It's been weeks now that few of you guy's received the Canzoomer Stage 1, so any comments?

Yes, after 5000 RPM it's a blast, but really to do see that much difference?

 

It's a blast after 5000 RPMS!!

 

Seriously though...

You notice a difference if you frequently floor it past 5K RPM in 1st and 2nd gear... otherwise, probably not..

Don't expect it to really pin you to the seat either.. it feels about the same.. just quicker..

I notice it more when i stare at the RPM's as it climbs.. the needle moves faster with Stage I.

And when I say quicker I mean probably around .5 second (just a guess)

 

I can definatly tell that the curves of torque are different. It's just that you have to use them.....or know that they are there for the using.

....just last night I was leaving my brother-in-laws house and as I travelled down his street when suddenly, someone was on my back and very close at that. I thought, "okay, I'll move over and let him pass - maybe it's a cop or something."

As soon as he passes me, I see that it is a Miata. I think to myself, "Okay, let's show him what it's got". He and I then proceed to drive the twistys for the next mile; He never got away. As I pulled up beside him when we got to light for the freeway, both of us had this big grin and gave each other the thumbs up. I didn't really get to touch the full power of the car....it's there though, and I know it ......and love it.

- in a nutshell..or....I mean, ECU cover, THE STAGE 1 ROCKS!!!!!

....come on; let's hear some more stories.

 

Anyone willing should do this test:

Ask someone to turn OFF or ON the switch on the ECU without telling you, go for a test drive to see if you can guess it.

Simon.

 

I think that the Stage 1 has been a little over hyped. Don't get me wrong, I think it is an awesome mod but I feel that a lot of people are expecting it transform the RX-8 into a beast that can out run an EVO. That's not going to happen with this mod.

What you will notice is that the engine runs significantly smoother and it is most noticeable at idle. The best way to feel the change in power is to start out slowly in 2nd gear, get the clutch engaged, then mash the throttle and do not let up until redline.

When the car is stock, the engine slowly starts to build power and there is a linear increase until you hit 7k RPMs. At that point the power starts to fall off and your rate of acceleration slows a little bit.

With the Stage 1 installed, the engine slowly starts to build power. When you pass 5k RPMs there is a definite surge in acceleration and you get pressed back into your seat. When you reach 7.5k RPMs you will feel another surge in power (a little smaller than the first one) and it continues to pull hard to 8.5k RPMs.

Another thing to note is that the engine is little quieter because it is running so smoothly. That kind of took a little bit of fun out of my Borla exhaust. Before it used to growl under hard acceleration and let out a couple of pops on decceleration. Now it just purrs all of the way to the redline line beeper and only lets out an occasional pop.

All in all I feel that the Stage 1 is the best bang for your buck mod that is currently available. Nice job Maurice! :D

 

I agree -- expectations are a little too high for this great mod.

Maybe CZ should have called this Stage 0 -- remember this is designed to get us back to where we were supposed to be before the emissions police raped us -- not turn the 8 into a track ready monster. I imagine that Stage 2 is a more noticable raw power upgrade from stock.

 

It does exactly what I thought it would do :D

People just need to remember that 25HP isnt that much in the butt dyno area. I remember the commonly quoted 10HP being the minimum you'll feel, so 25 isnt gonna be THAT huge a push.

Now to figure out that little dip at 4K RPM.

 

All I'm looking for from Stage 1 is a little bit of a "hit" to the 8's powerband to make it feel a little more exciting, and be a little quicker.

From all accounts, Stage 1 does that.

Enough for me. I'll pony up when I order my car in April. (finances dictate a bit of a wait)

 

Certainly hope that Stage 2 actually comes. I know Maurice is hard at work filling Stage 1 orders, but there has not even been a wimper about Stage 2 for a LONG time. Forget stage 1, it is only for the interim time till I get Stage 2. I do want to hang with EVOS, and I hope Stage 2 can help me out with that. Too bad I am still waiting for Stage 1. Patience my son..

 

I'm right there with ya bro!

 

Good to hear some additional reports. Thanks.

I'm "patiently" waiting for mine too!

 

Stage 2, hmm, lets see. It was -30 for the last 2 weeks. Canzoomer's car wouldn't start - for over a week (WELL flooded! - that's what trying to start a rotary at -30 without a block heater will do). It's running now. We -are- working on Stage 2. I just finished a module with the extra bits needed for prototyping (previously we had tested on the dyno to see what could be done - now we're working on the best way to do what we know we can). I suspect it will still take a few months before we are ready. It is, after all, still the middle of winter. The roads are still covered with snow and ice. Also as you say, we are fighting the "Murphy" gremlins re getting Stage 1 into high volume production. And as I keep saying, Stage 2 is close enough to the "edge" that we have to make sure we do it right!

 

regarding stage 2: sorry if this has been covered-

But how will the new maps get into stage 1 ecu piggybacks- can we flash it ourselves with a PC, do we have to send you guys back the ECU add on? Also will there be an additional cost- or if we just buy the stage 2 downpipe and cat will the ECU be a free upgrade?

Last question- this may just be speculation at this point- but do you think stage 2 will have any effect below 5000 rpm?

 

What IS that little dip at 4K? Aux ports opening?

