So, you want to be a tuner? Look no further.
06-23-2014, 06:41 PM
#126
All factory parts have margins of error.
What Team is saying is that if your off everywhere - the Inj1 is a likely culprit.
If you are only off in a small area - firs thing I check is if a new injector is coming online; then I check to see if it is a TREND. Remember anything that is a trend doesn't go on the VE map. Only non trending lean/rich spots get the Fuel VE map.
Trend analysis is a key ingredient.
What Team is saying is that if your off everywhere - the Inj1 is a likely culprit.
If you are only off in a small area - firs thing I check is if a new injector is coming online; then I check to see if it is a TREND. Remember anything that is a trend doesn't go on the VE map. Only non trending lean/rich spots get the Fuel VE map.
Trend analysis is a key ingredient.
06-23-2014, 07:17 PM
#128
so since this is a tuning thread i might as well ask : How does one explain what happens around 7500 ... its interesting because on both gears (2nd and 3rd) it looks like right around there it starts hitting its target afrs while the band before it runs a bit leaner than target.
I understand that throttle enrichment is at play, but i thought that would cause a more rich "tip in" at the push of the throttle (not to mention i think TE only goes up to 5k rpm).
Now the VDI opens up around 7500 ... so I assume that is what is helping the upper end ... but say I wanted to tune that area below 7500 to hit the targets ...
As you guys mentioned ... it wouldn't be primaries as that would change the entire curve...
I understand that throttle enrichment is at play, but i thought that would cause a more rich "tip in" at the push of the throttle (not to mention i think TE only goes up to 5k rpm).
Now the VDI opens up around 7500 ... so I assume that is what is helping the upper end ... but say I wanted to tune that area below 7500 to hit the targets ...
As you guys mentioned ... it wouldn't be primaries as that would change the entire curve...
Last edited by paimon.soror; 06-23-2014 at 07:34 PM.
06-23-2014, 07:58 PM
#130
Yeah that is the typical spot where Fuel VE tuning would need to happen.
It's the lean spot from the ports - its a PITA to get it out of there, but it is possible. No real advantage in power / safety since it is so short. But it's a fun experiment to try.
It's the lean spot from the ports - its a PITA to get it out of there, but it is possible. No real advantage in power / safety since it is so short. But it's a fun experiment to try.
06-23-2014, 08:02 PM
#132
So im guess its time to call this "done".
Can't decide if i should play it safe and pull down the injector scale a bit.
06-24-2014, 08:09 AM
#134
Last week I was messing with my injector bank 1 size to hone in on some better ST and LTFT values in the 1500 to 4000 RPM range.
I got some pretty good values, but the problem I am seeing is similar to Carbon, at idle, my LTFT is -6. Any sort of rpm increase sends it to near 0. I monitored it live data as I was driving. LT and ST are between 0 and 2 +/-
See my attached log. (rename to .csv)
I also attached an image of the compiled logs I have been doing. As you can see, all my fuel trims are doing decently (first section of the screen capture)
Since I got these pretty damn close, I went on to the 4500 to 6000 logs, thats where my idle issue showed up. I also wanted to know if this is a a time where I would adjust the VE map. You can see that I am 12% lean at 5500rpm.
I haven't changed anything between the first compiled table and the second aside from drive the car.
Any suggestions?
I got some pretty good values, but the problem I am seeing is similar to Carbon, at idle, my LTFT is -6. Any sort of rpm increase sends it to near 0. I monitored it live data as I was driving. LT and ST are between 0 and 2 +/-
See my attached log. (rename to .csv)
I also attached an image of the compiled logs I have been doing. As you can see, all my fuel trims are doing decently (first section of the screen capture)
Since I got these pretty damn close, I went on to the 4500 to 6000 logs, thats where my idle issue showed up. I also wanted to know if this is a a time where I would adjust the VE map. You can see that I am 12% lean at 5500rpm.
I haven't changed anything between the first compiled table and the second aside from drive the car.
Any suggestions?
Was there some kind of trend there you were working on that I don't see? Under 3% is perfect.
Last edited by Kane; 06-24-2014 at 07:46 PM.
06-24-2014, 10:24 PM
#137
Mile High Eight
Kane,
The 6/19 log was after I made an adjustment of -2% to my injector 1 size. So, the data you see is with that -2%. All the trims looked good, so I moved on to injector 2--4500 to 6000 rpm. You can see that these rpm ranges are pretty good aside from 5500, 12% lean. Because this is an isolated issue, should I adjust the ve map at that rpm and load?
Also, after doing those logs, I took another idle log just for the hell of it. That is the log I posted, showing that my ltft were -6. As I was driving around, I was watching my ltft. Any time I accelerate or coast, my ltft would be between +/-2%. Only at idle would it stay at -6%.
