+45 hp should put you closer to the EVO's and STI's... but not there yet. If u assume 15% driveline loss and that the 238hp stock value is correct, +45 rwhp would put you at about 290hp at the crank.

On a light car such as the 8, that would make you faster than the 350z's but just shy of the speed of the STI/EVO crowd.

thats pretty good imho.

neil

 

LOL dude you are smoking crack. Plain and simple. First off the 238 HP has to be within an industry standard 5 pct. My guess is the engine is putting out 226 HP, mazda wants to make the car look as good as possible. But just for kicks and giggles lets assume 238 is smack dab on. 238 HP is not to the wheels take the 238 * .85 and you get roughly 202. Its ok that most of us dyno around 175 to the wheels, I'll give you some slack on that. So take your 200 rwhp and add 45, you get 245 RWHP and still very little torque.

Now consider that SCC got 12.75 and 12.79 among other times for an average of 13.1 for the STI and an AVERAGE of 13.4 for the EVO. Consider that a 3rd gen Rx-7 which weighs 200 lbs less has 225 RWHP (255 to the flywheel) and 217 lbs tq and STILL is not as fast in STOCK form as an EVO or STI, you get the picture. And this doesn't even count exhaust and mods on the STI and evo.

45 or 55 RWHP from stage II sounds fun as hell to me, but your still not going to beat an EVO or STI unless the driver sucks.

 

Again this is a bang for the buck, How much does an STI cost and u can't even buy an evo where i'm at. I will also be being beaten by a STI or EVO because i will have three girls in my ride.

 

thanks Maurice.

 

i didnt say you could beat an STI or EVO with 45+rwhp. I said that you would be closer in performance. Obviously the STI/EVO is still faster and with mods its no contest.

However, with that extra power, you take the RX8 out of the class of IS300/Honda accord coupe/Audi TT performance and into the performance range of real sports cars. 0-60 of 5.4 seconds or less.

As far as the HP numbers, i have seen dynos on this forum of RX8s with 196hp. That is pretty close to the 202hp number with 15% driveline loss. However... lets take u're number of 225 crank hp. That is 192 rwhp + 45 = 237 rwhp stage 2. That is 278hp at the crank with stage 2. Arguably, the actual number would probably vary between 278 and 290.

In my opinion, the stock rx8 is slow. Its a blast to drive, but u cant argue with quarter mile and 0-60 times. But thats not the reason I bought it. However, with stage 2 it makes the car able to beat 95% of the cars out there. Still not able to beat the STI or EVO, but at least i wont hafta worry about RSX or accords or G35s... ect...

neil

 

LOL dude, Im not talking about that. Im talking about straight line speed. Ofcourse the 8 is the better car.

 

That equates to about 3 times the bang for the buck.....

 

Good point CZ jr. I am married so we won't talk about the girls. Any way my understanding of CZ's hp rating is that it is at the rear wheels not at the crank so I guess both of you need to lay off the crack and start thinking about this in different terms.

I don't think we've seen any dyno runs on the stage II yet so I will use my understanding of the stage I. It puts down 25 hp at the rear wheels, That gives us an average between 29-32 crank hp. (someone may need to check my math). Now lets use this same calculation for 45 rear wheel hp (please correct me if I'm wrong about the hp rating on Stage II) at that comes to 52-57 hp at the crank. So in actuality you are getting quite a hp gain. And I would think this is closer to the truth if you were going to "run the car closer to the edge."

 

just add the stage one Kit and you will easily be in the 0-60 range of 5.7-6.1 secs. With the extra 25hp, it will surprise alot of guys.
Remember, R&T got 5.9 secs with the old maps, and this kit gets us back up there and maybe then some, so it will run very nice.
That is plenty fast for me. But the 8 was not designed to run low 5secs. It still amazes me how many people on here still focus on the 0-60? The 8 is no slouch, but not the fastest. But with a simple mod, it becomes much more fun. I just picked mine up (finally) about 2hrs ago, and stopped at a detail shop to get a few things done. Had 2 guys come out and gawk over the car. Don't think that would happen in an EVO, and I still get very good performance to boot !
Once I get the stage 1 put in, I have a friend that has the G35C, and we will run both cars. I drove his, and it feels no faster in the top end than the 8? More torque down low, but thats all. I will bet that the 8 with the extra 25hp will pull a faster 0-60 time and 1/4 time than his Coupe.

 

These threads are getting as tiresome as the "Anti Detonation Device" on the other forum. Every answer leads to 5 new questions.

 

Well i guess to sum up this thread we should just say, Stage 1 Good.

 

Canzoomer Jr. is my son Graham, btw..

As for the question of EVOs and STi's versus an rx-8:
They are faster, and that is deu to an engine designed for turbo and boost.
Look at thepower "under the curve" however.
The peak power is across a much narrower range than the Renesis.
Add some decent tuning, and maybe an improved exhasut and you can give them a good run.
As for price, I hear that STi's can be picked up in the US for about $28K nowadays, so these are cheaper.
Considering the finish and the amenities, this does not surpise me. The RX-8 is a much nicer automobile.. And a hell of a lot more comfortable one to drive.