 

The Stage 1 unit will have to be returned for installation of the necessary hardware and software. Maurice hasn't said what the cost will be. Stage 2 will have an effect below 5000 RPM, but how much is not known (by me, anyway). That 4K dip is port changes, and we are working on ways to reduce it.

Kind of funny, but that little dip causes wheelspin with Stage 1 equipped cars. How? Well, the driver senses the dip, and presses further on the accellerator. Then the 5500 burst occurs while the pedal is depressed most of the way, causing the wheelspin . It's a genuine "gotcha".

 

Friend - What is involved in reducing that dip? Is it an adjustment of the fuel curve or something of the like? Will it be difficult to figure out and fix? Or is not a fix and just the nature of the beast? Since the 8 is so linearand smooth in it's acceleration, it's almost as if there is a slight hiccup at 4k which disturbs that feel. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

Ahh, but that's a secret! Seriously, we've got a few ideas. We'll see what works. A little tweeking here, a little tweeking there. It's caused by a sudden change in the intake tract disturbing the air flow (we think).

 

So if you guys find out what the solution is for the dip how would someone obtain this updated mod? Or would they have to send their mod in for an update?

Thankx!

Great stories about the mod.. I enjoy reading about them.

 

David, could you elaborate a bit on this "on the edge" thing you keep mentioning? Maybe it's obvious to people who've been tuning cars for a while, but sorry, it's not to me.

What I really want to know is, is this going to make the car less reliable? Less apt to start? More apt to die? What specifically do you mean?

 

"On the edge" would mean closer to the performance limits that the engine can reach (in NA form) before risking breakdown. Things like detonation and possibly overheating are some of the possibilities that may result from going over that edge.

 

rxtreme has most of it. See, to get more performance, you run closer to perfect air/fuel, or you introduce more air and fuel, or you use fuel with more energy, or combinations. You can't run -at- perfect air/fuel because there are too many variables such as:
1. Fuel can vary in ability to resist detonation from tank to tank.
2. Outside temp. varies, thus changing air density and fuel density and the car's compensation devices may or may not be accurate enough.
3. Altitude changes affect air density - air density affects how much O2 there is to burn the fuel. Again, the car's sensor may or may not be accurate enough.
4. Air filter may get dirty, affecting intake pressure and hence volume.
5. Engine may build up deposits in the combustion chamber. This can raise compression ratio a bit, and/or introduce ignition sources (hot deposits) than can cause pre-ignition (before the spark). It doesn't take much to ignite a near perfect air/fuel.
6. Too many more, lots that I don't even know about or couldn't imagine.
Another technique is to use more spark advance. This has lots of effects, many of which I have no clue, but one is the compression of the mixture in the chamber rises sooner, and so more fuel is burned, and therefore more pressure is generated to push on the output shaft. Again, this must be controlled, because if it rises too soon, it tries to push the rotor backwards - not a good thing . This introduces even more variables.

Sooo, to remain "safe" (stay away from pre-ignition and detonation) we (us and Mazda) have to use mixtures that have too much fuel and spark timing that is really safe. These mixtures resist igniting until they are lit up by a spark.

Stage 2 will take us closer to the "edge". The operator of the vehicle has to be careful not to introduce too many variables, so as not to go over the edge. Bad things would happen! Things the operator could do include changing the intake or exhaust. Changing the fuel. On a very hot day, climbing a mountain pass. I'm not saying any of these things would cause engine damage. I'm saying they would have a greater chance with Stage 2 than Stage 1 or stock.

As one who owns a 3rd gen modified RX-7, if I were to install stage 2, I would also install a J&S knock preventer system. Maybe even a wideband O2 readout of some kind. With Stage 2 you need to know what you're doing. It's not "plug and play" like Stage 1.

To answer your questions, the car will be just as reliable as long as you keep it on the safe side of air/fuel. It will start easier. It will have no effect on the engine dieing unless you run too lean. It will shorten the life a bit. Any time you extract more power from an engine it shortens its' life. It runs hotter for one thing.

One thing you didn't ask - "is it legal". I'm pretty sure stage 2 would not be. It -might- pass emissions tests. It would not pass visual or strict EPA2 rules. Stage 1 would probably pass emissions tests with no problem. Stage 1 may or may not meet EPA2 rules - probably not or Mazda would have used the fuel map we do, wouldn't they?

 

Hmmmm, ok, good answer. Sounds like at my elevation (5200 ft) I'd almost certainly have to go with the programming cable and software so as to tweak things and keep them in a safe range. Especially since I have both the Borla catback exhaust, will soon have the high flow/temp cat, and have the RE intake. I'd also need to be cognizent of when I'm climbing a mountain pass (we have a few of those here in Colorado ) and maybe turn the mod "off" before I do so. Hmmm.

How about a stage 1.5? :D

 

Don't be too impatient. We have ideas to improve Stage 1 (make it better lower down in the RPM range). They would be available as upgrades to current Stage 1 units. Probably not for six months or so.

Technology never stands still (or we get run over .

As for Stage 2 high temp./flow cat., it's already in the tuning, as it's required. The stock cat. would melt/collapse I suspect. I was referring to cat. back systems "better" than the ones currently out there. You just know someone will try an open exhaust WOT run. That could tax the edges of reliability.

 

Now THAT is good news! :D