joseh

Checkout this hybrid PC.
http://www.hybrid-mobile.com

It appears they are working on a prototype RX-8 install of this system:
http://www.hybrid-mobile.com/forum/i...ct=ST&f=3&t=5&

Cool!

Not sure if he has received the 8 though, since the last post is on May 5 2003. But looks promising!

Omicron

Oh man, this really brings out the Hyper-nerd in me, and makes me drool. Almost sounds too good to be true... and for sure, sounds exPENsive!

For those of you who don't want to follow the links (and lemme tell ya, that first "main" link is a very flashy, cool website that winds up being almost impossible to navigate, even for a nerd like me!) here is a synopsis of what they're planning, taken from their forums:
Yowsa!

Mazda man

Oh man, that is so cool. Very expensive no doubt, but would be really amazing to have.

alphapenguin

i dont see the functionality in having a CDRW in a car. The WIFI ideal is pretty cool, allowing instant transfer of MP3s. Assuming a nav system is functional with this set up, or can be tapped, that would be really cool too. I was thinking about putting a computer in my car too, but after thinking about it, I realized it was kinda pointless, but the fact taht this PC can integrate and display gauges and etc is cool (something I wouldnt be able to do myself obviously). Anyone have a price? The specs for that type of PC I would assume is around $500 (1.2 celeron etc..).

DeeJay Pico

I have in my rover.... and i install in my new rx8... after i have...

The pc, in question have a low performance, my pc are one mini-itx epia M10000 and the performance are cool... i can watch a dvd, pay a mp3, play a game... and other... after install i post the photo.... but my new car don't arrive for next 1/2 month....

Sputnik

The thing about putting a PC in a car is that it already works with innumerous programs and devices. The PC will work with off-the-shelf drives, monitors, and input devices, and off-the-shelf programs.

So things like adding a DVD player or your choice of GPS mapping programs (pick the one you like best, instead of putting up with whichever one the factory choose) is very straightforward. Adding ANY kind of connectivity like WI-FI or cellular based (or even have a 100baseT plug for major downloads/uploads when parked in your garage) is very simple, and upgrades/patches are easily available. You use a DVD-RW or CD-RW drive instead of a DVD or CD drive so that you can read rewritable discs, and because it's not that much more expensive. Plug your PDA in and synchronize it using it's WI-FI or other connectivity.

Then, any custom function you want is relatively straightforward to install. Custom graphics on the screen, custom menus, and custom controls can all be done with standard programming skills (which you can do, or cheaply have someone else do). Things like custom gauges can be easily done with sensors (or tapping into an existing sensor), and a basic interface to a serial or parallel port (an interface can handle hundreds of sensors), and some basic programming. Data-logging and playback is a natural. Mount a couple of cameras and record the video of an auto-x or road course circuit run, and playback the different views as you need them. You can easily embed specific guage data in the video stream even (like speed, G-forces, and things that will help you compare different runs on different setups).

Steering wheel buttons, the radio text readout in the RX8, climate controls, homelink controls, and remote radar detectors can all be interfaced with a PC rather simply. Some programming and sensors, and you can have climate control. Interface with the GPS program, and you can log where radar traps are. With cellular connectivity to the Internet, cars could provide realtime updates of radar traps to a site, which could be read by other cars driving in the same area. Even if it's just you driving around, you will be able to map out where every stationary photo-radar site is.

Even if you aren't interested in the performance side, you can keep track of much more than a "trip computer" ever could. Accurate gas mileage logging, and tied in with the GPS system, log which route to work is quicker/easier/more efficient. An interface with the OBDII system, and the computer will let you know exactly what problem the computer is picking up (instead of just flashing the check engine light).

Anyway, you get the idea. A PC allows for all of these "Pie-in-the-Sky" options and gadgets with already available parts and software. This means that an intrepid installer or owner can put these in without having to become an expert electrical engineer. The pieces/parts are already there with a PC, all you have to do is put them together.

---jps

Sea Ray

I am in the process of finding my 8 right now, thru my dealer. And the Nav system is on the list, should I wait? This sounds like a pretty cool concept, any cost guestimates yet?

Sputnik

I wouldn't wait for this system. Seeing as how difficult it is to retro-fit a factory NAV, I would suggest that you get it with the car. When you are ready to put in a mobile PC, you can re-use some of those pieces.

Mind you, there are several mobile PC units already available. Everything they list is available on a custom basis now, they're just wanting to put it together as a kit. You could either use the stock NAV hood to mount the display (which would be more stealth), or have a custom audio installer mount a screen in the location of the stock radio.

