complex

i want to replace 4 of the stock speakers and add a jl w3 sub on the rx8..is it a bad idea to power all these speakers off 1 amp or should i get 2?

rotarygod

It doesn't matter. Great systems have been created from single amps. More often than not too many people try to add too many things to their system with less than stellar results. Keep it as simple as possible. If you can get the sound you want out of only one amp then go for it. If you need 2 then 2 it is. Just don't get carried away. The main concern is that everything is hooked up correctly. Don't ever take any shortcuts when it comes to installation. You'll have to do it again.

complex

well im new at this..i have no idea what to do so im letting the people im buying from do the install and i might just watch.

whats a good and reasonably priced amp to power 4 speakers and a 12 inch sub? and is there any way to get good sound by running the 4 speakers from the factory installed amp and the sub from a 2nd amp? and generally speaking which is a better brand to go with polk audio or pioneer (6x9?) and if not these 2 then which?

thanks

Kev

There isn't a quick and easy answer to your question. The big warning call here is "DON'T TAKE THE ADVICE OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!!!" This may be harsh, but unless you have full confidence in them, you could get ripped off and sold a lemon of a system.

Do yourself a favour and do a bit of research. An idiot can bolt $10K worth of equipment into a car and make it sound like crap. A top notch car audio guy can make moderate equipment sound great.

Don't become addicted to a brand either. There's a lot of very good brands and most of them also make a bit of low end rubbish for suckers too.

Shop around and learn. If the guy that's trying to sell you stuff doesn't ...

a) ask you what sort of music you like
b) sit in your car with you and ask you what you want different
c) show you the quality of his work on a vehicle they're currently working on

... just walk away.

When you're close to a system, post the specifications (with model numbers, etc) and specifics on the install to get further feedback.

Kev.

complex

umm how about rockfordfosgate 851x amp..infinity 692.5i speakers in the back and infinity in the front..jl 12w3v2 sub..

Kev

... reasonable kit, but a 12 inch sub either needs to be driven hard and put in a large(ish) box. A desire for boot space may come into the equation.

You have to ask yourself if you like to feel the thump of a drum in you teeth, or do you want to hear the crisp detail of an acoustic guitar?

Speakers will usually sound better installed properly in a car than on a demo board. Buy a reputable brand - but buy the sound you're happy with.

When listening to the speakers in a show room, I stand off centre - I believe this gives a better representation of the car's environment.

Are you talking Infinity perfect 6.1 front? They're quite nice!

I'd stretch to the 693's in the back.

IMO the JL subs are good, installed properly the daul v/c 12 will hit very hard.

The 851 amp you mention has heaps of grunt, but you'd have to be innovative with the wiring + build a large ported enclosure not to need something additional to drive the sub.

This sort of setup would probably give you sharp crisp reproduction with hard hitting bass. (But I can't stess enough that it's all in the install and configuration).

PS Looking at the amp specs, I'd probably drive the fronts and the sub with the 851 and get something (if you want that flavour of Rockford) like a 351 for the 6x9's.

mikeb

IMO get two amps
one for the treble and one for the sub

I have two 12 inch JL w3's and a 600 watt audiobahn amp running it currently.

complex

heres some more options-

autotek (http://www.autotek.net) 5 channel 750watt rms amp

alpine sps 690a in the back and 6x8 alpines in the front..

jl 12w3v2

OR

1 DHD NTX2004
1 DHD NTX2028
1 pioneer 6x8 tsa6880r
1 alpine 6x9 690a
jl 12w3v2

?

Kev

I wouldn't touch those DHD amps.

You want high quality splits in the front, only resort to coaxial ovals on the rear parcel shelf. I'd personally consider the same splits for front and rear.

If your looking at Alpine, the type "R" speakers are ok, I wouldn't touch anything else in their speaker range myself.

Give us an idea of your budget if you'd like component suggestions and you musical tastes.

