Well I got my G-Tech and canzoomers 1.1 and went to the testing fields. The results were not very good.

I have a Borla Cat Back.

I did 6 runs 3 with canzoomers ecu on and 3 with it off. ( I know the unit was on and off not only by the switch but because when the cz unit was off the horrible idle went away)

All 6 runs were within 2 Horse Power of each other. All in all The 1.1 gained me about a 1/2 of Horse.

All runs were between 159 and 161. The 159's were done both stock and with the cz 1.1. Cz Top hpw was 161.6 where the Stocks top end was 161 Flat.


All Runs were tested in 2nd gear. I had the weight on the gtech set to 3400 (had wifey and a full tank of gas).

All in all I feel like I got the shaft a little on this one.

Maybe I got a faulty unit or perhaps I am missing something. Has anyone gotten the 20 HPW advertised to register on the g-tech or dyno? Do we have any g-tech or dyno proof that this thing actually does anything?

I swore up and down that the car felt a little more powerful with the unit on but I believe the g-tech vs my ***.

 

Due to the fact that the RX-8 has a learning ECU, it takes a while for your car to "learn" about the modified Air/Fuel and ignition advance. Drive with it for a week, and try it again. You'll see a difference.

 

Hello Omnicron.

I enjoy reading your posts!

I have now had the cz for well over 2 weeks and have put on 500 + miles with it. I think the ecu has had plenty of time to learn.

The only thing that the canzoomer has done as far as I and the g tech says is:

It smooths out the rpm range
It fu*ks up the idle something horrible
and gains 1/2 hpw over stock

I would really like to have a non affiliated member of the boards to g tech this thing to make sure i dont have a crap unit. I do know it is doing something though as the idle clears up as soon as I hit the off switch.

I think we need verified proof of horsepower from non affiliated members as to not have anyone else waste money on this until it performs as advertised (even 10 hpw I would be satisfied with) or until I am proven an idiot for not doing something right or proven I have a faulty unit.

I will say besides the idle problem it did feel faster although when it was put to the test it did not perform. Are you going by feel or do you have numbers? I am willing to send you my gtech and have you test your car if we have no other members come forward with results. I would really like to know if anyone is getting hpw gains.

 

Actually a correction to my last post. I have had it in for 500 miles and a little over a week.

not 2 full weeks yet.

 

One last thought for the night about the learning ecu.

My car took exactly .005 seconds to realize it did not have the cz 1.1 in it and idled like stock immediatly. So I am not so sure we have a dumb ecu that take weeks to learn how to drive. That thing learned quick as hell to idle like sh*t with cz 1.1 and learned just as fast to idle correctly with it uninstalled.

Although I have run over 500 miles on the cz piggyback before the tests, I respectfully disagree that it takes lots of time for the ecu to learn based off of the limited experiences I have had.

 

diegodog: I noticed in your other post you wrote.....stage 1.1 w/ Borla cat back on the k flash.

I know CZ said stage 1.1 would work with any of the flashes but he said it would was optimized for M flash. I would bet your idle problem and low hp gains are due to not having the M.
I believe the flash version affects it greatly. The member I sold my unit to, olddragger, has posted that he felt a higher hp increase when he got the M flash. He installed it when he had the L version and noticed a slight increase from stock.

I'd recommend to take it to the dealer and get the latest PCM updated flash, M. You should have no problem getting them to do it, since it shows up on their computer to perform this on all RX8 that come in for service / maintenance. I got mine this week without any hassles.

Then try some more gtech tests and see what you get. I still don't think it'll be 20hp, since it's been posted that CZ is running a "safer" map and is currently working on a new one. But it should be more than the minimal gains you are seeing.

 

Also, about the proof from non affiliated members......

Checkout this link.
It has some gtech data and shows he only gained 5hp, but it was with the L flash.
Also, there should be some info from other current buyers that are either going to the dragstrip or having their car dyno'd within a week. We'll know soon enough.