---jps

RotorMotor

Just thought I'd toss my hat in the mix. I'm a systems engineer/integrator as well. I'm approximately 2/3 done with an in-vehicle computer prototype and am, of course, using my RX-8 as the first demo car. Just to give you guys a hint at about how much you should expect to pay for something like this, I'm expecting to be able to sell a complete system (including the 7" LCD touch screen) for approximately $1700, $300 cheaper than the stock nav unit but you will get:

- DVD
- hard-drive based MP3 (140GB)
- Navigation
- Wireless Internet (a monthly service will still be required)
- ODBII
- Back-up camera

Most current in-car computers cost $2000+ without the screen. I'll keep you guys posted on the progress.

Edit: For the RX-8 I will have solutions for nav equipped and non-nav-equipped cars.... $2000 is a lot of money to spend on parts you plan to replace. Also, unlike a lot of car computers, this one is being designed form the chassis up with mobile computing specifically in mind. Many of the parts can be purchased but significant modifications need to be made to ensure proper voltage, shock dampening, etc.

Speed Racer

RotorMotor,
That sounds like an awesome setup. It would be nice if you could add a couple of more cameras (i.e. VUZ Concept One) and be able to record the video directly to the hard drive. Then be able to transfer it via WiFi to your home PC. That would make a sweet race cam setup.

RotorMotor

Speed,

You'll be able to add up to (hahaha, get this) 127 cameras to the system. If that's not race documentation, I don't know what the hell is! Of course, this will require a significant investment in cameras and a lot of wiring, but it could be done....

I'm also working on an application for us California folks (hopefully the rest of the country when services are available) to re-route the nav system based on monitoring real-time traffic. You would have to have an internet equipped PC, but that's my dream time-saver...

Edit: sorry, make that 126 cameras.

Eradicator

Oh man .... definitely PM me when this shxt comes out. I balked at the nav system because I figured a computer/lcd could be done. I didn't stop to think others were already doing the work for me

Of course I have a ton of questions about how you guys are integrating the units and input interfaces into the car. Should I fire them off here, or PM them?

Kev

Please make them public.

As long as the mute and volume on the steering wheel work, my goal is for voice interaction.

Imagine a custom voice interface...

You: Dobbie (key phrase/car name) Music
RX8: Your choice?
You: Rock, Rolling Stones
RX8: Playing

Commands like Music, Radio, Phone, Destination would all be sensible and achievable - imagination and a bit of voice training would be required...

Imagine...

You: Dobbie performance
RX8: Profile?
You: High power
RX8: ECU remapping in progress
<pause>
RX8: High power mode enabled

Eradicator

The reason I hesitate to ask here is they might not want to share too many specific design details while they're still developing the system. But I guess I can ask away and let them decide what to answer....

What kind of specs would the computer have and how large (physically) would it be? ... and where could you mount it? That sorta plays into where the DVD drive would be, as well as "front-panel" usb or firewire plugs.

Will the screen be retractable? Is it going to use a custom mold on the dash and use the empty space (for those of us w/o the factory Nav system) for retracting?

Even though you are using a touchscreen (and the voice command sounds sweet, too), what other input devices do you plan on using? I was originally thinking of cutting into the center console and mounting either a trackball or laptop touch-pad mouse where the stock Nav controller goes. Would you have a wireless keyboard/mouse/gyro (gyration mouse) for additional input?

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things ... but I'll shoot these off now.

RotorMotor

I don't mind sharing, particularly information that's not proprietary in any way.

Kev:
Voice activation/interaction is definitely in the plans. This will likely be in a later rev of the computer (not too far away though) and, of course, any computers that are deployed before it's available will be upgradable. While the idea of a voice chip for the ECU sounds cool it wouldn't be as easy as controlling other functions and could be dangerous (especially since Canzoomer's ECU controller requires that the car have time to "learn" the new maps).

Eradicator:
The size of the computer is approximately 12" x 10" x 3", slightly larger than a standard, trunk-mounted CD changer. It will mount in the trunk. You will have an external DVD or DVD/CD-RW drive mounted in the glove compartment and could additionally mount a USB hub there as well.

You will have the option of having a retractable screen or not. The retractable screen will use the aftermarket navigation tray (see Canzoomer's forum for info) and a fully motorized, retractable screen. The fixed screen will also use the navigation tray and will cost considerably less.

As far as input devices are concerened, that's the beauty of a modular design, you can add whatever you want. For example you could, like you mentioned, use a laptop-like touch-pad that permanently mounted in the console, a wireless optical mouse, a wireless gyro mouse, a small joystick similar to the stock navigation, etc. You could also rely entirely on the touchscreen and voice interaction or you could use a mini wireless keyboard or a flex keyboard that can be rolled up and stored in the glove compartment.

Any thing else, feel free to ask. And yes, I prefer keeping them public so I can just point to this thread instead of typing the same info over and over.... :D

eXentric

I'm in the process of ramping up for my own car PC with some of the features you've mentioned. It might be easier for me to wait, but it sounds like this might still be quite a ways off. Can you comment on a potential market date?

