kristopher_d

acer has a 10.1" tablet (the C300). Mount that at a slight rake away from you (in landscape format of course) and you're good to go. The field of vision on the tablets is really quite good.

All tablets come with 802.11 (microsoft requires that before they'll let an oem have the tablet O/S, and pcmcia slots, and usb. Get your ODBII through a USB serial interface. Check out Keyspan for those. Of course, you will need to purchase the GPS card separately, but then you get a choice of cards.

install the 12V powersupply behind the dash and run the cord up through the tray.

Anything smaller than a 10" display makes the PC part of the equation pointless. The screen will be too small with too low a resolution to run most navigation software. The old stuff required a minimum of 800X600. I'm sure most of the latest releases require 1024X768.

Again, just playing devils advocate. If I'm going to spend the kind of money we're talking about, It's gotta be portable.

Omicron

Besides the size, the main problem I see with a tablet PC (or even a laptop for that matter) is that they would not truely be integrated into the car. Most of the car's functionality that could be connected to the PC's display (GPS, sensors, gauges, whatever) would have to connect to a serial or USB port. So you'd wind up with the tablet/laptop with a gagillion dongles hanging off of it - not exactly esthetically pleasing. Course, you could set up some sort of a docking station, which would help... but then you have the problem with the unit being a target for theft.

Sputnik

Integration would be paramount for me, otherwise you are inviting someone to break in and take it, and it will be very awkward to remove the tablet PC and hide the mount and wires when you do take it, so as not to attract bad elements.

Another concern of mine would be that it would get in the way of either you accessing the car's controls, or in the way of anyone in the passenger seat.

An integrated unit would also include more integrated controls, and custom interfaces which will be easier to use while operating the car, meaning it will require less of your attention, and be safer.

More importantly, it would take a bit of work to secure the tablet PC well enough so that it does not become airborne in the event of an accident. I may have missed it, but I have yet to see any acceptable mounts.

These are the same concerns I have with a handheld GPS unit vs. integrated, but on a larger scale (more space, weight, and more involved).

---jps

kristopher_d

Many tablets will accept a VESA mount. Many VESA mounts are good for 100lb in a static environment. I guess if integration is the primary concern, then mounting a computer in your trunk is worth $1700 per car. Again, I've got 3 cars and would like to have the same functionality in all of them without spending another 6K

Sputnik

That's the thing, this isn't a static environment. Although it's only for a split-second, the G-forces generated in even a minor accident could cause a notebook computer to snap something that's rated at 100 lbs. That's why seatbelt mounts are made of a minimum grade 8 hardware, and need to handle thousands of pounds of fource. And don't forget, you're talking about lateral forces, so just because something can hold up 100 lbs doesn't mean that it can handle that force laterally (if I understand what you meant about the VESA mounts).

I can certainly understand and appreciate the desire to use the same equipment among several cars. Not only would this be less expensive (both in initial hardware and software license costs, and subsequent software upgrade/update costs for the OS, NAV data, etc.), but one would only have to spend the time and effort to load, customize, and maintain one system (not only OS stuff, but the music, saved emails, etc.). If you are the only person who drives those vehicles, that would work fine. But if a spouse also drove those vehicles, they would be without the use of the equipment, and any functions like gas mileage and sensor logging would be incomplete and inaccurate.

There is a compromise, though. One could have the touchscreen and other input/display devices integrated in the car, and have a "docking station" somewhere secure like the trunk of each vehicle for the computer itself. While you would have to spend more money to install each of the screens, etc., you wouldn't be replicating the more expensive computer and software license items.

---jps

kristopher_d

Good points.

Of course, as long as some computer were plugged in, a vehicle user could keep their settings regardless of car, then synchronize all data between systems through a server setup.

Gudlyf

One concern I haven't seen brought up yet (I think) with this whole idea of mounting a PC in the trunk is handling the heat. On a summer day in New England I wouldn't be surprised if it got to over 110-degrees in there. That can't be good for the CPU, memory or hard drive. How are you planning to handle that?

The Tablet PC idea -- sorry to say -- sounds a heck of a lot more practical. It's in the cockpit with you getting the cooling benefits of the AC, and when it's time to upgrade you're not taking apart components in the trunk. You can usually tap off the power of the cigarette lighter to power it if need be, get PCMCIA 802.11b devices and even USB hubs, etc. Pretty much has what you'd need, and cheaper.

kristopher_d

no need for pcmcia 802.11b for a tablet. wi-fi is mandatory to carry the tablet pc O/S and trademark.

