RX-Nut

Roll call for those who have an aftermarket alarm on your RX-8... Can't be Lojack though.. Hawaii dont got it. I just want to hear what kind of alarm you got and your experiences with it..

Anyone?

NoVa

I have the DEI Responder alarm. I love it and so far have no problems with it. Only problem is that it's a little bit more then usual alarms.

complex

clifford g5. very expensive, but they say its the best. so far so good. www.clifford.com

RX-Nut

cool thanks for some info.. so how did the install go.. did your installer have a hard time with the car being so new and all. And what happens to you current keyfob system? Is it still installed and you carry two fobs... ? Not sure..

complex

it comes with a replacement remote, they gave me 2 of them so you dont really have to carry the original.

huhsler

Compustar ( http://www.compustar.org ) SS with remote start.

Two way alarm system with all the trimmings. Little over a half-mile range, in practicality. If you want windows or sunroof, you'll need to do this: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=18120 .

Aside from that, the install went in clean, with no problems. I love it.

Replaces factory fobs.

RX-Nut

Thanks.. how much was the window motor that you needed to put in?

Anyone else? There has to be more guys out there with aftermarket (non lojack) alarms?? No? Maybe I'm wrong...

huhsler

The window motor had to be OEM Ford/Mazda. The part number specified Mazda RX-8 ONLY. Errrr! So, I went through Trussville for $65, shipped.

Btw, my buddy has a DEI Viper 791 XV WITH GPS locator on his RX-8 (shwing!) and the yearly services package. If he wants, he can make a phone call and remote start his car or unlock it from anywhere he wants. It uses traditional AMPS cell service, so coverage is pretty impressive.

Oh, he just nudged me and said that the GPS is a completely separate system that can be added on to any alarm system that can take +/- DEI-style actuator inputs (just about anything out there...except Compustar).

Just a note. The Matrix Responder RSX 3.5 is pretty much a re-packaged Viper 791XV. They are both VERY nice.

Good luck!

RX-Nut

Wow, that's cool... wonder how much that Viper cost..

I was thinking of trying the Compustar, but not sure how much it'll run me. I think we only have one dealer that installs them. The range is what caught my eye.

We'll see....

Sputnik

So, does that mean that if the car is stolen or carjacked, he can also call it up and have the alarm shut the car down?

---jps

huhsler

Both the Viper 791XV and the Matrix RSX 3.5 are around $500 (installed price at most Best Buy or Circuit City type places). DEI's new warranty plans now include the big chain stores for LIFETIME warranty!

Wow, shut the car down. That would be cool! Likely DOT laws would prohibit such a device, due to safety issues (imagine the car seizing on the highway!).

However, in the event of a car-jacking, since the key is probably with the alarm fob it would likely take priority anyway.

On the other hand, the GPS tracks anytime the car is on, so if the car is stolen, it can be tracked (even better than LoJack) to the thieves' hideout.
...even remote started there, to freak them out and mess with their heads!

huhsler

Oh, I did forget to mention that all of these systems, the Compustar AWSS, Viper 791XV, and Matrix RSX 3.5 all have remote start, as well. Big bonus. With the cold weather we've got in Virginia right now, it is really awesome!

Sputnik

No, it is not illegal. There have been setups like that which have been available for years.

And you don't have it just kill the engine by switching off the ignition or anything. That would be as much of a risk to your property and others. There are several ways to do it, but one way would be to cut out the ignition so that the engine stutters and loses significant power, but doesn't seize or anything. The car will gradually slow, and eventually the carjacker will give up, stop, and get out. Once the car stops, the system will then shut the engine off. This took some design work and integration for each car, though.

The RX8 with the electronically controlled throttle is perfect for this. All you would have to do is setup a relay between the gas pedal and the ECU. If I'm not mistaken, it's a relatively simple thing to mimic the gas pedal settings. In normal operation, you have the ECU connected to the gas pedal. When you want to shut the car down, you throw the relay, which then connects the ECU to a simple circuit that mimics the gas pedal in the "off" position (the reading when your foot is completely off the gas). The carjacker can floor the pedal all he wants, but the car will basically come to a controlled stop (or nothing more than a very very slow crawl).