 

diegodog,
Adrian got your turbo yet? Just asking. Diegodog (cool name) If you dont have the m flash get it as everyone is saying. Ive had the k flash, the L flash and the m flash. Breaks down like this
k-- no cz unit its the flash with the kick above 6k or so i like it but there were flooding issues.
L- didnt like it took away the kick ,made shifting smoother with the dsc on, overall weaker.
L with cz 1.1 -- noticed improvement in lower ranges but not that great. higher rpms had mini hesitations
M- took the unit out complety to upgrade and when I drove the car I knew it was not there. Got the M flash drove it for a day and it was a big improvment. stronger low end etc. Then I placed the cz 1.1 in and it did wake the car up. Big differance. No dynos or g tech but dont need it. 20-25 hp is want it feels like. Only other mod is a RB catback. STOCK INTAKE. You are welcome to drive my car anytime with it on and then with it off. YOU CAN TELL.
Sorry you are having trouble but canzoomer is a good vendor and I think he would give you a refund but you could probaly sell it yourself .
rock on man
ilddragger

 

I'm glad to see the truth about the Stage 1 is becoming more apparent to most on this forum. I was one of the first to be dissatisfied with it and send it back, and more people are learning the same.

All in all, it's a waste of money.

 

Hi diegodog -

Thanks for the nice comments... I enjoy posting! :D

As for the CZ unit, I think what was said above is best. Does it give you 20-25HP? Who knows? Thus far no one has dyno'd it as far as I know. CanZoomer did a bunch of dyno runs when he was first developing it, and has since learned to rely on his GTechPro Comp, as it does a pretty good job of accurately measuring differences.

I know Maurice personally, and if he says he gets 20-25 HP gain on his car, I have NO doubt he does. He's as honest as the day is long.

The problem is that there are a LOT of variances in how individual cars respond to the unit. This is Maurice's conclusion from actually speaking with his customers who have problems, and it's also mine independantly from reading everyone's comments here on the forums. Some people's '8s take to the CZ unit like a duck to water and run MUCH better right from the start. Most are a little better at first, then improve significantly after driving a bit and letting the ECU learn. These two are the most common.

But some people's cars gain little or no HP from the mod, or gain HP but have problems with pinging. This latter case is my car right now.

So why is this happening? The best theory so far is that the mass airflow "MAF" sensor is at the high or low end of the allowable spec. The MAF is main component on the car that the CZ unit keys on to decide what level of a/f and ignition advance to use. Any automotive componant is designed to operate within certain allowable ranges, and the MAF is no exception. So while it may be designed to put out, say 0.2V - 0.6V (totally made up numbers) and this range is what the ECU understands, the allowable spec range might be 0.1V - 0.7V. You get a car that has a MAF that leans one way or the other, you wind up with the ECU seeing a voltage that is 0.1V off one way or the other. While this isn't a problem with the normal A/F and ignition tuning that the factory ECU uses, when you add the CZ unit's settings it takes the car that much closer to "the edge" and you have problems. Or conversely, you go the opposite way and gain nothing - or even lose HP.

Another variable here is the intake. While aftermarket intakes do make some power, by design they also adjust how much are is coming in to the engine. This extra airflow may and may not help when you add the CZ unit in, as the CZ unit is tuned to work best with the factory intake.

I proved this to myself a couple of weeks ago, when I ran my car with my Rotary Extreme intake versus the stock intake and with the CZ unit on and off. Conclusion: The CZ unit does not like the RE intake... it runs worst with it on the car. BUT, with the CZ unit turned off, the car definitely runs better WITH the RE intake. So I have some tuning of the CZ unit to do to make them both play nice together.

Of course there are other variables, like elevation, humidity, color of the shirt you're wearing, etc, but these seem to be the most critical factors. And enough for now.

So what can you do about this? Sounds to me like your car is on of those that falls at the outer edges of the allowable spec, So if I were you, I'd do the following:

• As was suggested above, go get the "M" flash. It's well worth it in it's own right.
• If you have an aftermarket intake (RE or K&N or whatever) take it off and try the CZ unit again. If it runs better without it, then you can either leave it off, or go with one of the following tuning options and tune the car to work with the CZ and the intake
• Call CanZoomer and discuss your options with him. See what he suggests for tuning. Just talking with him will make you feel better.
• If you're comfortable with tuning your car yourself, invest the ~ $130 needed and buy the CZ "CZ-Prog2" full tuning kit. It's pretty easy to do once you get the hang of it.
• If you're not comfortable (or don't have the time) then buy the CZ-Prog2 kit and find yourself a good rotary tuner to tweak your car.

