wings w/downforce
05-12-2004, 09:13 PM
#51
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holy **** . . only thing I gotta say is WHO DA HELL does that to a rx-8 . .. if you put a wing like that , take me for a ride . . . and fly me back to china . . . .
05-27-2004, 10:12 PM
#53
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Since you want opinions, here's mine. Just don't get pissed off about it.
I personally think that someone broke into the Boeing factory and stole that off of an airliner, but that's just me. What I'm trying to say is that in my opinion it looks like rice and I don't think it belongs on an RX-8. If you like it, it's your car and that is what matters.
The RX-8 has enough downforce to keep it sufficiently planted to the ground at the speeds the car is capable of. If someone is asking about a wing from a functional standpoint they had better already have dealt with the suspension so that the car sits as low as possible. That will make the biggest difference right off the bat. If you still need more downforce than this, you are either driving full time on a race track with nice turns (none of that 1/4 mile crap) or you are driving on the street and are a menace to society and are the reason why people die street racing. The car only NEEDS a wing for race track use. Any other uses are WANTS. It is irrelevant how much downforce it produces when you are going stoplight to stoplight and down city streets or through subdivisions. Unless you turn your local freeway into a race track you won't need it. If you do turn your freeways into race tracks, please quit so the cops don't associate me with you. You are the reason for stereotyping.
Anyone saying that painted calipers and other factory decorations are pointless had better not have a radio, a/c, carpet, interior, any exterior trim, etc and had better be using bare bones steel wheels. As I said earlier, if it isn't a NEED it is a WANT. You don't NEED carpet, interior trim, a/c, radio, "decorative" rims, etc. I know that painted calipers may look bad to some people (although I can't fathom why other than to not have any other leverage in an argument) but most agree that they look very nice. Are they needed? No. Is that wing needed? No. What's the difference? I do have to ask, if painted calipers are so bad and hold in heat so bad, why do Indy cars and Formula 1 cars have painted calipers? (They could be powder coated though) Porsches and Ferrari's come with them too and those cars are designed to go much faster and stop much harder than the RX-8.
I think the point is made. It's a personal preference. It's his car. He has the right to do it and like it. But, we have the right to laugh at him and dislike it. That's the beauty of having "rights". So quit bickering and arguing off topic. From now on, do you like it, yes or no?
No.
I personally think that someone broke into the Boeing factory and stole that off of an airliner, but that's just me. What I'm trying to say is that in my opinion it looks like rice and I don't think it belongs on an RX-8. If you like it, it's your car and that is what matters.
The RX-8 has enough downforce to keep it sufficiently planted to the ground at the speeds the car is capable of. If someone is asking about a wing from a functional standpoint they had better already have dealt with the suspension so that the car sits as low as possible. That will make the biggest difference right off the bat. If you still need more downforce than this, you are either driving full time on a race track with nice turns (none of that 1/4 mile crap) or you are driving on the street and are a menace to society and are the reason why people die street racing. The car only NEEDS a wing for race track use. Any other uses are WANTS. It is irrelevant how much downforce it produces when you are going stoplight to stoplight and down city streets or through subdivisions. Unless you turn your local freeway into a race track you won't need it. If you do turn your freeways into race tracks, please quit so the cops don't associate me with you. You are the reason for stereotyping.
Anyone saying that painted calipers and other factory decorations are pointless had better not have a radio, a/c, carpet, interior, any exterior trim, etc and had better be using bare bones steel wheels. As I said earlier, if it isn't a NEED it is a WANT. You don't NEED carpet, interior trim, a/c, radio, "decorative" rims, etc. I know that painted calipers may look bad to some people (although I can't fathom why other than to not have any other leverage in an argument) but most agree that they look very nice. Are they needed? No. Is that wing needed? No. What's the difference? I do have to ask, if painted calipers are so bad and hold in heat so bad, why do Indy cars and Formula 1 cars have painted calipers? (They could be powder coated though) Porsches and Ferrari's come with them too and those cars are designed to go much faster and stop much harder than the RX-8.
I think the point is made. It's a personal preference. It's his car. He has the right to do it and like it. But, we have the right to laugh at him and dislike it. That's the beauty of having "rights". So quit bickering and arguing off topic. From now on, do you like it, yes or no?
