/index.html
http://www.mymx6.com/MyMazda6Page.htm
http://www.mazda6club.com/forums/read.php?TID=17206
http://www.mazda6club.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10380
from the MAZDA6 Forum...
There isn't much to the board, I just copied the factory one. I had to relocate the factory circut board to a small aluminum chassis (project box) under the driever's seat. I then made my own molex connectors and a 32 pin cable (thats 128 pins than have to be soldered if anyone's counting!!) to connect my new circut board to the OEM board and then back up to the original connector for the heating system. (The electronics were harder than the molding). Now the circuts are multiplexed so you have to re-create the same resistance values at you switches. The lighting and LED's were easy, just relocate them. The color is actually a VW color from a late 80's model. I cannot remember, the can is at work. The color match was hard because it is not a shiny finish as we all know, it is a "satin" like finish. So after using SEM plastic surgery to do my mold, and then icing to finish. I had to use SEM texture coat, 400 grit sandpaper and some inventive spraying techniques to get the texture correct. Like I said 45 hours in total. It isn't much considering I am in around 300 hours on the entire sound system. I will have my own website showcasing all my installs from work, including this one in the next couple of months. I will let everyone know when it is up and running.
If anyone is interested in mabey paying to have this done, I can do this no prob. I can purchase a new dash piece, my cost on them is cheap. Or you can send my your original one. Then all you have to do is install your new deck, mount the relo-box under a seat and hook up the cables. But to be warned it's not the cheapest thing in the world, but I think we can all agree it looks better than the molded kit for the pocket above our stereos!
http://www.mazda6club.com/forums/read.php?TID=16952
PICS http://www.mazda6club.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10299
http://www.gweep.net/~sfoskett/miata/nbaudio/index.html
http://www.mymx6.com/MyMazda6Page.htm
http://www.mazda6club.com/forums/read.php?TID=17206
http://www.mazda6club.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10380
from the MAZDA6 Forum...
There isn't much to the board, I just copied the factory one. I had to relocate the factory circut board to a small aluminum chassis (project box) under the driever's seat. I then made my own molex connectors and a 32 pin cable (thats 128 pins than have to be soldered if anyone's counting!!) to connect my new circut board to the OEM board and then back up to the original connector for the heating system. (The electronics were harder than the molding). Now the circuts are multiplexed so you have to re-create the same resistance values at you switches. The lighting and LED's were easy, just relocate them. The color is actually a VW color from a late 80's model. I cannot remember, the can is at work. The color match was hard because it is not a shiny finish as we all know, it is a "satin" like finish. So after using SEM plastic surgery to do my mold, and then icing to finish. I had to use SEM texture coat, 400 grit sandpaper and some inventive spraying techniques to get the texture correct. Like I said 45 hours in total. It isn't much considering I am in around 300 hours on the entire sound system. I will have my own website showcasing all my installs from work, including this one in the next couple of months. I will let everyone know when it is up and running.
If anyone is interested in mabey paying to have this done, I can do this no prob. I can purchase a new dash piece, my cost on them is cheap. Or you can send my your original one. Then all you have to do is install your new deck, mount the relo-box under a seat and hook up the cables. But to be warned it's not the cheapest thing in the world, but I think we can all agree it looks better than the molded kit for the pocket above our stereos!
http://www.mazda6club.com/forums/read.php?TID=16952
PICS http://www.mazda6club.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10299
Last edited by Japan8; 03-31-2004 at 12:53 AM.
03-31-2004, 08:26 AM
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that's what i was looking at...this is the part i think most people who are looking to do this don't understand...when "we" (the collective few who know this) say INTEGRATED, we mean INTEGRATED...this is a PITA..MAJORLY.....i pulled the top cover off and i can fabricate a small aluminum box to house the PCB in but this would render useless for those with Nav...it's going to be extremely time consuming and i haven't even given thought about costs if I provide this to other members...Mazda did a number with this one...it's not pretty guys...i hate systems like this...it's kinda like buying a Dell, HP computer...the audio and video are integrated into the Mobo...i hate this...terrible design..but costs less...oh well...
03-31-2004, 09:43 AM
#20
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Yep. This is some serious $hit. I'm a believer now...the box job is probably what it's going to have to be unless Metra or someone can punch out their own kit to sell to the masses (I wouldn't hold me breath).
What do you think about this...
PCB in the navi area for non-navi people
PCB in alumi case under the passenger's seat for navi people
Do you think both should have the case, or can those sticking it in the navi area get away with no box?