 

canzoomer when will your stage 2 be ready month, time frame please,second question i know i read you will need a high flow cat. will you supply this pruduct or is somone supplying this allready. iam waiting for the racing beat exaust to see what they have as hp numbers i know i read that stage 2 works well with two types of exhaust you have mention. our will it work the same with all of them???

 

I CAN TELL!! sheesh like father like son! to reiterate: when i saind thanks maurice i was not reponding to the post from graham i was thanking you for the explanation you gave in response to the question i asked about the cat situation. you guys are obviously related because he sent me a PM also stating that he was not you. :D :p i can see where he would not like to be confused with some old guy.:p

 

We have been jointly working with Random Technologies in Atlanta on the cat and midpipe matters.

I am pleased to announce that we will have stainless steel midpipes for sale, equipped with the Random high flow cat, by the end of this month.

We can arrange drop-shipment from Atlanta to points in the USA.
Or from our location here in Canada.

Options available:
2.5" (same as stock) or 3" diameter.
Bolt-in, with all flanges.
Comes with Random Tech cat, flanged in place.
Optional flanged pipe section to allow removal of the cat for racing uses.
Optional resonator muffler to help reduce noice. This is a flow-through unit, made by Magnaflow.
Optional mount plate for 3" to use with Borla or Greddy cat-back exhausts. While both use 3" tube, they narrow down to 2.5" flange to mate with stock exhaust. With this plate one may have the cat-back modified to mate with 3" mid-pipe. The part supplied is the flange, you would still need to cut off the original flange and have this one TIG welded in it's place. Most competent well-equipped exhaust/muffler shops can do this for you.

Pipe is equipped with the necessary bungs for installing the O2 sensors. This takes car of the problems caused by not using the sensors, and the resulting check engine lights that would occur running with no cat.

Prices:
CZ-MidP-1 CZ-MidP Exhaust mid-pipe, no cat, no resonator, stainless steel. Available in 2.5" or 3" $370.00

CZ-MidP-2 CZ-MidP Exhaust mid-pipe, c/w Random Tech High Flow cat, no resonator, stainless steel. Available in 2.5" or 3" $449.00

CZ-MidP-3 CZ-MidP Exhaust mid-pipe, c/w Magnaflow Resonator, stainless steel. Available in 2.5" or 3" $498.00

CZ-MidP-4 CZ-MidP Exhaust mid-pipe, c/w Random High Flow cat, Magnaflow Resonator, stainless steel. Available in 2.5" or 3" $625.00

CZ-adaptor flange-3" 3" exhaust flange, for adapting 2.5" inlet cat-back to 3" midpipe. Welding required on installation. $27.00

Package Deal of Stage2 AND midpipe:

CZ-Stage2/MIDP4 CZ-2 Stage2 Fuel/Air/Ignition controller kit, AND MIDPIPE MIDP4, with High Temp Cat, Resonator Muffler (off road use only) $1,225.00

When Stage2?
Looking to start shipping at the end of this month (March 1st)

 

would there be any harm or benefit to using say MidP-2 or MidP-4 with a cat back and a CZStage1?

 

Nope, you'd just have a Stage 1 RX-8 with a more freely flowing exhaust.

 

Maurice,

What are you going to charge for the Stage1 to Stage2 upgrade?

 

As I recall, it's $250-$300 or so.

 

We are going to charge the difference in cost.

$150 ( plus freight)

Stage 1 cost is now $600
Stage 2 is $750
Programming cable and software: $150

Yes, now you can tune your own map.
And still turn it off for emissions tests and comparison purposes.

 

Exactly.
You will also gain more performnce from your added cat-back, etc.

When you ONLY install a cat back, you gain quite little, as the limiting factor is the over-rich fuel/air maps on stock ECU settings.
Tests done with a wide open straightpipe produced only a 5HP gain.

With the Stage1 you gain more with a cat-back as it is tuned better for it.

With the mid-pipe you gain even more as the restriction of the stock cat is reduced with the Random Tech cat.

And if you opt for the 3" pipe version it is a bit more work, but improves it slightly more.

Performance differences between the 2.5" and 3" are very small.
On the other hand, if you choose to install a turbo or supercharger kit later, or if you have your engine ported, it will make quite a big difference.

 

Maurice
Have you sent your bag of tricks downunder ???

Are they addressed to phill or to me????

Looking forward to get the Australian stage1 / 2 tune done to suit our MAFS.
cheers
michael

 

Can you only tune your own maps with Stage II? Or does this work with stage I also?

 

Stage 2 only.

 

If I've followed this OK, any Stage 2 package is still "off road use only" no matter the combination of Cat, muffler & exhaust in the package. So those of us who are strictly "on road" should stop at Stage 1, perhaps with the lower RPM reflash, and an aftermarket Cat-back exhaust. Unless the next idea will be a Stage 1.5 kit .....