My 207whp unported N/A E-85 map. (input from experienced tuners appreciated)
07-19-2013, 09:01 AM
#26
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
OP, you will definitely need a proper premix supplement with that level of alcohol, otherwise you chance washing out all the seal lubrication
how clingy you imagine oil to be has no merit
how clingy you imagine oil to be has no merit
If an oil is designed to maintain a film when exposed to alcohol, it will not wash out.
07-19-2013, 12:31 PM
#27
the OMP is pointed to the sides, nothing is going to the center of the apex seal, it will wear down without premix or a center oil injector.
did you change all the fuel lines and the fuel pump to handle e85?
did you change all the fuel lines and the fuel pump to handle e85?
07-19-2013, 05:31 PM
#28
rev it up
Mazda Australia build a turbo Targa car that ran E85 and we believe it produces around 350 hp. It ran really well and at one stage it was within the top three against supercars.
The car is now owned by Ric Shaw. He is a racing driver and owns a specialist rotary workshop in Sydney. He has overhauled the car and now runs it in local events.
E85 has certainly helped with the incredible power output and track reliability. It is a low mount turbo so it must be running well over 1 bar of boost to maintain the power.
The car is now owned by Ric Shaw. He is a racing driver and owns a specialist rotary workshop in Sydney. He has overhauled the car and now runs it in local events.
E85 has certainly helped with the incredible power output and track reliability. It is a low mount turbo so it must be running well over 1 bar of boost to maintain the power.
07-20-2013, 08:36 AM
#33
If OMP delivery is increased (which was done as part of the OEM reflashes to increase reliability) you get sufficient lubrication in the center of the housing. The problem is that you are injecting more oil than is strictly needed for lubrication. This leads to hugely increased HC emissions.
With the third injector in the S2 cars, total oil delivery was brought way down, while still maintaining acceptable lubrication.
08-08-2013, 04:52 PM
#35
Nice job and great info! Have an 04 I would love try this map on. Access Tuner Race won't load it though. I'm assuming because of the year differences. Any way to get it to work?
08-08-2013, 06:33 PM
#37
I tried to load it in Access Tuner Race to view it. I would love to translate what the OP has learned into a tune.
08-08-2013, 06:56 PM
#38
Not to mention that he is using an aftermarket higher output fuel pump which isn't STX class legal and without which you won't have enough fuel supply to handle E85, assuming your motor is making decent output
If the map is unlocked you should be able to view it in the appropriate model year ATR program. IMO it doesn't really offer anything of value if you already understand how to tune with an AP. The OPs method and ability to tune an AP effectively is also in question. Every DD dyno for a Renesis I've ever seen reads high too in my experience, so the value may not be what you think it is. Copy and use it at your own risk. I can already tell you there aren't any secrets in there.
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If the map is unlocked you should be able to view it in the appropriate model year ATR program. IMO it doesn't really offer anything of value if you already understand how to tune with an AP. The OPs method and ability to tune an AP effectively is also in question. Every DD dyno for a Renesis I've ever seen reads high too in my experience, so the value may not be what you think it is. Copy and use it at your own risk. I can already tell you there aren't any secrets in there.
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Last edited by TeamRX8; 08-08-2013 at 07:08 PM.
08-09-2013, 04:31 AM
#39
If OMP delivery is increased (which was done as part of the OEM reflashes to increase reliability) you get sufficient lubrication in the center of the housing. The problem is that you are injecting more oil than is strictly needed for lubrication. This leads to hugely increased HC emissions.
With the third injector in the S2 cars, total oil delivery was brought way down, while still maintaining acceptable lubrication.
With the third injector in the S2 cars, total oil delivery was brought way down, while still maintaining acceptable lubrication.
08-09-2013, 07:54 PM
#40
Not to mention that he is using an aftermarket higher output fuel pump which isn't STX class legal and without which you won't have enough fuel supply to handle E85, assuming your motor is making decent output
If the map is unlocked you should be able to view it in the appropriate model year ATR program. IMO it doesn't really offer anything of value if you already understand how to tune with an AP. The OPs method and ability to tune an AP effectively is also in question. Every DD dyno for a Renesis I've ever seen reads high too in my experience, so the value may not be what you think it is. Copy and use it at your own risk. I can already tell you there aren't any secrets in there.
.