No.
05-28-2004, 07:18 PM
#56
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Originally posted by David_M
Your forgeting the lever action of the wing. The downforce a wing makes acts on the suspension. The further away from the suspension the less force on the wing you need to get the same amount of force acting on the suspension. Look at the wing on the Daytona Charger from the 60s'. The horizontal surface is nearly flat, set at a very low angle and about 6" deep with no endcap to contain air atop the wing. However that small surface is also about 8' away from the suspension. So the actual force on the wing is greatly increased by the time it reaches the wheels.
The Daytona wing is an excellent example of a low drag, high downforce wing ( if a little implractical for a street car ). Same reason for the height of the Supra wing, another small surface wing. The reason no one uses wings that high anymore is because of wing height restrictions imposed by racings various sanctioning bodies.
Your forgeting the lever action of the wing. The downforce a wing makes acts on the suspension. The further away from the suspension the less force on the wing you need to get the same amount of force acting on the suspension. Look at the wing on the Daytona Charger from the 60s'. The horizontal surface is nearly flat, set at a very low angle and about 6" deep with no endcap to contain air atop the wing. However that small surface is also about 8' away from the suspension. So the actual force on the wing is greatly increased by the time it reaches the wheels.
The Daytona wing is an excellent example of a low drag, high downforce wing ( if a little implractical for a street car ). Same reason for the height of the Supra wing, another small surface wing. The reason no one uses wings that high anymore is because of wing height restrictions imposed by racings various sanctioning bodies.
The better alternative is either a simple lip (like the euro lip our audi TT lip) that disrupts flow a bit to reduce lift or a gigantic but flat wing like on the STi/Evo thats made to straighten out the airflow behind the rear window to get rid of the low pressure turbulent zone that creates lift and drag. With a wing on a street car you want to get rid of high speed lift, not create an abundance of downforce and drag.
05-28-2004, 09:16 PM
#57
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Originally posted by pr0ber
Your forgetting the big winged daytona cars had the wings actually bolted to the car frames. If you expect to get any significant downforce out of a wing its going to need to be bolted to something more then just the thin aluminum trunk lid or have something like the MS wing where it distributes the load across the decklid.
The better alternative is either a simple lip (like the euro lip our audi TT lip) that disrupts flow a bit to reduce lift or a gigantic but flat wing like on the STi/Evo thats made to straighten out the airflow behind the rear window to get rid of the low pressure turbulent zone that creates lift and drag. With a wing on a street car you want to get rid of high speed lift, not create an abundance of downforce and drag.
Your forgetting the big winged daytona cars had the wings actually bolted to the car frames. If you expect to get any significant downforce out of a wing its going to need to be bolted to something more then just the thin aluminum trunk lid or have something like the MS wing where it distributes the load across the decklid.
The better alternative is either a simple lip (like the euro lip our audi TT lip) that disrupts flow a bit to reduce lift or a gigantic but flat wing like on the STi/Evo thats made to straighten out the airflow behind the rear window to get rid of the low pressure turbulent zone that creates lift and drag. With a wing on a street car you want to get rid of high speed lift, not create an abundance of downforce and drag.
If you had read my earlier posts you would see that I recommended several other options including a small trunk lid spoiler. The amount of downforce a wing or spoiler will provide is dependent upon the design of the wing or spoiler. Many wing designs will work on any car depending on what you want from them.
Your gigantic but flat wing on an RX-8 would be a bad, bad idea. The shallow sloping and tapering rear window doesn't leave a lot of turbulance at the decklid. A large, high, flat ( though airfoil shaped ) wing on the back of an RX would create drag with little downforce. The reason why this type of wing works on an EVO or STI is because of their high angle sedan backlights.
The idea that any wing is only good for racing at 100+ MPH is false. A low to medium drag, median downforce wing will begin adding useful downforce at rather low, perfecly legal speeds. By useful I mean that you will be able to hold a slightly tighter radius at, for example, 25 mph than before. If you don't see the point of being able to turn tighter at such a low speed, consider that in autocross winners are decided in hundreds or often thousands of a second.
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