I'm not familiar with Audiotek products.

complex

autotek is a new company ..theyr stuff seems like quality to me.

how about pioneer tsa6990r 6x9 in the back and kenwood kfc6889ie 6x8 in the front?....i need a really good suggestion for the amp(s) as i cant decide. my budget is around $1000-$1200 (US). my musical taste is hiphop.

Kev

My suggestion for a good amp would be a JL Audio 500.5. This will take the high level (speaker level) input from the head unit and would power two sets of splits (F+R) and a reasonable sub. Unless you desire going deaf - It'd give you heaps of solid hard bass in a ported enclosure containing a JL 12w3v2.

Trouble is this eats up about $800 of your US dollars even if you shop hard. I'd still allow $300~500 for for a componoent front set (2 x large tweeters and 2 x 6.5 inch seperates) and coaxial oval 6x9 rears combined.

Then you have installation, sub enclosure to build, cabling, sound deadening material, etc.

I suppose I'm saying that you're not going to get a lot for your budget. Do it yourself will bring you in closer - but it'll take you a long time to get it right (a labour of love?).

BTW, clean and simple is best, the JL amp removes the need for line level converters, etc. The amp would sit nicely in the boot well and if you not carrying the spare tyre, a rear facing ported enclosure would work.

I think the Alpine type R speakers would possibly suit you...

SPR694A in rear

SPR176A in front

They'd suit hard hitting music and would keep the price moderate. If your musical tasted changed, you could keep everything else and swap Alpine for Focal and spend another $1K.

complex

http://www.autotek.net/streetmachine.htm
what do you think about these just by quickly looking through this? and what do you think of the pioneer and kenwood i mentioned.ill look into the jl amp it looks pretty good..i cant go compnent thats to much $..i do it myself and i risk killing all the speakers or killing myself.i wish i knew how to though.

Kev

You won't be happy with coaxial speakers in the doors no matter what brand (well, I wouldn't)

http://www.carreview.com/ is a good place to look at opinions.

I can't gain a lot of info from the Autotek web site, but I'd assume them to be medium range and fair to good quality from first peek.

The Kenwood KFC6889is - I wouldn't touch them. I've never thought much Kenwood speakers generally, to me they lack definition. They make good head units, amps, subs...

I know the Pioneer TSA6995's are pretty good low cost rear parcel shel options, don't know about the models you mentioned.

Back on compnent splits for the from. There's no problems with them. Pick the right size and you probably talking 4 hours work to install mids and tweeters, plus crossovers, in both front doors.

Please don't use oval coax speakers in the front - you'd really regret it.

rotarygod

Just for history sake, the Autotek name was around when few others existed. In the '80s the big players were Rockford-Fosgate, Phase Linear, HiFonics, and Autotek. The company may have changed hands over the years but the name hasn't. Very few of the existing companies are still the same as they were years ago.

Now for my rebuttal to an earlier comment. While there are many shady salesmen out there, there are many honest ones as well. The honest ones realize that gaining your trust and loyalty will benefit them the most in the long run. Shady salesman are only concerned with right now. To say "don't take the advice of the people that are taking your money" makes everyone in the industry look bad and that isn't right. Do your research on them before committing to the purchase. You'll know pretty quickly how honest a person is. I was in retail audio for 8 years. I was always honest and had the biggest clientele of the others there. The "best" salesman made the most money but also had the fewest repeat customers and received the most complaints. I also never had to go searching for a job since most places wanted me there. He on the other hand had a very hard time getting hired at other places due to his reputation. Don't judge everyone because of one bad experience. Try being on the other side. There are an awful lot of punk customers too. The salesman doesn't like to work with you if you aren't loyal to him either.

Now for the real information. As I said earlier you can make a great sounding system with almost any combination of amps, from single to multiples. It all depends on how you want the system to be designed. If you want a Dolby 5.1 system and a big booming sub box then one amp is not for you. If you just want a nice sounding set of highs and a little power for the low end then a single amp may work good. There are infinite examples so decide first on how many total speakers you want to use and where. (ex: A component set in front and rear and 1 sub) This system could work from 1 or 2 amps. After you decide what the setup will be like then decide which speakers you want to use. Different speakers have diffeent power requirements due to differences in efficiency. Only then should you decide on amplification. Too many people do it in the wrong order and get less than perfect results.