If the map is unlocked you should be able to view it in the appropriate model year ATR program. IMO it doesn't really offer anything of value if you already understand how to tune with an AP. The OPs method and ability to tune an AP effectively is also in question. Every DD dyno for a Renesis I've ever seen reads high too in my experience, so the value may not be what you think it is. Copy and use it at your own risk. I can already tell you there aren't any secrets in there.
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Unable to install 06-08 ATR with my Accessport. Says it's incompatible. If I extract the files from the .exe and try to run it says it's missing the license file. Am I'm missing something?
No-coast, any chance you can post this in spreadsheet or .csv format?
08-09-2013, 09:48 PM
#41
You'll end up worse than what I already told you since the OE pump output won't come any where close to the pressure and flow of the pump he is using.
The AP for the RX8 is not model year specific, only the maps and ATR software are. You need to request ATR for the model year of the map, then install it on your desktop/laptop computer using your AP. You can then open the map and copy info from that map into the ATR program/map for your car.
That you feel the need to use that map only demonstrates a lack of basic understanding and insight for the process you're attempting to engage in and as further demonstrated in your previous reply to Brettus. You may be better served to have someone more knowledgable doing this for you instead.
The AP for the RX8 is not model year specific, only the maps and ATR software are. You need to request ATR for the model year of the map, then install it on your desktop/laptop computer using your AP. You can then open the map and copy info from that map into the ATR program/map for your car.
That you feel the need to use that map only demonstrates a lack of basic understanding and insight for the process you're attempting to engage in and as further demonstrated in your previous reply to Brettus. You may be better served to have someone more knowledgable doing this for you instead.
08-09-2013, 10:39 PM
#42
You'll end up worse than what I already told you since the OE pump output won't come any where close to the pressure and flow of the pump he is using.
The AP for the RX8 is not model year specific, only the maps and ATR software are. You need to request ATR for the model year of the map, then install it on your desktop/laptop computer using your AP. You can then open the map and copy info from that map into the ATR program/map for your car.
That you feel the need to use that map only demonstrates a lack of basic understanding and insight for the process you're attempting to engage in and as further demonstrated in your previous reply to Brettus. You may be better served to have someone more knowledgable doing this for you instead.
The AP for the RX8 is not model year specific, only the maps and ATR software are. You need to request ATR for the model year of the map, then install it on your desktop/laptop computer using your AP. You can then open the map and copy info from that map into the ATR program/map for your car.
That you feel the need to use that map only demonstrates a lack of basic understanding and insight for the process you're attempting to engage in and as further demonstrated in your previous reply to Brettus. You may be better served to have someone more knowledgable doing this for you instead.
ATR says it's not compatible.
http://genxracer.blogspot.com/2013/08/blog-post.html
Edit: Will try uninstalling from my car first.
Last edited by JeffH; 08-09-2013 at 10:43 PM.
08-12-2013, 07:06 PM
#43
No-coast.. tested the map on my 04. Dropped timing down a few degrees to start and zeroed the oil metering. Ran pre-mix to compensate.
Overall I had moderate success with it. The idle was poor but driveability was great. Open loop was lean down low to mid range and rich up top. Tried your method of VE tuning but was not able to fully compensate. Have to see if the ecu will report fuel pressure. If not then I'll connect a gauge. First time using ATR so it's a learning process.
Overall I had moderate success with it. The idle was poor but driveability was great. Open loop was lean down low to mid range and rich up top. Tried your method of VE tuning but was not able to fully compensate. Have to see if the ecu will report fuel pressure. If not then I'll connect a gauge. First time using ATR so it's a learning process.
08-20-2013, 08:32 PM
#44
there is no way you can run full E85 on the OE fuel system and be rich up top, the only exception is if the motor is way down on potential power output. A good motor on E85 will be way lean as neither the OE pump or injectors have the flow capacity for it.
pre-mix is also not STX legal
but generally speaking, you clearly haven't researched any of what's necessary and seem to have little understanding in general, so I was only trying to warn you off from possibly f'ing something up right before Nats
pre-mix is also not STX legal
but generally speaking, you clearly haven't researched any of what's necessary and seem to have little understanding in general, so I was only trying to warn you off from possibly f'ing something up right before Nats
08-21-2013, 08:32 AM
#45
there is no way you can run full E85 on the OE fuel system and be rich up top, the only exception is if the motor is way down on potential power output. A good motor on E85 will be way lean as neither the OE pump or injectors have the flow capacity for it.
pre-mix is also not STX legal
but generally speaking, you clearly haven't researched any of what's necessary and seem to have little understanding in general, so I was only trying to warn you off from possibly f'ing something up right before Nats
pre-mix is also not STX legal
but generally speaking, you clearly haven't researched any of what's necessary and seem to have little understanding in general, so I was only trying to warn you off from possibly f'ing something up right before Nats
I won't disagree that the stock fuel system as a package doesn't have enough overhead. I've yet to find that it does. I do find it odd though that it's only occurring at low RPMs. Every indication I've had so far with the car is that the motor is not soft. Log below:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VE&usp=sharing
Most are aware pre-mix is not legal. Then again, I hope no one has run fuel injector cleaner or any other additive either.
