Piggyback HP gains
01-03-2007, 04:28 PM
#1
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Piggyback HP gains
What gain must someone expect from installing a Piggyback controller, either it being a Canzoomer, Interceptor or anything else? I mean for a totally stock RX8!
Dyno charts before and after would help!
Thanks!!
Dyno charts before and after would help!
Thanks!!
Last edited by Dr.Race; 01-03-2007 at 04:30 PM.
01-04-2007, 12:33 AM
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Initial tests depending on the tune from the factory were showing good gains (in the 15-20 whp area at high RPMs), but due to updated flashes, and more research what a lot of people are finding is that the piggyback units are now showing only minimal gains, and L(ong)T(erm)F(uel)T(rim) is not really affected.
Better off getting the Racing Beat Flash, as it shows real hp gain in the upper rev range.
Better off getting the Racing Beat Flash, as it shows real hp gain in the upper rev range.
01-04-2007, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Fanman
Better off getting the Racing Beat Flash, as it shows real hp gain in the upper rev range.
01-04-2007, 07:08 AM
#8
the rb reflash isn't going to be doing anything different than a piggyback, it's gains aren't going to be magically better either.
You would get the radiator fans to turn on sooner, which is nice.
You would get the radiator fans to turn on sooner, which is nice.
01-04-2007, 10:03 AM
#9
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The way it works is definitely different. And don't forget about the rev limit increase too 
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17055
Sure you can piggyback a blue for similar power/torque gains for a reasonable amount of money, but the flash would definitely be a cleaner install. It's also good if you're not into tuning.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17055
Sure you can piggyback a blue for similar power/torque gains for a reasonable amount of money, but the flash would definitely be a cleaner install. It's also good if you're not into tuning.
01-04-2007, 12:06 PM
#13
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Originally Posted by Brettus
some before & afters I did - shows quite a decent gain .
.. 165HP something before the RB is pretty low isn't it? Nice how it opened up and allowed HP >8500 rpm!
or perhaps your AU dyno? That would give us even more here in the US with this I guess!
01-04-2007, 12:11 PM
#14
This is typical for RX8 on this type of dyno . Am using an aussie made piggyback "Powermod" .
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-engine-tuning-forum-63/power-mod-ems-104888/
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-engine-tuning-forum-63/power-mod-ems-104888/
01-04-2007, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mysql101
I still think the rev limit increase is more of a gimmick than anything else.
01-04-2007, 12:24 PM
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I have the InterceptorX on my NA and love it. I would say it is about 10-20 increase across the powerband. I dyno'd at 199RWHP and 134torque...on a super hot day....
Swoope has the original dyno charts with the na run and na with intx.
Swoope has the original dyno charts with the na run and na with intx.
01-04-2007, 12:27 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Spin9k
.. 165HP something before the RB is pretty low isn't it? Nice how it opened up and allowed HP >8500 rpm!
or perhaps your AU dyno? That would give us even more here in the US with this I guess!
or perhaps your AU dyno? That would give us even more here in the US with this I guess!
01-13-2007, 01:25 PM
#18
Power!!
Originally Posted by r0tor
yea, getting 1/2 the gains for 2x the price and risk losing the program on a dealer reflash is a wise choice indeed
If you mean the computer will relearn and wipe out their flash then here is what they say about that direct from their website.
"The fact is, in our experience, the PCM will usually build a 2% to 3.5% top level trim, which means the engine is running that much richer than best power mixture. In general, this is a small amount, and will only cause a fraction of 1% loss of power."-Racing Beat
Here's the dyno sheet for all those folks who are afraid to visit the RB website and see for themselves.
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
As far as the dealer is concerned specify that they are not to reflash the computer or don't take it back to them. I agree it's not a great solution to this issue but it's definitely the most hassle free cost effective N/A mod you can buy.
01-13-2007, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by shaunv74
?? don't know what you are implying with this. $295 for ~6 peak hp and gains all up the curve is pretty good for NA gains. That's about $50/hp. The only other type of mod in that price range are turbo systems.