Brand name is less important than how you use it! I could take 3 identical systems but use an Autotek amp in one car, a JL Audio amp in another car, and a Rockford amp in the 3rd car. If all 3 were rated at the exact same power and I blindfolded you and ramdomly put you into each car, you will most likely not be able to tell me which car was which. In fact in a blind test I could pull you out of one car, spin you around and then without your knowledge out you back in the same car and make you think it is a different system. Opinions will trick your brain into hearing something that you don't. This doesn't mean that all amps sound the same. They don't. Most people's ears aren't trained well enough to hear a difference even though they think they are. If you are serious about a good sounding system, instead of asking everyone just go out and watch the car stereo magazines each month. Which amps do the competition cars use the most? Which ones show up the most? You'll see some more than others but you'll always see variation in brand names. This means that there must be many different good amps out there. There are! On our Expert class World Champion dodge Intrepid, that car has always used Rockfor amps. Many people hate Rockford and many love them. Who's right? We've won and lost with them. The competitor that keeps trading spots 1 and 2 with us for the past several years is Mark Eldridge and his Toyota 4 runner. The first time he won he was using MTX. Then he went and worked for Kicker and we kept going back and forth. Now he works for JBL and guess what? We still keep swapping top spots. To go back to the old saying, it's not what you have, it's how you use it. This may not be true to some women but it is absolutely true in audio.

Do your homework, figure out which ones are good and then just choose. Whatever you do, DO NOT base your decision off of published specs other than power! This is a complete worthless waste of time. What is the difference between .03% distortion and .05% to the human ear? Nothing! Even a good ear can't detect less than 3.00% distotion so why use such a ridiculous number for decision making? Don't worry about asking if something is RMS (root mean squared) power or peak power. Your amp is only pushing fractions of a watt until a hard low end beat hits anyways or until it is really loud so why does this matter? You can never have too much power but you will never use it all at once. You will blow up a speaker from too little power befoe you will from too much.

Lets see, other things... Don't mix na,e brand speakers in the same car. If at all possible use the EXACT same speakers all around. Different speakers sound different from each other. What if the back sounded better than the front? Would you be happy?

Well that's about it for my rambling. If you read this far and understood my spelling errors, hopefully some of the info helped.

Kev

So even though you say this...

You've gone on to underline my reasoning and agree that personal research is key. Not only that, you've stated cases where bad sales people are involved in the industry.

Reliability must be demonstrated and trust must be earned!!!

Therefore I believe that all of this is still 100% valid...

--------------------------------------------------------------

There isn't a quick and easy answer to your question. The big warning call here is "DON'T TAKE THE ADVICE OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!!!" This may be harsh, but unless you have full confidence in them, you could get ripped off and sold a lemon of a system.

Do yourself a favour and do a bit of research. An idiot can bolt $10K worth of equipment into a car and make it sound like crap. A top notch car audio guy can make moderate equipment sound great.

Don't become addicted to a brand either. There's a lot of very good brands and most of them also make a bit of low end rubbish for suckers too.

Shop around and learn. If the guy that's trying to sell you stuff doesn't ...

a) ask you what sort of music you like
b) sit in your car with you and ask you what you want different
c) show you the quality of his work on a vehicle they're currently working on

... just walk away.

--------------------------------------------------------------

But by all means, please comment. The advice I'm offereing others on this forum is free, given at my own expense in time and based on my experiences. I really wouldn't want to go to this effort to be misleading people.

Dugless

Dude, run a Flux Capacitor to your four 15's and that sould take care of your acoustphication problems that you are currently experiencing.

