Questions about the Stage 1.X please
06-15-2004, 03:01 PM
#1
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Clarity...
... As in: "Can we get some?"
There appear to be a lot of issues that we are not getting consistent answers to:
When are new maps from Canzoomer released and can this be posted here?
Should or should not people be snipping their resistors for coil longevity?
How are new units different?
Should, or can, older units be exchnged for new ones?
How come the rough idle when the unit isn't supposed to take action until 2000 rpm?
How about some definative anwsers to the horsepower question from the canzoomer?
I understand Canzoomer is busy and RX8friend has been very helpfull but I am tired of chasing all these questions down in different threads.
We need a complete update!
There appear to be a lot of issues that we are not getting consistent answers to:
When are new maps from Canzoomer released and can this be posted here?
Should or should not people be snipping their resistors for coil longevity?
How are new units different?
Should, or can, older units be exchnged for new ones?
How come the rough idle when the unit isn't supposed to take action until 2000 rpm?
How about some definative anwsers to the horsepower question from the canzoomer?
I understand Canzoomer is busy and RX8friend has been very helpfull but I am tired of chasing all these questions down in different threads.
We need a complete update!
06-15-2004, 09:57 PM
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But you would think they would address some of these issues before they have another 20-25 people upset that their units are not operating properly. I am probably going to pull mine and wait until they fix some of these issues- rough idle and coilpack burning up.
06-15-2004, 10:22 PM
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There has been no problem with mine, but I would just like to say that I think this thread should have a name with a little bit more...clarity, then if you get the answers I think it would probably turn into a sticky.
06-15-2004, 11:11 PM
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we could eliminate a lot of the threads here in the first place and save maurice time posting answers if he just put all that info on his website and updated it frequently...an FAQ page alone would work wonders
06-16-2004, 09:51 PM
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"When are new maps from Canzoomer released and can this be posted here?"
Maurice will get the FTP site working eventually. He's still finishing up the latest map. It improves on the May 18 map. I'll let you know when it's ready.
"Should or should not people be snipping their resistors for coil longevity?"
Well, after finally getting my scopemeter we found "interesting" things. The main board is a little unstable - something I've never seen in a digital circuit before. It has noise in the output. The fix is to replace the resistors to ground with 0.1 microfarad capacitors. We will do this free for anyone who wants it done, but you will have to pay the shipping. All new units shipped from yesterday on will have them. This -may- improve the idle. The "M" flash has a rough idle, because the injectors are really too big. You can see this effect when the car is idleing - notice how it speeds up a tiny amount and then slows back down from time to time? The PCM keeps trying to adjust but can't at idle because the smallest amount of fuel it can inject is too much for idle. The resistors may load down the instability a bit, but it's not the right solution because they also reduce the coil drive pulse.
"How are new units different?"
They're better
. Actually, the new units with the internal switch are the same, except the switch completely disconnects the Stage 1 electronics (except for power to it), whereas the one with the external switch leaves the ignition connected. You'd have to switch the internal dip switch to disconnect that (even numbers on = ignition controlled by Stage 1 - odd numbers on = stock ignition). Now the new units also have the capacitors on the output when the unit is "ON". When "OFF" it's completely stock. The new units are also slightly longer (to make assembly easier). We have also improved the RPM circuit (tach output) so it works better with the Stage 3. This will also be added to any unit sent back for update.
"Should, or can, older units be exchnged for new ones?"
If you have no problems with the older units I wouldn't worry about it.
If you suspect the poor idle is really caused by the unit (verify by removing it for a week and then using it for a week), return it and we'll update it free (except for shipping). We'll also ensure it has the latest map installed (unless you request it not be changed).
"How come the rough idle when the unit isn't supposed to take action until 2000 rpm?"
It isn't clear all cases of rough idle are caused by the unit. Some may be. See above. Maurice has rough idle from time to time, but it doesn't correlate to whether the unit is on or off. We are replacing his coils to see if maybe they are flakey. He tends to heat his car up nicely when testing maps. Heat is the enemy of the coils.