---jps

mdw33333

Well, I've been in the auto security business for 10 years now and I'll tell you the most importnat thing you need to know- DEI is the best- hands down.

DEI manufactures Viper, Python, Sidewinder, Automate, and now Clifford and Avital. The Viper 791xv is the best security system on the market right now, however, as mentioned in a previous thread, the 791xv comes with remote start. Most RX8's are 6 speeds and shouldn't be equipped with remote start for obvious reasons. Any shop that would install a remote start on a standard shift vehicle is one that you should be leery of.

My advice for any RX8 owner is to have a Viper 690xv installed. It's the same system as a 791xv, without the remote start.

By the way, Compustar systems are crap. DEI is king of auto security and they are the worldwide leader in market share... hands down.

Believe or not Aduiovox is number 2 and they actually make some quality systems as well.

Just some advice...

RX-Nut

Hmm.. Makes me think twice about Compustar..

huhsler

mdw - When you blanket state that "Compustar systems are crap," what exactly are you talking about?

I did extensive research, calling nearly every reputable installer, from your basic Best Buy to Tweeters to the various Mom and Pops. I talked to people that were with DEI before they bought out all the other companies. Most DEI installers are not even aware that Compustar makes a freq-agile SS system.

From a quality and operational standpoint, my system has been a champ. I think both alarm systems are fine. The fact that they share parts and input/outputs are an indicator that they are similar in many respects, I think.

I would like to hear some more details.

My apologies if I sound defensive, but with a statement like that, I'd like to hear justifications.

Thanks.

RX-Nut

Nice reply huhsler..

Of the two, the Viper and the Compustar, which has the longer usable range?

huhsler

The Compustar Spread Spectrum is known for it's range. It's supposed to be 1.25 miles. In practice, however and without the vertical aerial installed, my range is more like half a mile, LOS. With intervening buildings, it's about 200 yards.

The 791 is reportedly a quarter mile. In practice, my friend's Viper 791 (also without the vertical aerial) is about 200 yards, LOS. With buildings, it's a shot in the dark. Reasonably, say 100 yards. The 791's straight FM seems to deal with buildings a little better than the Compustar's SS.

Reportedly, DEI and Compustar make new range-extending aerials that offer even better than the max ranges. However, both involve drilling a hole in your trunk to install. No thanks. ;-)

mdw33333

Well, I've made a living selling and installing auto security for 10 years now. Stating that Compustar systems "are crap" may have sounded a bit harsh, but my statement's intent was more to justify DEI as the more preferrable system of the two.

I sold and installed both systems and I base my findings on the facts. I've had fewer problems with DEI systems than any other. They offer the best tech support, customer service, and WARRANTY in the industry. To my knowledge, DEI is the only security manufacturer offering a lifetime "transferrable" warranty on their systems. The key word is "transferrable." Meaning that the system can be transferred from one vehicle to another and still be under full warranty as though it was new.

You may have years of good service from your Compustar, and you may be very happy with it as a single consumer, but from a professional's standpoint, my money is on DEI.

huhsler

Thanks for your follow-up. I appreciate it. My experience with car alarms has been much more limited, but run nearly 10 years as well (as a consumer and car enthusiast only).

I agree that DEI's lifetime warranty can now be transferred. In fact, their new warranties are now the best in the biz, I'll give you that. Not only can they be transferred by car (with the exception of the remote start systems, which are specifically excluded in the warranty) they can be serviced by any DEI authorized dealer. Of late, that includes nearly everyone that I've contacted.

Compustar has the same warranty type. However, there are much fewer (2 in the DC Metro area and 90 mile radius!) Compustar dealers around. In fact, they'd informed me that in the 50 states, there are about 400 dealers total! DEI's got thousands.