What are the current specs for the computer itself? Processor speed and type (P4, celeron, etc), memory size, hard disk size, video adapter?

I have another hobby project which involves 3D user interfaces. Will your PC support an AGP adapter?

Can I use my own display and simply pay less?

Thanks!

eXentric

What is the possibility of accessing the steering wheel controls?

Would it be possible to tap into the data bus on the head unit and convert it to a USB HID device?

What about displaying text on head unit display?

I've read that the head unit may be made by Pioneer and may use a standard control protocol. Is this something you're considering for your model?

Thanks again. Sorry I've come up with so many questions.

RotorMotor

eXentric,

The current specs include a 1GHz Via Epia motherboard. The motherboards have integrated processors. The advantages to this are that they are the mini-ITX form factor (nice and small), use a MUCH smaller amount of power than a full ATX PC would and can be operated without a fan (you don't want that humming interrupting your MP3 enjoyment do you?). Standard will be 512MB of RAM, but one of my major goals in this is to provide the end-user with the ability to completely customize the system the way they see fit (similar to Dell's approach). So, you want more RAM? No problem. You want a good quality soundcard, great, but if you want incredible sound through a SoundBlaster Extigy, even better. Hard drives will start at 40GB and grow from there. Unfortunately the mini-ITX machines generally do not support AGP, so unless I can find a fantastic new product out there before production starts, we'll most likely be looking at high-end PCI video.

Yes, you can absolutely use your own display and pay less.

The steering wheel interface was not my doing, that was Sputnik. That will require significant R&D time and I cannot comment on its feasability at this point. I'm not exactly sure what benefits it would yeild regardless since the audio of the computer will be played through the stock stereo those controls will function at least for volume and "mode" purposes just fine.

eXentric

Keep us posted. I may go ahead with my original plans, but I'm sure you will see some interest. As for the steering wheel controls, I mainly would like the ability to change tracks in a playlist from there. But, that can be accomplished via any other input method.

I understand all of the reasons for the hardware specs you are proposing, and I agree with them. They just may not quite fill my needs.

Keep up the great work!

P.S. Can you provide a link to the mainboard specs? I'm wondering what the on-board video is and if it has firewire / usb 2.0, etc. Thanks!

eXentric

Also, I don't think you replied to the time-to-market question (allthough that may have been intentionally avoided )

RotorMotor

eXcentric,

Thanks for the comments!

Here are the specs for the motherboard.
http://www.via.com.tw/en/VInternet/mini_itx.jsp

Yes, the time-to-market was intentionally left out. I have to be careful about the details that I give to abide by the forum advertsing rules but I expect to have the prototype finished and installed by the end of the month and to start shipping a month or so after.

By all means, if you do decide to go with your own project, feel free to ask any questions you like. I've done quite a bit research and would be happy to share (but only with fellow RX-8 owners who agree not to try to steal any of my market share )

eXentric

Great! Thanks for offering the help. And I understand your stance.

Just for the thread, I'm hoping I can have someone locally help me mold and turn my empty space (where the stock nav would be if I had it) into a 1-DIN slot. Once that's completed, I plan to use one of these two displays:

Display One

Display Two

RotorMotor, how do those compare to what you had planned? Can you offer similar quality for any cheaper? One of the two is motorized and the other is not. They are both 1-DIN slots, however, and I noticed in your earlier post that your solution would use the 'tray' approach but that it might be motorized. Can you elaborate on that at all?

Glad to see I'm not going at this alone!

RotorMotor

Absoultely. I've actually been narrowing down the screen selection to the GA-700Y-Y (your first display) and another similar product. The trick is to be able to buy them in high enough quantities that I can discount it below what DigitalWW and other vendors are selling them for since it will be included as part of a package. Unforutnately, I'm not much for the look of the GA-700Y-Y. Those buttons are ugly. The Lilliput screens (here) are absolutely beautiful (the screen itself and the display) but aren't motorized. I'll likely offer these as an option for the fixed screens and am using one for the prototype.

The motorized screen will require that the back of the nav tray be removed and will be installed as shown below.

I'm still waiting on the nav tray from Canzoomer but should have details by the middle of next week.

RotorMotor

Photo:

eXentric

Thats great news. So, have you already determined that the 1-DIN motorized display will fit in the area if mounted as depicted in that image?

I was a bit worried that it would extend back too far and cause a problem with the center speaker or that the tray wouldn't be wide enough. But, if you can make it work and if you manage to undersell them, I'd deffinately buy at least the display kit directly from you.

Dare I say, good minds think alike :D

** Edit **

Duh, I just read it again and noticed that you didn't have the tray yet so you most likely haven't been able to validate the installation that way. Let us know when you get a chance to try it will ya? Thanks again.