What do you think about this...
PCB in the navi area for non-navi people
PCB in alumi case under the passenger's seat for navi people
Do you think both should have the case, or can those sticking it in the navi area get away with no box?
03-31-2004, 03:15 PM
#21
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you could get away with it becuase you're essentially getting away from it in it's current locale...i would for just $hit's and giggles put it in a box just to be "safe". i wish Metra would look into this...for the simple fact that I don't own a stereo shop anymore and I don't have a lot of the necessary devices and tools needed for fabrication of such things needed to go into developing this at a faster rate...this is probably the reason why companies such as Metra haven't eluded to developing anything yet just because of the enormous undertaking it requires...i have taken my dash apart at least 6 times already and taken the center faceplate and all components off to get a feel of how everything needs to be integrated..it's going to be a long time until I get something tangible that is worth a $hit...
04-01-2004, 04:19 AM
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Well I suppose you could look at it this way... if you can build a quality 1DIN and 2DIN faceplate for the M3, M6, and RX-8 before Metra can... you'd have quite a number of customers. Reverse engineering and building an entirely new smaller PCB... OUCH!
OH... BTW out of curiousity.... how much space is there where the stock HU is?
OH... BTW out of curiousity.... how much space is there where the stock HU is?
04-01-2004, 09:05 AM
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oh no no no...i won't be doing the PCB remake deal...LOL...my wife would kill me for undertaking another time consuming project...
I haven't measured the actual space behind the HU but from the looks of it I would say you have a good 8" or so...it's not that tight of a fit as i've seen in most cars..
I haven't measured the actual space behind the HU but from the looks of it I would say you have a good 8" or so...it's not that tight of a fit as i've seen in most cars..
04-02-2004, 02:42 AM
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Uh oh... I should have read further on....
From Mazda6 Club forum
Yes the display above the vents goes dead when the OEM deck is removed. The deck generates the display protocols. Not a big deal to me, for I do not have the auto heating system and mine didn't display anything up there anyway. So really all I lost was ambient temp, but my new deck displays ambient temp. So no loss. To keep the display up top running can be done, but with much more massive electronic modification to the OEM deck. For mine though, I removed the guts of the upper display and am in the middle of building two LED displays that will match the OEM color that I will mount up there that are going to display system voltage and amplifier temp. The four buttons up there are going to control lighting and other accessories using latching relays.
So maybe particularly for the car computer guys, is to just replace the whole LED with one controlled by the PC (search for it on mp3car.com)... dunno... this thing is pretty damn daunting...
From Mazda6 Club forum
Yes the display above the vents goes dead when the OEM deck is removed. The deck generates the display protocols. Not a big deal to me, for I do not have the auto heating system and mine didn't display anything up there anyway. So really all I lost was ambient temp, but my new deck displays ambient temp. So no loss. To keep the display up top running can be done, but with much more massive electronic modification to the OEM deck. For mine though, I removed the guts of the upper display and am in the middle of building two LED displays that will match the OEM color that I will mount up there that are going to display system voltage and amplifier temp. The four buttons up there are going to control lighting and other accessories using latching relays.
So maybe particularly for the car computer guys, is to just replace the whole LED with one controlled by the PC (search for it on mp3car.com)... dunno... this thing is pretty damn daunting...
04-02-2004, 10:12 PM
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ECU
wow, I went away on vacation and there's a whole bunch of stuff I need to catch up on:
so here's the other twist: I brought this up to my buddy who's a Porsche technician.
Now, this isn't a Porsche, however, he told me that many of the new cars, when looking at diagnostic codes, the signals go through the radio. If you put an aftermarket system on, the diagnostics go to the radio, don't recognize it, and stop there. This way, the technicians can't read the codes.
He didn't know if this was the case with Mazdas.
Anyone know, definitively if replacing the stock stereo will interfere with this? I could ask my dealer, but I think I'd just get that puzzled look
Thanks
so here's the other twist: I brought this up to my buddy who's a Porsche technician.
Now, this isn't a Porsche, however, he told me that many of the new cars, when looking at diagnostic codes, the signals go through the radio. If you put an aftermarket system on, the diagnostics go to the radio, don't recognize it, and stop there. This way, the technicians can't read the codes.
He didn't know if this was the case with Mazdas.
Anyone know, definitively if replacing the stock stereo will interfere with this? I could ask my dealer, but I think I'd just get that puzzled look
Thanks