I won't use it for competition runs if I were to run E85.
08-23-2013, 05:24 AM
#46
It looks pretty weak, are you sure that this mod isn't costing you power?
Off the shelf additive cleaners and such are not the same thing. Given the emphasis on the fuel rules this year it won't be any surprise if fuel samples are collected/analyzed, fuel systems inspected, or paper filed in ST this year.
Off the shelf additive cleaners and such are not the same thing. Given the emphasis on the fuel rules this year it won't be any surprise if fuel samples are collected/analyzed, fuel systems inspected, or paper filed in ST this year.
08-23-2013, 10:54 AM
#48
It looks pretty weak, are you sure that this mod isn't costing you power?
Off the shelf additive cleaners and such are not the same thing. Given the emphasis on the fuel rules this year it won't be any surprise if fuel samples are collected/analyzed, fuel systems inspected, or paper filed in ST this year.
Off the shelf additive cleaners and such are not the same thing. Given the emphasis on the fuel rules this year it won't be any surprise if fuel samples are collected/analyzed, fuel systems inspected, or paper filed in ST this year.
It may be the car. Comparibly it's only power mod is a cat back though. The cat on wasn't very high flow at 4" in diameter and 300cpi. Logs done back in January (new coils in August) show slightly lower g/sec values with stock air box as well with arguably better conditions. Time intervals between RPM were similar.
08-23-2013, 10:57 AM
#49
Without diverting too far off topic, from rule book:
"Stock and Street Touring® category vehicles will use fuel is which is
“Federally approved for use on public highways.” This includes the
pump fuel known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which
are available at service station pumps."
Done a bit of research on oils that will not break down or turn to sludge. Seems Pennzoil Ultra, Castrol Edge, Amsoil are a few that have potential. Diesel oils have been recommended as well. Shell couldn't provide any info though. There have been a few in the Mazdaspeed 3 forums who have had sludge build up but are not sure if it was related to Rotella T.
I won't be using E85 on the street as gas mileage takes a pretty big hit.
"Stock and Street Touring® category vehicles will use fuel is which is
“Federally approved for use on public highways.” This includes the
pump fuel known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which
are available at service station pumps."
Done a bit of research on oils that will not break down or turn to sludge. Seems Pennzoil Ultra, Castrol Edge, Amsoil are a few that have potential. Diesel oils have been recommended as well. Shell couldn't provide any info though. There have been a few in the Mazdaspeed 3 forums who have had sludge build up but are not sure if it was related to Rotella T.
I won't be using E85 on the street as gas mileage takes a pretty big hit.
Last edited by JeffH; 08-23-2013 at 11:06 AM.
08-28-2013, 10:43 PM
#50
Sorry to respond so late. Work has been straight up stupid.
From what I have seen, the premix thing is a serious grey area. The SCCA rules simply state:
A. Stock and Street Touring® category vehicles will use fuel is which is
“Federally approved for use on public highways.” This includes the
pump fuel known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which
are available at service station pumps.
Technically, the addition of two stroke oil does not make a fuel illegal for highway use. There is literally ZERO in the 2013 rules about this.
To the exact letter of the rules, there is nothing that prohibits premixing. It really confers no performance benefit at all other than engine longevity. It is still in keeping with the spirit of the STX rules that allow for oil pan modifications for the same reasons.
From what I have seen, the premix thing is a serious grey area. The SCCA rules simply state:
A. Stock and Street Touring® category vehicles will use fuel is which is
“Federally approved for use on public highways.” This includes the
pump fuel known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which
are available at service station pumps.
Technically, the addition of two stroke oil does not make a fuel illegal for highway use. There is literally ZERO in the 2013 rules about this.
To the exact letter of the rules, there is nothing that prohibits premixing. It really confers no performance benefit at all other than engine longevity. It is still in keeping with the spirit of the STX rules that allow for oil pan modifications for the same reasons.