Hope this helps! :D

 

i think when I get the money I'm going to buy the high end data cable and have the car tuned at pettit or something.

Maurice makes a good unit, but the tuning doesnt work globally very well.

and hmm....maybe I'll sell the maps pettie makes :P j/k

Omicron..
If I have a MAF sensor that falls on the 'power-loosing' side of the range, would it even be possible to tune it back out to gain back the power? I dont have a problem paying for extra tuning. I paid $500 for a piggyback computer, not really for the maps. I'm not sure how the tuning software works...can you directly modify the injector pulses or is it just some sort of correction factor that modifies the stock pulses at each given rpm and a retard/advance factor for the ignition?

 

The CZ unit modifies the stock pulses with a correction factor. As far as I know, it IS possible to have it tuned to gain power, but it would have to be done specifically for your car. I'm going to do this, as my car has pinging issues with the CZ unit as it comes, so it "stutters" starting at 6500 RPM or so. If I can't get it myself, I found a good rotary tuner shop here in my area.

The CZ unit modifies basically 2 things: A/F ratio and ignition advance. The tuning kit allows you to use a computer to adjust both of these areas pretty simply.

So here's my plan:

1. I spoke with Maurice, and he recommended I first back the ignition advance off a "few" degrees. I've tried this, and while it's better, it's still stumbling. I plan to back ALL the advance off this weekend or so, and see if it solves the problem.

2. Next I'm going to use the OBDII-CanScan tool I have and do some real time runs, and log them. This should tell me exactly what's going wrong. If I have to modify the A/F curves in addition to the ignition advance, this is the only way I'll be able to do it.

3. Finally, using the data from my logging, I'll start adding advance (and a/f if need be) back in. Eventually this will result in a map tuned to my car.

Now if I could only find the time.

Oh, and BTW, my car DEFINITELY runs stronger with the CZ unit up until the point it starts pinging. I'm using 91 octane gas, and may try 93 octane to see if it helps too. But the power addition is there, no question.

 

Omicron,

Never have experience tuning the engine with an ECU. Is it hard to learn? I really want to gain some experience tuning my own car.

 

It's not hard if you get the stuff you need to do it right. Best way is to use a laptop to log the readings, then study them and come up with a strategy to correct problems.

To do this with the Stage 1/2 box get a "USB" extender cable. Plug it into the Stage 1/2 box and run it through the grommet in the front of the PCM box, and into the cab (Maurice put a hole through the firewall at the passengers foot area for this - and then sealed it with a grommet and silicone). Plug the programming cable into the USB extender cable and plug the programming cables other end into your laptop.

We also have a "Lambda Boy" wide band O2 sensor, and adapted one of the outputs from that to the Stage 1/2 box such that it A/D converts it and sends the result to the laptop (thus keeping time coincidence between the Stage 1 signals and the "Lambda Boy" signals).

That was our first technique. Now we are also using the ODBII signals, and they appear "better", because they tell you what the car "thinks" is happening - its' own sensors can fool it. This helps resolve questions such as "Why did the stock PCM do that correction?" when our previous setup told us everything was fine and no correction was necessary.

If you don't have a laptop, hold off for a while, as Maurice may have some affordable offerings now from his trip.

If you make a mistake in tuning and get into pinging, it's not disasterous. You will experience mild pinging as a drop in power - this usually occurs around 6500 RPM in the current "M" flash with the Stage 1/2 box. If you hold the pedal to the floor when this happens, you will eventually trip a CEL or MIL and get a 15 second drop in power. The RX-8 is very good at protecting itself, unlike the 3rd gen RX-7, which would just ignore the pinging signals and self destruct.

Why do we not dyno this car anymore? It's not reliable. You have no idea if the PCM is reducing power (it can be -a little- upset and not give an indication, yet still drop power a bit). The car is also too easy to overheat on the dyno.

 

Update: I backed the timing off today some more starting at around 3100 RPM on the map (which is actually 6200RPM) and my pniging/power loss problem is gone. Runs sweet now. :D

Now I plan to go to step 2... results to follow.

 

Nor had I had any experience, except in the olden days when you had to use a timing light...

But once you figure out how to use the eManage software, it's a piece of cake. Just takes time is all.

 

This is exactly where I had the problem, and exactly what happened if I tried to push through it.