StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

more dangerous to humans because it produces more CO

A cat will combine extra fuel and extra air to make CO˛ - using more energy and oxygen than a catless car.

.........and this is good how?

I think you should renew your GreenpeaceŽ membership, and catch up on what they claim is 'green' today.......

wcs

iTrader: (2)

Wrong, wrong wrong.
Removing the cat or gutting the cat is one of the only ways to gain any horsepower out of the RX8.
Tried it, dyno'd it and know it.
Don't believe me ... argue with this RX8club heavy weight then
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...69&postcount=4

MMmm I suppose this could be a "which comes first the chicken or the egg".

Uuuummmmmm ok ok ... ahhhh ... sure problems with the engine could cause the catalytic to fail ...but a failed catalytic will cause engine problems ... we can go in circles on this ...

If you read my post above, you'll notice that while the catalytic removed the visible smog effect we all see, but it did not remove the worst green house gas which we cannot see.

Sometime as well it's hard to see what the entire impact on producing a product might have to solve a single problem. It's just a matter of changing the environmental impact location and problem.

Honestly in the end the solution is to start walking and riding bikes more ... or the horse I guess. <shrug>

I guess that's the problem, it's so complicated.

LOL the environments honour is defiantly not well defended by tree hugging RX8 drivers.

lta_ds_fs7

iTrader: (2)

However, if you meant gutting the cat and selling the car...That's taking it to a whole other level...That was never mentioned once...Like I said before, this is simply a thread to help people with inspection issues.

Whether you like it or not, plenty of people run catless, and this is going to help them if they're stuck with the, "i can't get my inspection passed" problem.

FLYN8

You said, "it's not worth the risk [to the engine]", sorry, I used logic when I assumed the opposite of risk was no risk, or at least, less risk. Anyway, this is still off the topic.

The reason I took difference with your post was; you were promoting a way to get around state laws. I didn't want people reading this to think what you did to your catalytic converter, or what you suggest as a way to get around the law was okay or even beneficial. You shouldn't either. It opens people up to litigation and for no good reason - and you didn't tell them that.

wcs

iTrader: (2)

:D
Who would thought that such a little thread would have inspired such ....
Well ... good content/interesting reading.

Cheers ppl ... well met everyone

FLYN8

Simply put, because there is really no other point I want to make: You will have to replace the cat to legally sell your car. And in the future, I will be doing a cat check before buying any used car.

lta_ds_fs7

iTrader: (2)

I never suggested it was beneficial...i said it wasn't worth the risk in my opinion...and it's obviously illegal...I didn't realize I needed to specify something that should be common sense.

Either way, I'm still going to use this method every year, as will many others.

Cat or no cat, a car is still equally poisoness...If you don't believe me, park your car in a garage, close the garage door, start your car, and sit there.

P.S. - Since people apparently don't have common sense, I should probably add that this might kill you...and by "might"...I mean "will"...so don't actually do it.

xexok

I put my midpipe on at around 30k miles and my cat looked pretty good. I figure this way I do not have to worry about replacing the cat at any point because it will always be good when I need to put it back on.

I went out and bought a cheap harbor freight obdII scanner tonight and reset my p0420 code before I left their parking lot. It showed at that time I had 5 emissions systems that were ok, and 3 or 4 the were INC(incomplete I think) one of those was the catalyst system. I took a 7 mile trip home and checked it there and it had the cat listed as OK. I am going to see if I can get all the emissions systems at OK without getting a cel or not tomorrow.

AJRx892

iTrader: (2)

lmao only in america would you be told in a thread on a car forum that you need to let other members know something obviously illegal is illegal to avoid litigation......

WingleBeast

Actually you can sell your car catless as long as they are informed that it does not abide by state or federal laws. I bought a catless mazda rx7 from a dealer and he even had a special little Michigan state law form that showed what the car would and would not fail with regard to laws.

So don't worry about litigation as long as you properly inform the buyer with the proper paperwork.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

you might worry about passing by an on-ramp road-side emission monitoring test vehicle and having your picture taken though, followed by a summons in the mail requesting you to appear at an inspection station for further evaluation

xexok

Yea those are around depending what state you live in, I saw them in Colorado all the time. There are a few ways people use to get around those testers when they see them.

Today I went 11 miles so far and still no CEL. The obd2 reader shows 7 tests completed and OK with just one single test still listed as INC(oxygen sensor monitor) and 3 set as N/A. I think I might be able to pass as-is with just that one test not done but I am going to see if I can get that at OK as well before I go in tomorrow.

lta_ds_fs7

iTrader: (2)

You can only have 1 "N/A" for it to pass...The others aren't ready yet...drive a few more miles.

xexok

Well I figured you could only have one INC, as N/A means not applicable right? The ones listed as N/A are "Heated catalyst" "A/C refrig monitor" "EGR system". I know there is no external EGR system, https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/egr-valve-question-110914/ , that says there is some type of internal way it deals with it though?