Any idea what that is telling me?
Thanks
The 6/19 log was after I made an adjustment of -2% to my injector 1 size. So, the data you see is with that -2%. All the trims looked good, so I moved on to injector 2--4500 to 6000 rpm. You can see that these rpm ranges are pretty good aside from 5500, 12% lean. Because this is an isolated issue, should I adjust the ve map at that rpm and load?
Also, after doing those logs, I took another idle log just for the hell of it. That is the log I posted, showing that my ltft were -6. As I was driving around, I was watching my ltft. Any time I accelerate or coast, my ltft would be between +/-2%. Only at idle would it stay at -6%.
Any idea what that is telling me?
Thanks
06-25-2014, 07:24 AM
#138
Kane,
The 6/19 log was after I made an adjustment of -2% to my injector 1 size. So, the data you see is with that -2%. All the trims looked good, so I moved on to injector 2--4500 to 6000 rpm. You can see that these rpm ranges are pretty good aside from 5500, 12% lean. Because this is an isolated issue, should I adjust the ve map at that rpm and load?
Also, after doing those logs, I took another idle log just for the hell of it. That is the log I posted, showing that my ltft were -6. As I was driving around, I was watching my ltft. Any time I accelerate or coast, my ltft would be between +/-2%. Only at idle would it stay at -6%.
Any idea what that is telling me?
Thanks
The 6/19 log was after I made an adjustment of -2% to my injector 1 size. So, the data you see is with that -2%. All the trims looked good, so I moved on to injector 2--4500 to 6000 rpm. You can see that these rpm ranges are pretty good aside from 5500, 12% lean. Because this is an isolated issue, should I adjust the ve map at that rpm and load?
Also, after doing those logs, I took another idle log just for the hell of it. That is the log I posted, showing that my ltft were -6. As I was driving around, I was watching my ltft. Any time I accelerate or coast, my ltft would be between +/-2%. Only at idle would it stay at -6%.
Any idea what that is telling me?
Thanks
In my opinion, i would take a step back. Forget all about the injectors, and really get your maf scaled. Return to stock, and post an idle log.
And yes, any time you touch the throttle you may see your ltft change because it will show you the learned ltft for that RPM/Load.
06-25-2014, 07:31 AM
#139
Yeah, I would look back at your idle step. At least verify that you're seeing 5-5.5 and you LTFT is below 3%. If everything else is perfect, a idle fuel trim won't hurt the car. But typically, a high idle trim means something is calibrated badly for the entire rest of the tune.
06-25-2014, 07:07 PM
#140
Mile High Eight
Yeah, I would look back at your idle step. At least verify that you're seeing 5-5.5 and you LTFT is below 3%. If everything else is perfect, a idle fuel trim won't hurt the car. But typically, a high idle trim means something is calibrated badly for the entire rest of the tune.
During your class Kane, we scaled my MAF +15%. My idle MAF Voltage is usually around 1.04 when fully warmed up, and my scaled MAF air flow is about 4.0.
You were concerned that I had a low compression motor since my voltage was so low. But we chalked that up to me being at altitude (5200 ft). My intake vacuum is at about 14 in/hg, which seems to match up to the "rule of thumb" of 1 inch of hg loss per 1000 ft in elevation, so at sea level, my vacuum reading would be ~19 in/HG
So, given that information, should I still scale my MAF to be 5.5g/sec at 1.04 volts?
Thanks.
06-26-2014, 07:48 AM
#141
Good question. That is a great thought that had not really occurred to me during the class. You're idle airflow would be lower since your at altitude.
Short answer is no, I wouldn't chase the 5.5 g/sec. But I'd have to do some math to try and figure out what your number would be. Basically we need to figure out what % of 1 ATA your air pressure is.
Short answer is no, I wouldn't chase the 5.5 g/sec. But I'd have to do some math to try and figure out what your number would be. Basically we need to figure out what % of 1 ATA your air pressure is.
06-27-2014, 12:32 AM
#146
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Coming out of Kane's class earlier this month , I finally completed my tune today , thanks for all the help Kane !.
My S2 R3 feels great !
With respect to the VE map adjustments , I had to make a considerable amount of adjustments to specific points only because MAF and inj adj had no significant impact on those points( after scaling) . I guess cat- less mid pipe and RB cat-back combined with K&N drop in ,did make a huge difference, especially after the tune !
My S2 R3 feels great !
With respect to the VE map adjustments , I had to make a considerable amount of adjustments to specific points only because MAF and inj adj had no significant impact on those points( after scaling) . I guess cat- less mid pipe and RB cat-back combined with K&N drop in ,did make a huge difference, especially after the tune !