RotorMotor

I'm by no means discounting the tablet as an option. For those who would rather have the mobility, it's a great product. I plan to offer a product for those that would rather have an integrated, dash mounted computer as opposed to a tablet in the passenger seat with a power cord running to the cigarette lighter.

Your point about heat is well taken. The mounting position hasn't been finally determined yet and may well be under the passenger seat. I honestly don't have much experience with machines running in small spaces, I usually work in refrigerated server rooms. One of the major reasons for choosing the Via processor is that it generates an extremely low amount of heat. We'll see how the tests go....

Sputnik

Heat would be a consideration, but it shouldn't be too much of a stumbling block. Just like with a notebook, most of the pieces used with this kind of setup will be low-power, and won't give off huge amounts of heat. We run amps in areas like the trunk, and they put off as much heat as a notebook. So one should be able to make it work.

---jps

bobclevenger

Bear in mind that the trunk (boot) area is directly above the (HOT) exhaust system

fxdsconv2000

Any updates?

GeckoRx8Xtreme

RotorMotor,
Any test done???

RotorMotor

Unforutuantely, no, there haven't been any tests at this point. I recently had a death in the family and have been dealing with that which has put a bit of a damper on getting things finished up. At this point, everything is ready to be installed, it's just a matter of finding the time to put it in. On top of that, I'm moving this month which is always an interruption.

The machine is done with the exception of the ODB-II functionality. There is some exciting work being done by some other forum members that can be integrated. As many of you are probably aware, OverLOAD is developing an aux-in module that will replace the need for an RF modulator. He's also building a CAN bus transceiver that will include digital gauges (ala the Mazdaspeed gauges on the nav system). Extremely cool stuff.

I will hopefully be installing everything the second weened in February (knock on wood). Thanks for the inquiries. I'll let you know as soon as I have something to show.

Japan8

I hope that no one minds my jumping in like this, particuarly at this point in development, but looking at what's being done... it's rather exciting. It has also got me thinking about some possiblities...

Here are some thoughts from across the ocean...

The motorized/non-motorzied 1-din navi unit has obviously been available here for quite some time now (well really 2-din as the DVD/CD unit mounts separately). However, I have been very turned off by them as it ruins the "factory" look. I imagine that I'm not the only one who feels this way. However there are also complete in-dash units available aftermarket as well that don't necessarily use a touch screen, but the screen is the front panel of the unit. It fully mounts in the place of your stock 2-din space. These units have a navi DVD/CD slot and a CD player slot in addition to MD player (depending on the unit). I personally find this form factor more appealing.

How much space is available behind the stereo inside the dash? Does anyone know much extra there is beyond the size of the OEM stereo? It would be nice to have a 100% drop-in unit, however, I have a feeling that it isn't going to fit in that area. But that's ok if the CPU unit size can be kept to an absolute minimum for under the passenger seat or trunk mounting.

Regarding trunk mounting... yes using mobile components saves on electricity needed and also heat output. Yes, many stereo amps don't have fans and put out some decent heat. But you should also know that higher-end (read more powerful) amps do have integrated cooling fans and/or people add fans to their install to keep the temp down. So... those of us who have worked with 1U servers, FWs, etc. know those tiny fans are loud (due to the high RPM). Thus I'd recommend skipping those for squeezing in one flat but large fan.

As I mentioned an in-dash rather than pop-up mounted screen may be preferrable (market survey?) for many who prefer to keep the clean factory look... thus the removal of the OEM stereo and the necessity of integrating a tuner and amp to power the stock 6 speakers at least. You might be thinking about the increasing complexity, etc., however this becomes another selling point as you also include RCA outputs for those like eXcentic who would like to go for a higher-end system with amps and subs.

Regarding wireless capabilities... there are some things that everyone seems to be forgetting. As Japan is the world's largest cell phone market and has the latest in cell phone techonolgy... it stands to say that it is a future view of what's coming to other markets. Integrated cell phone for internet access may not be the best idea. For some here it makes perfectly good sense, however, if anyone is thinking of the broader market... it doesn't. Who want to have a cell phone bill and ISP bill for their car and their handheld?