When I checked with the scopemeter I found the "off" voltage to be 0.8 V out of the main board, and after our ignition board 0.15 V. To me this means it's safe for the coils. The "ignition board" is where we condition the signal to the coils. The pulse signal was noisy, and the 0.1 microfarad capacitors fixed that.
So, if I had one would I send it in for updating? Well, I'm an electronics tech, so I'd do it myself as shipping is not cheap! If it was working well in my car I wouldn't bother.
It's a call each of you will have to make for yourself.
Same deal about whether to get the programming cable and program. I'd get it for sure myself. I'd also run the USB extender into the car to monitor the unit while driving with my laptop. I like to have too much info. Some of you are better off (and more comfortable) without.
If you want more detailed instructions/info. on any of this, please ask.
Maurice will get the FTP site working eventually. He's still finishing up the latest map. It improves on the May 18 map. I'll let you know when it's ready.
"Should or should not people be snipping their resistors for coil longevity?"
Well, after finally getting my scopemeter we found "interesting" things. The main board is a little unstable - something I've never seen in a digital circuit before. It has noise in the output. The fix is to replace the resistors to ground with 0.1 microfarad capacitors. We will do this free for anyone who wants it done, but you will have to pay the shipping. All new units shipped from yesterday on will have them. This -may- improve the idle. The "M" flash has a rough idle, because the injectors are really too big. You can see this effect when the car is idleing - notice how it speeds up a tiny amount and then slows back down from time to time? The PCM keeps trying to adjust but can't at idle because the smallest amount of fuel it can inject is too much for idle. The resistors may load down the instability a bit, but it's not the right solution because they also reduce the coil drive pulse.
"How are new units different?"
They're better
. Actually, the new units with the internal switch are the same, except the switch completely disconnects the Stage 1 electronics (except for power to it), whereas the one with the external switch leaves the ignition connected. You'd have to switch the internal dip switch to disconnect that (even numbers on = ignition controlled by Stage 1 - odd numbers on = stock ignition). Now the new units also have the capacitors on the output when the unit is "ON". When "OFF" it's completely stock. The new units are also slightly longer (to make assembly easier). We have also improved the RPM circuit (tach output) so it works better with the Stage 3. This will also be added to any unit sent back for update."Should, or can, older units be exchnged for new ones?"
If you have no problems with the older units I wouldn't worry about it.
If you suspect the poor idle is really caused by the unit (verify by removing it for a week and then using it for a week), return it and we'll update it free (except for shipping). We'll also ensure it has the latest map installed (unless you request it not be changed).
"How come the rough idle when the unit isn't supposed to take action until 2000 rpm?"
It isn't clear all cases of rough idle are caused by the unit. Some may be. See above. Maurice has rough idle from time to time, but it doesn't correlate to whether the unit is on or off. We are replacing his coils to see if maybe they are flakey. He tends to heat his car up nicely when testing maps. Heat is the enemy of the coils.
When I checked with the scopemeter I found the "off" voltage to be 0.8 V out of the main board, and after our ignition board 0.15 V. To me this means it's safe for the coils. The "ignition board" is where we condition the signal to the coils. The pulse signal was noisy, and the 0.1 microfarad capacitors fixed that.
So, if I had one would I send it in for updating? Well, I'm an electronics tech, so I'd do it myself as shipping is not cheap! If it was working well in my car I wouldn't bother.
It's a call each of you will have to make for yourself.
Same deal about whether to get the programming cable and program. I'd get it for sure myself. I'd also run the USB extender into the car to monitor the unit while driving with my laptop. I like to have too much info. Some of you are better off (and more comfortable) without.
If you want more detailed instructions/info. on any of this, please ask.
Last edited by RX-8 friend; 06-16-2004 at 09:54 PM.
06-16-2004, 11:06 PM
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Yes, the snipped resistors in essence are "replaced" with caps. Except the ones I've done so far were the new boards that didn't have the resistors. They were designed to be flexible component wise, so adding the caps was easy. If I were to update an old board I would remove the resistors and put in caps. We're using ceramic "plate" caps. 0.1 uF 50 V. Not polarized. The ones used on CPU motherboards for power filtration.
