olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Ok guys---i just installed the lotek centerpod with the imfamous Prosport gauges. Sweet setup. BUT---I am questioning the correctness of the oil and water temps. The oil pressure readings seem to be equal to my mechaical gauge so no problem with it. I had the pro comp autometer mechanical gauges before this swap over. Its the 1st time I have used electrical gauges.
The hook up went ok--no problems,-- everything seems to be working ok.
My coolant temps seem to be in the 160-170F range and never reached 180F by the gauge. I have the rb flash in which the fan ativates at 180F and it was turned on. I also KNOW that the engine coolant is warmer than 160-170 as the thermostat doesnt open until a little over 170F and in driving with my mechanical gauge fpr a yr--i just know. Same with the oil temps--seems to be reading 10-20 degress too low. I have the electricals installed into the same adaptors as I had the mechanical.
I have all 3 gauges power supply hooked into one source--would that matter? I dont think it should--but like I say this is my 1st electrical set.
Well---wtf?????
Any help?
I like the gauges but if they are not accuate--they I cant run them.
Olddragger

jskup1

iTrader: (7)

What adapters do you have. I know racing beat has you switch which port you use for the oil pressure and temp depending on if you are using electrical or mechanical gauges. I don't know why though. You also have to ground the coolant adapter. I don't have the RB Flash, but I do have the Mazsport cooling mod which activates the fans at 205 and runs them until temp is down around 180. I'm running the Autometer Nexus electrical gauges and this seems accurate. My oil pressure is usually about 20 degrees lower than the coolant until car is completely warmed up and then they pretty much match up at around 180 while cruising.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

have the rb ones. Everything is grounded as specified. The sensors themselves are from prosport--came with gauges.
Is that correct---ground the coolant ADAPTOR or did you mean ground the coolant sensor? The sensors are grounded.
thanks
OD

jskup1

iTrader: (7)

the instructions with the RB coolant adapter state to use a hose clamp, wrap it around the adapter, and with a wire, ground it. I really don't see any difference with grounding the sensor itself though. That would probably be better since you are most likely using teflon tape or sealing compound on the threads which would reduce your conductivity. Which hose do you have the adapter in?

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

Last week or so me and 2 other RX8's were out driving (one of which has the same exact gauge setup as I do) and we never topped 190 degree coolant temps even when it was 106 outside. Obviously that just isn't right. The third 8 was running much hotter (around 206F) with a different gauge setup.

We found out that the RB adaptor places the water temp sensor in the wrong hose basically. It doesn't get enough coolant flow to give an accurate reading. Try turning your heater all the way up and the fan on for a few seconds...it sucks but your gauge will automatically perk right up.

ProSport actually has an adaptor for the water temp that places it right in the main radiator hose where it gets constant coolant flow and will give a better reading.

I confirmed by gauge was about 10-20 degrees cooler by running my sCANalyser which showed my actual temps.

The RB adaptor just puts the sensor in the wrong place.

So it isn't the ProSport gauges fault, but rather the Racing Beat adaptor.

I'm going to spring for the BLITZ radiator hose that has a pre-formed place for the temp sensor already, making install a snap and no need for cutting

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

my other gauges at the exact same spot was accuate. what about the oil temps? What about those differences? wonder if it is some ssort of calibration difference?
Something is going on-- i will call prosports when i get a chance.
olddragger

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

that's odd. Hmmmm

My oil temp is a little cooler than normal come to think of it....

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

yep --the heater hose mount is a perfectly good location for a coolant temp adaptor. RB is not stupid. The ONLY drawback is that it will show the correct temp just a few seconds slower than if the sensor was on the radiator hose. All the coolant is constantly flowing---even in the heater core---whether you have the heat on or not.
I am wondering if it is a calibration issue---whether each gauge needs its on power/and or ground or what. My 1st time with electrical gauges.
olddragger

LabDad

Which port is your oil temp sensor in? According to the RB instructions it should be in the center port for an electrical sensor.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

oil sensor is in the correct position with in the adaptor.
Both my oil temp and coolant temps are 15-20 degrees cooler than other monitoring. The gauges warm up great, but after temps on the gauge to 140F then it slows and the inequities show.
I called Gleen at Pro Sports--seems to be a good guy--he is going to test some senders etc(they dont build the gauges) and get back with me this week.
A test he suggested would to measure the coolant with an actual thermometer and compare to the gauge. Someone just stick a thermometer down their radiator please? lol.
I dont think we are going to get anywere with this.
Therefore I will not recommend these gauges to anyone I know---at present. Lets see if they respond.
olddragger

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

ok spoke at lenght with Glenn at pro sports---nice guy and he got right on it. actually took a stock gauge down and ran it through a battery of tests and we discussed at lenght out problem. His gauge was right to a 2% error rate which is ok. Very good service---good person to deal with.
So I have a problem--so i got to testing around today after work. This is what i have found so far.
The gauges require 12V to work properly---we know ---right?
My power source is this--direct from the cigar lighter--NOT THE LIGHT. I hooked the gauges to that(and the white led lights--very little draw with those) and of course the senders draw their power from the gauge. I tested with a multi meter the volts at the sender(i wisely attached bullet connectors--hooray for me!!) All I got was 8.9. It didtnt matter if the engine was running or not. with the engine off I got 8.5 ---with the engine on I got 8.9. Looks like i am not getting enough volts. Now why is that? Damn if I know right now. I may end up getting power from the engine bay itself? Maybe I am getting 12 volts to the gauge but not 12 volts to the sender? Does the sender need 12 volts too?