If you mean the computer will relearn and wipe out their flash then here is what they say about that direct from their website.
"The fact is, in our experience, the PCM will usually build a 2% to 3.5% top level trim, which means the engine is running that much richer than best power mixture. In general, this is a small amount, and will only cause a fraction of 1% loss of power."-Racing Beat
Here's the dyno sheet for all those folks who are afraid to visit the RB website and see for themselves.
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
As far as the dealer is concerned specify that they are not to reflash the computer or don't take it back to them. I agree it's not a great solution to this issue but it's definitely the most hassle free cost effective N/A mod you can buy.
If you mean the computer will relearn and wipe out their flash then here is what they say about that direct from their website.
"The fact is, in our experience, the PCM will usually build a 2% to 3.5% top level trim, which means the engine is running that much richer than best power mixture. In general, this is a small amount, and will only cause a fraction of 1% loss of power."-Racing Beat
Here's the dyno sheet for all those folks who are afraid to visit the RB website and see for themselves.
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
As far as the dealer is concerned specify that they are not to reflash the computer or don't take it back to them. I agree it's not a great solution to this issue but it's definitely the most hassle free cost effective N/A mod you can buy.
B) Racing beat raises the afr to the mid 12's... the real power is in the 13-13.5 range and you can get a hell of a lot more then a measly 6hp
01-13-2007, 02:41 PM
#20
Power!!
^^ agree that you can get more by tuning yourself but you can also screw up your engine if you don't know what you're doing. Also you'll need to buy a canscan unit to log data and find out what the affects of your changes are. So if you want to be accurate throw in the cost of that as well.
Bottom line: if you are confident or willing to tune for yourself and have the right tools an emanage or canzoomer unit will give you more for a reasonable price. If you want a no muss no fuss don't want to worrry about it solution Racing Beat is your best option.
Bottom line: if you are confident or willing to tune for yourself and have the right tools an emanage or canzoomer unit will give you more for a reasonable price. If you want a no muss no fuss don't want to worrry about it solution Racing Beat is your best option.
01-13-2007, 07:23 PM
#22
Originally Posted by r0tor
A) you can by a Canzoomer for $200 in the for sale section... add in the price of overnighting for ecu to Racing beat and your at the $400 mark
B) Racing beat raises the afr to the mid 12's... the real power is in the 13-13.5 range and you can get a hell of a lot more then a measly 6hp
B) Racing beat raises the afr to the mid 12's... the real power is in the 13-13.5 range and you can get a hell of a lot more then a measly 6hp
as to how much you gain, that's a matter of your mods, I'm at 214 hp NA on a Mustang dyno fully emissions-legal with an engine that's OE from the throttle body to the exhaust ports and simple bolt-ons and an OE drivetrain, so stop knocking what you don't have a clue about ....
01-13-2007, 09:21 PM
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I know that Mark Gaal (Polak) did the test in RX Tuner with the Canzoomer, and no matter they tried they couldn't get any noticeable hp gain from the unit. Not to mention they had Maurice (owner of CZ) come in a do his own tuning and he got 5 hp (all on the upper range ala RB). Not saying this product doesn't work, as I have seen some people post up their gains/dynos. But even then they were all over the place. Some people showed 20+ hp gains, some showed about 6-8 hp gains. Also I have heard issues with the new flashes basically wiping out the substantial gains that CZ first had, not to mention LTFT issues with the product now. Not sure what if any validity there are as this product has basically gone away and you hardly hear about it anymore.
01-14-2007, 02:29 AM
#24
Power!!
Yep I was the guy that did the side by side comparison with Mark. We did multiple runs trying out the unit on both our cars and didn't see a difference in acceleration. After the initial mazda reflashes came out CZ's unit didn't really get you much out of the box. You had to tune it yourself to get gains out of it like other piggybacks out there.