smrx8

iTrader: (1)

Well finally had my car dyno with canzoomer stage 1.1 on and then with it off my car pulled 183 hp at the wheels with no computer flashes done on the car the only mod. i have are an exhaust from racing beat. the canzoomer unit made 0 gains on my car 600.00 dollars down the drain iam calling maurice to see if maybe i hooked it up wrong hopefully its that, i keep everyone posted. the strange think about this is iam almost 100 % sure i hooked it up correct because it idle rough then when i swicth it off it runs normal.

Omicron

Why does this same issue keep getting posted? Doesn't anybody READ these forum?

Sorry smrx8, its's not you, it's just frustrating to keep explaining the same damn thing over and over and over again!

The CanZoomer mod does not always work perfectly for everyone, every time, right out of the box! 95% of the time it does result in measureable gains, but the other 5% of the RX-8s on the road have to have the unit customized to work perfectly with them.

Why is this so? Because Mazda's MAF (mass air flow) sensors have a fairly wide tolerance. The CanZoomer unit "keys" on the MAF voltage to decide what to adjust, and those that have MAFs that fall at the extreme voltage end of the tolerance range, the CZ unit can't decide what to adjust.

So what can you do? Return it, or spend the extra $130 and get the programming cable and software. It's not hard to tune it, and can result in your gaining MORE horsepower than the relatively conservative map the basic CZ unit comes with.

sea-rx8

So to talk out of my *** here.......would cleaning his MAF help his situation. If the MAF if having problems deciding what to adjust ...maybe it is not getitng a good reading....and a cleaning might help????? I don't know...just posting this as a question

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

i understand your point omicron, but 0 gain for 600.00 $ thats unacceptable to top it off the dam thing wont let you program it.were not sure if its the unit or what. i do have the cable and sofware.

IKnowNot'ing

Omicron,

I did a search on Canzoomer / MAF / tolerance with no success. Can you direct me to a post explaining this issue in more technical details (including how it's supposed to work, as "keys" does not mean anything to me) or, if it hasn't been done before, could you do it for us in this thread.

Thanks,

IKN

Lufa

That and the fact that every single time someone has dyno'd CZ 1,1.1 what ever, there has been little to no gain.

No major gains in track times, well the one time slip we have seen, and modest gains if any using a G-tech, which I really don't count as a reliable tool. The only gains most people are seeing is from the exhaust/cat mods...

Is it your contention that it's the 5% that are measuring this entire time? Sure some people were seeing losses or minor gains with older flashes (K,L), but once they put M on, still little to no gain.

Call me cynical, or call me a prudent consumer, I have been delaying my purchase until something more concrete than a butt-dyno shows this to be a worthwhile mod. Posts like this justify the wait in my mind.

Omicron

It's a thought, and it's been tried with mixed results. But cleaning the MAF won't solve the problem if the sensor itself is producing values that are on the low or high side.

One thing that hasn't been tried yet, far as I know, is replacing the MAF sensor with a new one. Dunno how much they even are, but it might be worth a try.

Omicron

I'd love to explain this fully IKN, but don't have the time right now. I'm at work, so my posting time availability is spotty at best. But if you spend some time reading the multiple threads about problems with the CZ unit in CanZoomer's forum, you'll soon come to the same conclusion I have. My conclusion is based on the fact that I have one of those fringe cars, from speaking in detail with Maurice about it, and from hearing a steady stream of complaints about this same thing.

Omicron

$600 for 20-30 HP + gain - IF you're willing to tune it - is a hell of a bargain. If you're not willing to tune it, by all means send it back. It would have been nice if it had worked perfectly out of the box for you, but it didn't, so there ya go.

As for tuning it, I had the same problem getting the software to work at first. Here's what you do:

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smrx8

iTrader: (1)

omicron if i recall right you said you fix the problems with your unit.yet i searched but found nothing stating you dyno the car with it on and off how could you be sure .hell i thought my car was way faster with it on then off .my point being is everyone who owns one better go out and dyno the car or test it to make sure were we at.iam not here to bash noone just here to inform the rx8 community.

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

oh sorry i forgot to mention iam not tuning my unit a performance shop is.i gave them the number to maurice to contact hopefully everything gets resolved.

IKnowNot'ing

OK fair enough. I'll keep on searching.

Thanks,

IKN

Omicron

No, I have not dyno'd my car since I got my CZ unit working correctly. I have GTech'd it tho, and that shows +25 HP.

Why haven't I dyno'd it? For one thing, it's not easy for me to do as there are no dyno shops close. Secondly and even more importantly, I don't trust dyno results on the RX-8. This car is HUGELY hard to dyno accurately, and until that's figured out, I'll stick with my GTech. It's kind of a more accurate, replicatible form of a "butt dyno." :D

Omicron

My contention is that all you hear about on these forums is the 5% of people who don't have the thing work perfectly out of the box. The other 95% plug the unit in, love it, then don't say **** about it.

This is the same thing as people who don't own this car coming onto this forum and, after reading a bit, deciding that (a) the RX-8 floods every few seconds (b) it's so slow it can't get out of the way of a Yugo (c) it gets 5 MPG on a good day. All BS, but that's what the minority of vocal people who complain make it look like. Same thing with the Canzoomer unit.