Im crying--
Olddragger
Any advice?

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

i'd try to play around with the sensor grounding and the guage grounding and compare the coolant temp to the OBD-II coolant temp... if the sensor and the gauge do not have the same ground potential, you could have a problem

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

thanks rotor--im puzzled here. I did test the volts to the gauges themselves and it is a little over 12 volts. my grounds are good. these particular senders have their own ground wire also. I got the same volts when i grounded directly to the chassis/ The gauges also have grounds. they are all grounded to the same point. somehow the volts is dropping going through the gauge?
head scratching time.
olddragger

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

I ran my sCANalyser and it comfirms my water temp gauge is off by anywhere between 5 and 20 degrees cooler than what it should be.

To me it would make sense if the sending unit isn't getting 12 volts then it wouldn't operate at all, not send a partical reading.......but a better power harness maybe a thing to look into.

Just for reference this is how I wired my gauges:
Constant 12v: AUX fuse in the kick panel fuse box (orange wire)
Switch 12v: Ciggerette lighter power wire
Running lights 12v (to turn gauges to red): Cigg lighter LIGHT
Ground: To spot near the pedels for the gauges power harness

Maybe different places are needed? Hmmm

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

thanks for the input chickenwafer
question? if you have a constant power on to the gauges --wont that run your battery down if you don't drive your car for a few days?
one thing to mention on your light source (red one)--if you use your dimmer switch the gauges will not like it!
Seems to me that a differant power supply is not an answer as we are already supplying the gauges with 12V---the question in my mind is --does the senders req 12V? if they do then why are we loosing volts through the gauges? A differant power supply will not solve that.
Now if the senders are recieving the required voltage--then there is another problem------why didnt i stick with my mechanicals------live and learn i suppose. These gauges do look dang good---cant see them well in the daytime--but good enough.
olddragger

The Ace

Getting lower voltage than nominal should explain your problem all right.
Just forgo the lighter and go for the fuse box (no need to go to the engine bay). Find the two green thick wires and connect the gauges (solid green is constant +12V, white-green is switched +12V). For the senders, go to the main fuse, where you should get (after the relay) +12V, which should not drain your battery (unless you leave it standing for a couple of months)...

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

how do we do that when the power supply for the sender has to come from the gauge? Thats the way they are wired.
olddragger

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

i might be out to lunch on this seeing i don't have these gauges or the the wiring diagrams... but

The sender is either one of two things. Firstly, a thermocouple which converts a temperature into a small voltage. These are usually the 1 wire hook-up senders. The better way is an RTD which converts the temp into a resistance (the gauge sends out a small current and uses the voltage drop to figure out the temp). These are 2 or more wire hook-ups that usually have a harnass to connect to the gauge and to be accurate the ground needs to go back to the gauge...

i've never seen something in between like it sounds like the Pro-sports are.

In either event, I can't imagine that 12V should be put on the sender... the factory ECT sensor is an RTD as you can see the resistance curve in the factory workshop manual.

The Ace

That's even better, since you have only a single power coupling to perform. Just tap into the two thick green wires that I mentioned in my previous post. Solid green is constant +12V, white-green is switched +12V. Getting absolutely the correct voltage should take care of both the gauges' coils (for correct movement of the needles) and the correct amperage through the senders

I have used the same wires for powering my CarPC, and I am 99% certain that the amperage is more than enough to power these gauges in addition to anything else you might have (I have power seats, sunroof et al).

Georgia8er

Have you checked to make sure your voltmeter is reading correctly, olddragger? Hate to ask, but I've run into that with electronics before, especially a low battery in my multimeter has caused it.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

appreciate everyone's input. i thought it may help if i can explain the wiring on this setup.
the gauges themselves have 5 wires out the back via a haress
1- red power wire to the gauge for its power
2- green wire to the sender(coming from the gauge)
3- black wire for ground
4- daytime running light
5- nightime running light.
the 2 senders oil temp and water temp are identical. they have 2 wires on them. one is for the gauge hookup (green wire)and the other is for a ground. So the sender has it's own ground wire---ok.
I ran my power (red wire) to the gauges from the cigar lighter and i am getting over 12 V there---no problem with getting 12 Volts TO the gauges. No problems with the lights. no problems with the grounds. they all work fine.
The more I try to educate myself the more i am believing that the senders are designed to work on less than 12V and that the 8.5 they are receiving is the correct level.
The only thing left for me to do is to remove a sender and do the hot water test on it--using a thermometer as the standard. Damn --and I thought I had a free w/e.
Now if there is a low reading in comparasion to the standard--guess i will be selling some gauges. I hate that--because I really like the design and price!
Oh--to respond--borrowed a friends voltmeter and it read the same. Thanks for the suggest--always wise to check/verify readings.
olddragger

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

It sounds like they are RTD's so yes they do operate at a lower voltage.

Before selling them, try to ground them to the same ground as the sensor. Just a tenth of a volt difference between the two different grounding points will cause heartburn. Also since they are using resistance to determin temperature, take extra care if you have the sender wire spliced anywhere.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

yep common ground now.
the gauge wire to the sender is not spliced anywhere but they attached to additional wire through bullet conectors.
olddragger

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

that is additional wire to get to the sender. the oridginal wire wasnt long enough. (as most arent i guess)
olddragger

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

well--I cant make these gauges show accuate temps. If someone local (Georgia)wants them--i will sell.
I wonder if there are anyone out there that is getting accuate readings?
SPEAK UP!!
wwill start a thread
OD