Word

rotarygod

It wasn't meant to be an argumentative statement. You stated "not to take the advice of the people that are taking your money". That is a pretty blanket statement and covers everyone in the industry honest or not. The rest of your statement is essentially the same as mine and that is to in fact do your homework on the salesman and product before you commit to them. My response in is regard to that single sentence and how it shouldn't apply to everyone even though a bit of caution should be taken. While I did state where bad people have been involved in the industry I also stated examples of good people in the industry. Your logic and cautions are essentially the same as mine are but even after you get to know a salesperson to the point you know he is honest should you still not trust them? When I was in the industry I always tried to be honest and straight forward with the customer. If I didn't make a sale right there then so what. If I came over as a good person and they come back then that only helps me help them even futher. I unlike a co-worker of mine, never had any complaints against me and my clientele was very big with many repeat customers and referrals. Your one statement applied to people like me too and of course I will take a little offense to it. It doesn't mean that I don't expect a customer to learn something about me before commiting to a purchase. I like an educated customer. Once both parties can see eye to eye only then is the best service given and received.

Kev

Fair enought on your thoughts and feelings. But I still stand by my statement. Harsh it may be, but a novice shopping to spend money has no baseline to measure honestly or integrity. The novice must either...

a) Find someone that doesn't have a vested financial interest to assist them
b) Rely on known references of integrity (ie; Josh at XYZ Sound, tell them Fred sent you...)
c) Become expert enough to filter truth from lies
d) Research the salesperson/company they intend to purchase from sufficiently to determine trustworthyness.

Rotarygod, I'm an "honest guy" in IT. But there's no way on first contact that I can prove that to a new prospect, there are too many crooked people in the industry.

It's a hard old world and it's a sad state of affairs when you need to be suspicious of people, but where there's a profit margin to be made, there's normally bigger profits with deception!

It's a bit like telling your kids "never talk to strangers". 99% of those strangers will be nice people, but you're protecting them from the perverts, as kids typically have no way of making the distinction.

... and Rotarygod, as far as your personal integrity goes - it's in ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT. You've shown your character to be helpful, honest and supportive by the bucket loadv here.

complex

thanks for the help..well i decided on everything, i got 1 5 chan 750watt amp and pioneers.. i had it all put in but there was 1 problem, they couldnt get the 12 inch subzone box to fit in the trunk!
leaving me with 2 choices, either go with 1 or 2 10's or get a custom box made for a 12? is there any other way i can get a 12 in there?

Kev

If you go custom, at least you'll be able to get it built in a way that will maximise your boot space.

I'd always lean towards a custom sub enclosure - as long as I could insure it would be build correctly.

Which amp? Wihch speaker models?

Are you happy with it? ... that is, after all, the most important thing.

complex

Autotek SX-5750
Pioneer TS-D680R
Pioneer TS-A6990R

i really dont know how they sound, all i heard was music from the fm radio on the way home as i didnt have any cds in the car and the one mp3 cd i made didnt work on the mazda mp3 player i had them install..cause it was a CDRW and not CDR i think...and its raining like hell right now so ill go test them later.they temporarily put in a 10 inch MTX in there until i get probably the 10w6 instead of 12w3v2.how much less bass am i gonna end up with if i go this way?

Kev

If you really want hard hitting bass, the single 10 may dissapoint you. That said, changing the position and "firing" direction of a sub in the boot makes significant differences.

I'd be surprised if they didn't let you trial the 10 for a little while ... to see if it does what you want.

complex

i just went out and tried it out for a few minutes i THINK the bass..is enough BUT im mad! why does the mp3 player not list the track names?! all i see is cd1..2..3..

Kev

My MP3 playver has been sitting in a box for 2 weeks, so I can't give you an truthful answer ... there is a thread that talks about the ID tags and the limits of the Mazda MP3 player, etc.

This could be your problem. I know you can cycle through the display modes, but I haven't read the documentation yet.

I've been holding back until I have the rest of the equipment I'm installing, so that I only need to pull the dash apart once.

complex

i didnt even read the manual ..i should. if it cant display track names this mp3 player would be useless!