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RX8Club.com (https://www.rx8club.com/)
-   Series I Engine Tuning Forum (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-engine-tuning-forum-63/)
-   -   Coil Dwell Settings with ProTuner & AccessPort (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-engine-tuning-forum-63/coil-dwell-settings-protuner-accessport-178635/)

TeamRX8 09-16-2011 07:56 PM
Well there's no doubt that it does this in several areas, but so far my data is not suggesting this for the dwell :dunno:

MazdaManiac 09-16-2011 08:20 PM
How did you measure the actual dwell?

oltmann 09-16-2011 09:38 PM
3 Attachment(s)
It should be possible to figure out the correct scaling for this table. Most table references in Mazda roms actually define the "real world" scaling and offset.

For whatever reason, Cobb chose not to use them in all cases.

For example, here is a fuel table with Mazda's scaling:
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1316225701

Closed loop targets make more sense with the Mazda scaling, IMO:
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1316226414

Unfortunately, the dwell table is one of a few which use a different data structure with no scaling, but here it is with the same scaling as the fuel table. 0.00390625, which is used for about 40 tables, and also for Subaru dwell tables in 32bit ecus. (in ms.) Make any sense?

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1316225701

oltmann 09-17-2011 03:18 AM
Oh, duh. 0.00390625 = 1/256 = .5^8

oltmann 09-18-2011 02:29 AM
Looking at the code, all this table seems to be used for is to set a 16-bit down-counter for one-shot pulse generation, pretty straightforward compared to other subroutines.

rotarenvy 09-24-2011 08:07 PM
I thought there was 6.6ms of time between ignition events @ 9000 rpm?
if that last table is a delay then wouldn't the stock dwell be 5.12 ms?

oltmann 09-24-2011 09:10 PM
No, I think those are the actual dwell times. IOW, multiply your desired dwell in ms by 256 to get the value.

oltmann 05-10-2012 05:00 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Been meaning to bump this. I made a spreadsheet to convert the dwell values to/from milliseconds.

This is the stock table.

Code:
        1000        2000        3000        4000        5000        6000        7000        8000        9000
6.50        7.58        6.00        4.75        3.56        2.85        2.38        2.04        1.78        1.58
7.75        6.75        5.33        4.67        3.56        2.85        2.38        2.04        1.78        1.58
9        6.08        4.83        4.22        3.56        2.85        2.38        2.04        1.78        1.58
10.25        5.58        4.42        3.86        3.52        2.85        2.38        2.04        1.78        1.58
11.5        5.17        4.08        3.58        3.27        2.85        2.38        2.04        1.78        1.58
12.75        4.83        3.83        3.36        3.04        2.83        2.38        2.04        1.78        1.58
14        4.42        3.58        3.14        2.85        2.65        2.38        2.04        1.78        1.58
15.25        3.75        3.38        2.97        2.71        2.50        2.36        2.04        1.78        1.58
16.5        3.25        3.13        2.81        2.56        2.38        2.24        2.04        1.78        1.58
This is what I've been running for the past few months.

Code:
        1000        2000        3000        4000        5000        6000        7000        8000        9000
6.50        21.09        16.08        12.34        11.02        9.00        7.00        5.55        4.50        3.50
7.75        15.39        12.61        10.07        9.03        8.00        7.00        5.55        4.50        3.50
9        9.72        9.15        7.81        7.04        6.30        6.30        5.55        4.50        3.50
10.25        7.51        7.23        6.55        6.12        5.55        5.55        4.86        4.50        3.50
11.5        5.71        5.71        5.64        5.40        5.00        5.00        4.17        3.84        3.50
12.75        4.73        4.73        4.73        4.68        4.46        4.46        3.80        3.65        3.50
14        4.16        4.16        4.16        4.16        4.11        4.11        3.50        3.35        3.20
15.25        3.83        3.83        3.83        3.83        3.81        3.81        3.30        3.11        2.91
16.5        3.50        3.50        3.50        3.50        3.48        3.48        2.92        2.77        2.61

Brettus 05-10-2012 05:09 PM
nice bump there oltman .