However, to relate my point of view, I had bought 2 alarms, both Vipers, about 8 and 9 years ago when DEI had their older warranty system. I'm sure you'll remember that back then you could only get service for your system from where you bought it. I attempted to hit my Tweeters, Car Trendz, and Circuit Cities the past few years to get those alarms fixed, due to the fact that both of the shopthat I bought my systems from are now out of business. Therefore, I was left with 2 non-functioning alarms. Replacement (at cost) was the only options that I was given.

I got about 7 and 5 years of great operation out of those systems, respectively, but I now I would have to replace them because of those warranty issues. I guess that soured my opinion of DEI, in general. To confirm, as far as you know, DEI did own Viper back then, right?

Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned and stated before, is that I believe that both systems are absolutely great!

If you want the wider support and battle-tested systems, DEI is the one for you.

If you want the longer range and the added security of spread-spectrum, Compustar is worth taking a look at.

Incidentally, the DEI GPS Tracking system mentioned earlier is compatible with both systems.

RX-Nut

Definitely a great discussion.. Here in Hawaii, there are tons of Clifford and Viper installers.. I'm guessing those brands are DEI? However, we only have ONE Compustar dealer.

Frankly I'm now torn between the Compustar SS and the Viper 690xv. Both seem like great systems, but the Compustar seems to be more expensive. I do like the fact that the GPS system works on boths because I think that's something I might opt for. Remote start I really dont care for. I think it's too much hassle for a MT car.. If I had an AT then, yes, I'd love a remot start.

I saw that the 690 is XHF, vs the Compustar's SS.. what's the difference?

mdw33333

Well, I'd like to state something about the range of the systems we're discussing. Either of these two systems should impress you with its range, however there are some variables to be discussed. Most importantly, that the unit be properly installed and that the antenna be properly mounted for optimum range. Second, the vehicle. I've never been able to explain why, but systems perform differently in different vehicles. There is no rhyme or reason to it. Take 2 cars, both with the same system installed, same antenna mounting location, and same location for testing. I'll guarantee one out performs the other.

RX8 Nut, ask yourself this: Why would thousands of auto security retailers world wide all want to sell the same brand of system, risking losing business to "the guy down the street?"

Simple, DEI is that damn good.

huhsler

RX-Nut - XHF is "Extra High Frequency" high-band, high-freq. modulated radio. It uses a single set of frequencies in a pre-set order, config'd at the factory for each set of alarms. The benefits are a clean signal, with fewer retries and a high data rate. The only drawbacks are the reduced range (penetration capability, actually) that high-band radio comes with, as well as the "hackability" of a single frequency set.

Spread-spectrum radio uses radio bandwidth that is larger than the signal necessary to carry the information. It does this through a combination of technologies, such as rapidly changing frequencies, time-base maps, and packet sequencing as well as spreading the signal across different frequency bands. Today's GSM phones all use spread-spectrum technology. The benefits are reliability of delivery, security, and increased range. The primary drawbacks are slower data-rate and more retries, due to the fact that if a single packet is lost, the entire sequence must be transmitted again.

mdw - I agree with your assessment that each install of each alarm in each car differs slightly. However, aside from the fact that Viper has name recognition, I don't think DEI is a bulwark of quality. For instance, they haven't changed the Clifford, Wasp, Sidewinder, or Avital alarm systems, just rebranded them. Many believe that the Sidewinders and Avis are some of the worst alarms made. However, they're DEI now.

Also, due to the fact that DEI did buy out so many other car alarm companies, I think it's largely a matter of atrition: there simply aren't many other alarm companies left.

"When you're the lone one standing, you're only comparing you to yourself."

mdw33333

Huhsler, let me be more specific, Viper is that damn good. By the way, you're wrong about the Clifford, Sidewinder, Avital systems, etc. They are all built by DEI at this point. For verification of this, go to any DEI dealer that carries more than one DEI brand. My company, for instance, carries Viper and Automate. Both systems identical out of the box, with the only difference being the cosmetics of the remote controls. There are only slight variances between the DEI brands at this point. Same harnesses, same programming sequences, same modules.