Using Windows XP? Even if Embedded XP certain... drawbacks. Advantages are easy to use and setup... little work needed for you... however... there is cost among things to think of. Also complexity of the interface.

There is more, but I don't know if anyone is listening or interested, cares or whatever in what I've been saying thus far. For anyone who is... I have a few resources that I may be able to tap here for things such as LCD's... from the original marker. Sharp doesn't make those screens you're buying! PM me if this is getting your attention...

serff

What happend to the good ol days of open sourcing your project and having a bunch of people working on it? I would love to help out with something like this, however, I don't have the knowledge of things like the ODBII interface, working with touch screens, etc. On the other hand, I have been a java developer for over 4 years now and love to help. So maybe you can think about opening your project to the rest of the community. Maybe we will see even more cool ideas coming out of it that way too.

As for some of the other comments, I recently saw another in car project where they just mounted a laptop on a shelf on the top of the trunk. Another intresting part of this project was that it was done on a Mac. This has many benifits to it as well, including built in Voice commands, wireless, etc. I realize that you are way too far down the road in development to change hardware/OS, but just wanted to throw that out there.

One more question, I think i remember you saying you were going to include wireless internet with some service. What service were you going to use for this?

Keep up the great work and keep us updated!

serff

moatz

I just had a look at the website and under the Photo Gallery there is a picture of the Hyprid PC. This reminds me of an earlier version of the Cappuccino Mini PC or something like that from a couple of years, ago.

RotorMotor

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys. Japan8, love the ideas and I'm actually looking for a good carbon fiber molder in my area as we speak to create a mold to replace the stereo with the screen which will also require building an AM/FM tuner into the PC. I'm going to continue with the original plan of using the nav tray, but I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now and finally decided it would be a better solution. The screen fits in the space between the top of the climate control ***** and the bottom of the hazard light button almost perfectly. I've been extremely busy for the past few days, but will post more information as soon as I can (hopefully tonight).

Japan8

RotorMotor...
No prob. There is actually a lot more, but... as I am considering making this into a large scale business I can only toss out but so many of them. What you've got going so far sounds cool! You're using the mini-ITX, right? What are you doing for the AM/FM tuner? What are you using for a DVD/CD drive?

Don't forget... if you are replacing the OEM stereo, you'll need to wire this into the Bose system (could be a serious pain). using the Bose, I dunno if you'll need an amp at the head unit, but for non-bose systems you will have to cover that part as well.

Keep us posted on how it develops.

Japan8

Oh... that new Pioneer unit is sick. Motorized popup touch screen and the DVD/CD drive all in 1DIN. Plus when the screen is retracted it looks and displays like a regular 1DIN head unit... controls mounted like a regular stereo as well (meaning not all touch screen). But the price... OUCH! Pioneer is raping people on profit...

hootersam

RotorMotor,

What do you plan on doing for power to the PC you install? Adding an inverter or installing one that runs off of 12VDC?

RotorMotor

Damn it Japan8!!! I no longer have any intention of using the nav tray (and it's all your fault! :D) which means it's going to put off installation for another few weeks is is going to **** a bunch of thus-far patient people off. I found a guy over the weekend that can do the carbon fiber fabrication, but I have yet to meet with him (he's a good 45 minute drive away).

I was also thinking about building a business out of this, but since Microsoft has already alluded major in-car computing plans over the next few years and the fact that building clean installations for various makes and models would get rediculously time consuming and expensive I think I'll limit any sales to people on this board that are interested.

Yes, it's mini-ITX. There will be a slim-line CDRW/DVD drive mounted in the glove compartment in addition to the one in the case. There used to be many PCI based AM/FM tuners available. I haven't looked around yet, but I'm sure I'll be able to find something easily.

As far as the Bose system goes, I'm going to gut it. I didn't really like it that much in the first place. I'll be routing the sound from the PC directly into amps that'll output to new speakers.

hootersam, I'm using a specialized power supply that uses DC current. It also boots the computer up and puts it into hibernate mode when you turn the car on and off as well as monitors the battery power and shuts the PC down if the battery gets too low.

RotorMotor

Oh, Japan8, can you post a link to that Pioneer HU?

Japan8

Here is the Pioneer link...
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...561472,00.html

And you've got a P/M coming...

fxdsconv2000

Are there any plans for a basic setup with a PDA?