Thousands of these units have been sold now. And if you go out and count the number of complaints on these forums you may find 20 people who've had problems. But they complain in multiple threads, and to whoever will listen, so before long it looks like there's nothing but problems with the unit. Not true.

shelleys_man_06

I think we should throw the dyno results in the garbage, stop bench racing, and take our cars to the track where it matters.

Lufa

I agree... so here is the one and only set of timeslips results posted to this site using CZ's mod thanks to Velocity8.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/canzoomer-1-4mile-also-other-mods-1-4mile-25075/page4/

CZ1.1 Off

2.26 60'
15.47 1/4 mile @ 91.6


CZ1.1 On

2.28 60'
15.20 1/4 mile @ 93.6

now using this HP calculator's method of determining HP (3100lbs):
CZ off =
Trap Speed Method: approx. 186 HP
ET Method: approx. 165 HP

CZ on=
Trap Speed Method: approx. 198 HP
ET Method: approx. 174 HP

at any rate 2 traps at very hot track temps/humidity that killed HP accross the board. +12 or +9 HP, and keep in mind variance like that can happen very easily without the mod difference, it could be a lot greater, or even less. This is the best representation we have at this time as to what this mod does, unfortunatly. I need to know more before blowing 600bucks.

With thousands of units out there (I think a couple hundred is probably more accurate), certainly someone else has gone to the track?

Omicron

I am all for using quantifiable measurements from the track. In fact, I think it's one of the best ways to measure performance improvements. But I'm not willing to go trash my car drag racing it every mod I make to satisfy people who are wondering about this mod and that. Are you? I think this is where most people are with this.

And besides, there will be others who will say that the track is not a good measurement either... unless the cars, drivers, and track conditions are identical in every respect.

So there you have it. Some people say dyno's suck. Some say GTechs suck. Some say track comparisons suck. Where's that leave us?

Lufa

Right where we started I suppose... I am anxious for information and frustrated that there is so little, I can wait, it's not like my 8 "needs" a mod to have fun in it.

One question however... you are claiming +25hp, is that all your mods added up? or just g-tech runs cz on vs. cz off?

+25 with what you have would be that I expect, are you getting +30 +40?

Magic8

Omi,

What criteria did you use to tune the advance? I understand a/f ratio you want to keep below stoc (14.2, is that right) probably around 13.5, but what about the advance?

Am I close or am I off the mark.

Omicron

Yes, that's ~25 WHP over and above my other mods. Here's the breakdown of my mods, according to my GTech, in the order I put them on:

Borla Exhaust: +3HP
Earth Ground Kit: no noticible gain
CanZoomer Stage 1.2 ECU Mod: + 24 WHP (after tuning)
CanZoomer CZMidP-4 High Flow/Temp Cat & Resonator: + 8 WHP

Dyno run done 12/06/03, max WHP was 178.38 with just the Borla. (Note: I'm at ~6000 feet elevation here, so these results are lower than they would be at sea level. If you correct for elevation, my max WHP would be ~188 WHP)

So by extrapolation using the GTech's results:

178.38 + 24 + 8 = 210.38 WHP. It'll be interesting to see what the "real" dyno number is if/when I get up to the dyno shop again.

But frankly, I'm not that motivated to do so. Forced induction may well be in my immediate future, and if I get that I just can't see myself caring that much anymore what the CZ unit adds to the car. :D

Omicron

I actually have not messed with CanZoomer's A/F settings much. I pretty much just backed off his ignition advance until I got my car to stop pinging (and retarding power when it does!) which took me several tries over 2 days to get right. She runs sweet now, and the 'ol GTech says +24 HP. I'm sure I can tweak the A/F and get another 5 WHP out of it.

Magic8

Thanks,

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

guys,
Omi is right here about a lot of the differant factors concerning the cz mod. Discussions concerning subjective data will never end. Even dynos and tracks can have so many varibles to make them inconclusive. Now my reality is this. I have a cz 1,m flash and the racing beat cat back. I will let anyone drive my car(with me in it of course) IN A SANE MANNER with the unit on and then the unit removed. If you can't tell the differance then I don't know what to say. It's obvious that it is a very good mod ON MY CAR. I feel like I have to back CanZoomer up here as the man has done good work for a resonable price. He has gone over and beyond usual service to some members who have had unsatisfactory INITAL results with their unit. smrx8 I understand it's fustrating. But keep the faith baby!
olddragger

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

like i said before i just trying to warn you guys not to go with your butt dyno i had my unit for over a month and all along i felt an increase wow was i wrong thats my point.right know my car is in the shop waiting for maurice to call them back i spoke to him today and he told me hes busy i explained the problem and he said for the shop to email him as he has many calls. not what i expected to here .i will call the shop tommorow and see if they got in touch with him.

-8-

WOW! He knocked off a whopping .2 seconds off his time and still couldn't manage to get into the 14s.

If some of you think that spending $600 is OK if you have to spend another $130 to get something to tune it if it doesn't like your car, then you must be very lax about throwing money away. I along with many others here think that for that kind of money you'd either get the gains it promised AND give you the option to tune it.

I for one won't be shelling out money for this thing. Too many people haven't been happy with it, and like someone said here, butt dynos and GTECH #s mean absolute dick.

"Yeah, I can definitely feel the difference - at 5000 RPMs it seems to pull harder". OK, people....sure....