Where were you a few yrs ago ? Could have saved a lot of heartache !!!!

Giustino 05-10-2012 05:24 PM
But now i'm confused???

So we don't just multiply the dwell table by 1.45?

Brettus 05-10-2012 05:36 PM
/\ Nope . Check out his spreadsheet - I'm going to try those d585 settings


Oltman - would you mind posting all the info you have on startup dwell . I still think startup is inferior with the 585s and wouldn't mind haveing another look at that .

Cheers

Giustino 05-11-2012 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Brettus (Post 4260823)
/\ Nope . Check out his spreadsheet - I'm going to try those d585 settings


Oltman - would you mind posting all the info you have on startup dwell . I still think startup is inferior with the 585s and wouldn't mind haveing another look at that .

Cheers
Are you runing yukons now? i thought you were on stock coils?

Brettus 05-11-2012 02:10 AM
Switched over a few months back - just because the oems had a lot of kms on them .

Have done a couple of logs since changing the settings this afternoon . Seems good so far.

ShellDude 05-11-2012 07:11 AM
Inferior startup? any thoughts on helping blow thru warm start issues? i have to clear the chambers from time to time with the gas peddle fuel cut trick.

Brettus 05-11-2012 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by ShellDude (Post 4261172)
Inferior startup? .
yes - have discussed this in another thread at some length . In discussions with oltman , it appears that startup dwell not taken from the dwell table above but is a separate parameter . And it would seem that the 585s should ideally have a lot more dwell at startup than the oems .

ShellDude 05-11-2012 02:50 PM
Looking at his table the difference is HUGE. I'll have to find this other thread.

Brettus 05-11-2012 03:02 PM
last page


https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...highlight=coil

ShellDude 05-11-2012 05:27 PM
heh... maybe I should post this in the dumb questions thread...

There's a separate table for startup and we can't get to it in ATR?

In Protuner, you're using an "extended" editor to edit it?

Sorry ahead of time if I'm totally off base. I'm intrigued as I run the original BHR coils and have characteristics similar to others -- but it seems this is a very common "trifecta" and couldn't have anything at all to do with the coils given the severity of any one of the qualifiers.

Brettus 05-11-2012 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by ShellDude (Post 4261752)
heh... maybe I should post this in the dumb questions thread...

There's a separate table for startup and we can't get to it in ATR?

In Protuner, you're using an "extended" editor to edit it?

Sorry ahead of time if I'm totally off base. I'm intrigued as I run the original BHR coils and have characteristics similar to others -- but it seems this is a very common "trifecta" and couldn't have anything at all to do with the coils given the severity of any one of the qualifiers.
Protuner has access to all the tables - which is the correct table to edit is not easy to figure out however .
As far as other factors causing warm start issues - sure . All i can say to your suggestion that the coils don't affect it is ...... try the oem coils back in there . You just might get a shock .

ShellDude 05-11-2012 06:55 PM
no I'm totally with you... not doubting the message at all... just frustrated that there's nothing I can do about it.

wcs 05-11-2012 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Brettus (Post 4261780)
Protuner has access to all the tables - which is the correct table to edit is not easy to figure out however .
As far as other factors causing warm start issues - sure . All i can say to your suggestion that the coils don't affect it is ...... try the oem coils back in there . You just might get a shock .
I've never had hard start issue with the BHR coils
:suspect:

Brettus 05-11-2012 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by wcs (Post 4261808)
I've never had hard start issue with the BHR coils
:suspect:
good

TeamRX8 05-11-2012 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by Brettus (Post 4260811)
nice bump there oltman .

Where were you a few yrs ago ? Could have saved a lot of heartache !!!!

I told you in this very thread last year ...

Brettus 05-11-2012 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by TeamRX8 (Post 4261842)
I told you in this very thread last year ...
Well - you said something that was vaguely headed in the right direction which was a slight improvement on what MM has been saying ..........
Oltman actually nailed it once and for all .

TeamRX8 05-11-2012 08:43 PM
No, MM just did his usual arguing about never being wrong and I didn't just hand it over publicly on a silver platter. You never bothered to contact me privately either.


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