By the way, all that mumbo jumbo about range frequencys is just that, mumbo jumbo. Call me simple, but I make my claims based on hands-on experience, not by reading a company's hand-out brochure. After working in this industry for 10 years, for a company that has been in business for 32 years, I've been able to make one judgement very clearly. And that is- "use the product that doesn't break."

Wow, what a concept. Bottom line, DEI holds up better, installs easier, and performs better (over-all) than any other brand we've tested.

Keep in mind, DEI put themselves in a position to acquire these other brands by building a quality product themselves. Bigger may not always be better, but tell that to Bill Gates.

huhsler

That's fine. Thank you for the corrections. I really am looking forward to the new lines of alarms, especially since the big shops only seem to carry a limited set of them (Circuit City - Viper and BW, Best Buy Clifford and SW, etc.).

As I stated in a previous post, I've owned Viper systems in 2 of my previous 4 cars. My brother used Viper and Clifford in 2 of his previous 3 cars. 4 of my fellow RX-8 and RX-7 owners have Viper, Audiovox (2), and Black Widows. I also know 2 VW owners that both went (ironically) with Compustars for a Beetle and Passat, FM and SS, respectively. These have been over the past 9 years. I am just relating these experiences.

As I'd stated, both of my old Vipers are now haywire and need to be replaced. My brother's Viper and Clifford have both failed years ago. The Audiovoxes (which I didn't think had a very good reputation) are still working fine today (granted only 2 years and 6 months, respectively). Now I fully grant that my brother and I have gotten years of good service out of these alarms, but the cars have outlasted them. As well, since he and I bought our alarms from small shops years ago, rather than a large chain store and those shops are all gone, we have no recourse for warranty work.

The other Vipers, the Black Widow, and the Compustars are still working with various months and years of life. I haven't seen a Viper that's lasted more than 6 years, yet with a warranty that was practical.

I had to respond here because your assertion that one should "use the product that doesn't break" has been the exact reason that I went with Compustar. My family had tried Viper, time and again. Now, I'm getting personal experience with Compustar, so that I can try it for myself.

Despite my experiences, I did give Viper and DEI a second look and more than a fair shake. My decision was made only very narrowly. This is largely due to the fact that the expanded scope of the warranty makes it that much more attractive. The fact that it can now be transferred from car to car and is shop-independent is very gratifying.

As well, I'm just relaying my history. I have never stated that Vipers are bad alarms or that Compustar is superior. I'm just supplying information and my reasoning for choice.

With regards to mumbo jumbo, RX-Nut had asked what the difference between the two radio technologies was and I was answering to the best of my ability. My wife and I, by trade are Aerospace/Mechanical/Electrical/Telecom Technologies Engineers. So, I beg your leave in saying that we know the technologies through and through. I have contacts at LM, Marconi, and TRW that do falsing and encryption work, with car alarms as a test subject once. I know how easy it is to, if not activate, confuse the 66-bit DEI system. The spread-spectrum technologies are more difficult, ONLY because of their intrinsic nature. I would even say that the Compustar FM is the easiest alarm to false that I've seen, which I why I didn't recommend it.

My assertions about range, from an earlier post, were through testing and experience. I am well connected with a Chinese car enthusiast group in the DC area, so I have access to many of these. I've been playing with car alarms since the 80s, in one form or another. Again, I was only relaying an overall range set from testing and talking with their owners. If you ask others on this forum, they'll tell you that I take my field testing very seriously.

Most installers that I've spoken with in the shops have the "a car alarm installs like a car alarm" mentality. Everyone seems to use DEI's Directed Wire web service anyway. The leads that are listed are exactly the same for one alarm to the next to make it that easy.

I understand that DEI alarms are your shop's bread and butter. I'm sure that you believe in them very strongly and I respect that. If you are an authorized Compustar dealer/installer as well, you have double my respect.

By your tone and words, I feel as though you're taking this personally and I feel as though I'm under attack here.

I apologize to you if you feel that I've wronged you in some way and only wish you well in your business.