Actually, I wasn't looking at the topological. I was looking at the actual timing values.

Even with my limited tunning knowledge, I know that you can make more tq with adjusting the timming between the leading and trailing plugs.

I'm more of a hardware design kinda guy.

MM..
Hymmee..

Humm, this thread is going to get interesting.

As for my kit that will be ready by 7stock this year, I have officially chosen Hymee for the management because I want the global advantage that I hear of so much. And.... I'm going to twist Hymee's arm and have him tune my set-up remotely, even though he dosemt know it yet...lol. But I guess now "Mark", now you know.

Hymee, I hope to get it to you this weekend. I'm going to pm you with the N/A set-up I'm working on to get the car ready for the addition of the S/C components.

you'd be surprised at the effect split has on the renesis

While I admit that the timing map is a bit unconventional, it doesn't look bad to me. It just looks different. I especially find it interesting how much advance he can run at higher load levels. Of course we aren't seeing split at all either nor are we seeing what octane fuel this was on or what intake temps were. There's an awful lot that can affect this so I can't say it looks bad in any way. It obviously works.

I've seen many different styles of tuning from no split to tons to negative and the leading maps are all very different between them. If you are used to seeing one particular style all day, another one can appear very strange. I myself am actually rethinking how I tune as I have a hunch there's a better way.

I would be surprised if it gave me more then 15whp and 20wtq. I know you can pull that off with the FD. I know they de-tuned the renny a bit for the states/emmisions. I know the engine has potential, it's all in the tunning.

Well gotta get the kid from school, later guys.

think you are looking at it wrong . The map is basically stock NA from 100% load down then pretty much as we discussed a while back from then upwards . The timing is backed off a little from what was on Hymees' base map .

Additionally, the timing numbers I posted were direct from a stock NA map. I am refraining from posting a screen shot from that other software but it has essentially the same values, and the graph "looks" the same. Except it doesn't look sexy and easy to read like mine. Am I allowed to post a comparo pic??

So I don't get how/why the timing numbers can be called as looking screwed...

Cheers,
Hymee.

lol, its DEAD SEXY (in a Mike Myers scottish accent) !!

I'm allowed to! ;)

wtb comparo pic ;)

Attached.
The AccessPORT software is pretty sexy, actually.
The text portion is color-scaled just like the contour map, so it is easy to correlate points from one to the other.
The contour map can be freely rotated in real time with the mouse as well, so you can get different perspectives on how it is shaping up.


BTW - I figured out what I was reading wrong in your ignition map.
Its very confusing they way you have it laid out, but now I get it.

Love the thread crappage. Typical.

Nice software Hymee.

:icon_no2:

:spank:

Colouring the grid cells isn't anything new or unique. HP Tuners does it, and I did that 3 years ago on my prototype - I just haven't put that bit in the release yet.

Spinning the surface chart with the mouse has always been there (refer the screen cam I posted earlier).

Cheers,
Hymee.

Of course not.
Hondata was doing it 10 years ago.
And AEM. And Haltech. Etc.
But it is very useful.


Excellent.

So the two packages are roughly equivalent, on the surface at least.

Was recently on Cobb's website, and they have an announcement regarding incorporating MAP as an adjunct/replacement to the MAF (for the Subarus)...any thoughts on this being a possibility with the RX-8 pcm? I realize the Pro Tuner was a recent release and I'm already asking for more...but I think you know why I'd be interested in the possibility of such a feature...;)

That capability is already incorporated in the RX-8 as it stands right now, in a way.
We are integrating MAP and MAF with the AP right now on some boosted applications.
I think it would be really easy for Hymee to do the same, so it is very likely that he will.

I've been wondering for a while why no one had taken this step, but clearly someone had. Whoever comes out with it for the RX-8, I think in the future there will be a market...or heck even now for the kits that weren't engineered to accomodate MAF. Are they using like a GM 3 bar sensor?

Well, this is not an AccessPORT thread, so there is no point in my going into depth on that here.
Suffice to say the RX-8 already comes from Mazda with the capacity to operate the way the Subarus do with a joint MAF/MAP setup.

/\Is there any advantage in that setup if you already have reliable maf readings ?

MAF Technology supercedes MAP only technology and allows much more accurate fuelling. The "MAP maps"* in the RX-8 are there, primarily as a failover mode if/when the MAF fails, and it goes to a "limp mode" based on the less accurate Speed/Density maps.

Possible, but not something I am really that interested in as I am a MAF convert.

Cheers,
Hymee.

*They are not actually MAP maps. They are BAROmetric adjustment maps. The "MAP" sensor is a BARO sensor as it isn't in the intake, although I assume that is what one would be doing in this case.

I agree that MAF supercedes, but in your experience do you see the Renesis being able to exceed 1 bar on the MAF and still be capable of doing its job effectively?

Yes.
The MAF reads the air into the motor, but a MAP helps you decide where that air is actually going.
It is particularly useful in "trimming" what the PCM has calculated as its load at that moment.

Its actually more than that.
You are just looking at the one-row BARO correction table.

First of all, the old mantra:

FLOW is not PRESSURE.
"1 BAR" might mean a wide range of things.

That said, I exceed 1 bar pretty regularly with the factory MAF and my calibrations.

What I am talking about here is NOT a MAF replacement.
Rather, it is a supplement to the MAF in deciding how to handle the movement of positive air displacement above N/A.

On a "draw through" setup, this makes no difference.

On a "push through" setup, it shouldn't make any difference (hot-wire MAF is not subject to pressure variations), as the MAF is measuring the mass flow, based on the cooling effect of the air molecules on the hot-wire. I'm doing some of my own research on the applicability of having a pressurised MAF, but there are OEM and aftermarket setups out there that have the MAF on the boost side. In the end, it (mass flow) is a measurment used to determine load. And these PCM's use load based tuning.

Cheers,
Hymee.

What actually happens is somewhat different than the "theory", unfortunately.
Having manifold pressure as a reference on top of mass flow gives you the ability to be proactive with regards to load delta.