The manual for this code reader states there are only two options, OK or INC. It doesn't even say its a possibility that some might read something else.

lta_ds_fs7

iTrader: (2)

That's why you speed up, then let off the gas and coast by it...lol

WingleBeast

I was more referencing legalities with selling the vehicle. obviously if you drive it is your own problem

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I have never seen a roadside emissions dohickey... But they should most likely spend the money on DUI checkpoints and leave my car alone...

ken-x8

Are you really that ignorant? Or just doing shtick to justify your antisocial activity?

Monoxide will kill you running a car in a closed garage, cat or no cat. But running without a cat dumps all kinds of additional noxious stuff into the air, where it will contribute to killing lots of people. Are you old enough to remember when the air in a lot of cities (LA in particular) was kind of yellow, and it was routine for people's eyes to burn just from walking around outside?

Ken

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I agree with you however I think that the point here is we are talking about a small collection of folks with burnt up cats. People who most likely do not have the $$$ to buy a new cat.

People whole will keep driving with no cat, skip an inspection and risk a hefty fine.

The best solution I can see is to run a high flow cat which won't pass inspection but at least pollutes less.

wcs

iTrader: (2)

The thing I was trying to get people to consider earlier was that ... "There is no free ride".
By using toxic Catalytic convertors (to produce) all you are doing to moving the environmental problem somewhere else.
Yes catalytic convertors clean monoxide from the exhaust fumes but what you can't see (from North America) is the environmental issues caused by its production.
You can't get something for free. Is the carbon foot print of making a catalytic convertor bigger than the one its trying to solve?
I don't know? It's interesting to consider.

Quoted from Wiki (FWIW) there is a major short coming in Three way catalytic convertor technology and that is the ability to reduce CO2.
"Although catalytic converters are effective at removing hydrocarbons and other harmful emissions, they do not reduce the emission of carbon dioxide (CO2) produced when fossil fuels are burnt.[22] Carbon dioxide produced from fossil fuels is one of the greenhouse gases indicated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to be a "most likely" cause of global warming.[23] Additionally, the U.S. EPA has stated catalytic converters are a significant and growing cause of global warming, because of their release of nitrous oxide (N2O), a greenhouse gas over three hundred times more potent than carbon dioxide.[24]"



So cleaning the CO (smog) was good but it is what we see .... so we think great all done.

What about what you can't see?

Check out CO2 emission from Google and the UN

http://www.google.ca/publicdata/expl...=co2+emissions

https://unstats.un.org/unsd/environm..._emissions.htm

I would love to find out how much fuel is spent creating a single catalytic convertor.

In the end ... the catalytic is a bandaid solution and not a very good one at that, as soon as it gets wet it falls off.
They work (for some green house gases), there is no denying that.
But to unequivocally say they are good for the environment?
No, I won't agree with this.
You need to consider the entire cost of such a product.
All we have done is move and shift the environmental impact.

There is no free ride, the solution is to stop burning fuel as inefficiently as we do or to not burn it at all.


--- edit ---
As I drive away in my gas guzzling turbo charged RX8, giving the finger to the environment!
But for those that do care, the catalytic is not your holy grail. If you really cared, you wouldn't drive.
The entire automobile is a environmental disaster to produce.

ken-x8

The OP didn't have his cat burn up. He said he gutted it.

But for people who don't have the money to replace a cat, that's probably not the only thing they can't afford, so this thread is of rather limited use. It would be more helpful to have a thread describing how to pull off armed robberies, so they could have money for all their needs.

Ken

wcs

iTrader: (2)

I think the he is actually a she Ken. I think.

ken-x8

Cherchez la femme! No wonder sweet-talking the inspection guys into becoming accomplices worked.

BTW - your point about cats being a trade is very good. When they were introduced CO2 was considered to be benign, and cats cleaned up some nasty stuff. They also replaced junk like air pumps that killed mileage and drivablility. But understanding keeps evolving.

Ken

lta_ds_fs7

iTrader: (2)

Actually no, I'm not ignorant at all...Just to answer your question.




Yes, I did gut my cat because I did not want it on my car...Like I've said plenty of times throughout this thread, I have my own reasons.






This is correct.



Sweet talking?...Ehhh...Not my style...Never has been...I'd rather look like a know it all bitch than pretend to look stupid just to get my way...I've never been great at being nice to anybody...Especially the opposite sex.

wcs

iTrader: (2)

Ahhhh crap.
Now I'm sad

lol