06-17-2004, 01:52 AM
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Thanks for the answers RX-8 Friend, but I think the question (yet unanswered) that is foremost in the prospective purchasers mind is, "What is the performance like with the M flash? In real numbers!"
06-17-2004, 10:00 PM
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Yes, we can send the two caps. to those comfortable enough to install them - or you can just buy two from an electronics supplier - they are less than $1 each.
I keep seeing the question of how much HP the Stage 1 adds with the "M" flash. I guess lots just don't get what this unit does. It's -programmable-. You get as much HP as the map you have programmed in can give your car. This changes each time we change the map, and varies from car to car. In "Stage 1" tune optimized for one car, the unit will increase HP as much as 25 HP, but currently the map is turned down a bit to compensate for variations in cars. I would guess it could give around 20 HP in the right car. Some cars will see no gain. Some may see a loss. We are working on a way to compensate for these variations. We -will- find a way to give most of you the 25 HP this unit is capable of giving. Some cars may never respond well to it.
We are not going to claim it gives "X" HP in all cars! That would not be true. It -would- be typical for this market!
As for the rough idle - we did a lot more testing today. I put a switch in Maurice's test box to put the caps. in and out of circuit. Out of circuit there was a "chirping" noise (which I noticed before but didn't know what was causing it or where it was coming from). Caps in circuit the noise as gone. I then replaced the two suspect coils (leading ones) with new coils and moved the leading to the trailing position. Chirping was gone, even without the caps. Caps still stopped the noise seen on the scopemeter. Removed the unit from the car and checked idle without it. Replaced unit in the car (with caps switched in and out) and the idle was pretty much the same in all three cases, maybe a little better with the caps than without - but about the same stock as Stage 1 with caps. - sometimes it was smooth, sometimes a little rough. When hot, there was more noise without the caps. as seen with the scopemeter.
So, what can I say about all this? I'm happy with the caps. in circuit. I don't like the noise there - it could cause problems. The caps. seem to be harmless re drive levels and they don't mess with the risetime or timing. I think it's a good modification - no downside, perhaps an improvement. They seem to make the car more tolerant of "weak" coils as well. I have no idea if the coils I took out were weak. Other than the noise, I saw no difference - but I was just running the car idling. Maurice will probably be doing map work tonight, and he will be able to tell if the new coils help anything.
I keep seeing the question of how much HP the Stage 1 adds with the "M" flash. I guess lots just don't get what this unit does. It's -programmable-. You get as much HP as the map you have programmed in can give your car. This changes each time we change the map, and varies from car to car. In "Stage 1" tune optimized for one car, the unit will increase HP as much as 25 HP, but currently the map is turned down a bit to compensate for variations in cars. I would guess it could give around 20 HP in the right car. Some cars will see no gain. Some may see a loss. We are working on a way to compensate for these variations. We -will- find a way to give most of you the 25 HP this unit is capable of giving. Some cars may never respond well to it.
We are not going to claim it gives "X" HP in all cars! That would not be true. It -would- be typical for this market!
As for the rough idle - we did a lot more testing today. I put a switch in Maurice's test box to put the caps. in and out of circuit. Out of circuit there was a "chirping" noise (which I noticed before but didn't know what was causing it or where it was coming from). Caps in circuit the noise as gone. I then replaced the two suspect coils (leading ones) with new coils and moved the leading to the trailing position. Chirping was gone, even without the caps. Caps still stopped the noise seen on the scopemeter. Removed the unit from the car and checked idle without it. Replaced unit in the car (with caps switched in and out) and the idle was pretty much the same in all three cases, maybe a little better with the caps than without - but about the same stock as Stage 1 with caps. - sometimes it was smooth, sometimes a little rough. When hot, there was more noise without the caps. as seen with the scopemeter.
So, what can I say about all this? I'm happy with the caps. in circuit. I don't like the noise there - it could cause problems. The caps. seem to be harmless re drive levels and they don't mess with the risetime or timing. I think it's a good modification - no downside, perhaps an improvement. They seem to make the car more tolerant of "weak" coils as well. I have no idea if the coils I took out were weak. Other than the noise, I saw no difference - but I was just running the car idling. Maurice will probably be doing map work tonight, and he will be able to tell if the new coils help anything.