RX8 Piggyback ECU
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SPAZZ13BPP (11-23-2019)
03-01-2004, 08:12 PM
#54
Registered User
ECU Programing
ECU Programing
Here's what the program looks like. It allows you to tune the cars A/F ratio and Timing in 500 RPM increments
Here's what the program looks like. It allows you to tune the cars A/F ratio and Timing in 500 RPM increments
Last edited by RX8on19s; 03-11-2004 at 09:46 PM.
03-01-2004, 08:52 PM
#56
Registered User
Where is the unit
Where is the unit? The unit is mounted in the rear to the windshield fluid housing. It fits perfect back there. You can even tell. All you can see are two black tie-raps.......
03-14-2004, 02:10 PM
#57
Registered User
Dyno Test
My RX-8 visited the dyno yesterday and the results were disturbing. For several months, I have read articles posted by fellow forum members stating that the “RX-8” runs way to RICH. Their theory is that if you lean out the A/F ratio, you will gain more HP.
Based on my experience yesterday on the dyno with an A/F reader, this theory is incorrect. We noticed that my RX-8 gained more HP & Torque by Richening the A/F ratio.
You will see in the graph below that peak power is obtained when the A/F ration is maintained in the 13.0 through 12.0 range. This A/F range is considered to be a really rich. As the A/F ratio is leaned out, the car losses HP & Torque.
Please note that the HP & Torque figures below only reflect A/F tuning. I did not have enough time yesterday to adjust the timing on the dyno. My timing right now is stock. I suspect that adding more timing at strategic points will added a bit more HP & Torque.
Rotary Extreme Intake, No Cat, Stock ECU:
191.3 HP & 135.7 Torque
Rotary Extreme Intake, No Cat, Ric Shaw ECU – with Lean A/F ratio:
189.0 HP & 133.5 Torque
Rotary Extreme Intake, No Cat, Ric Shaw ECU – With Rich A/F ratio:
193.5.0 HP & 140.5 Torque
Based on my experience yesterday on the dyno with an A/F reader, this theory is incorrect. We noticed that my RX-8 gained more HP & Torque by Richening the A/F ratio.
You will see in the graph below that peak power is obtained when the A/F ration is maintained in the 13.0 through 12.0 range. This A/F range is considered to be a really rich. As the A/F ratio is leaned out, the car losses HP & Torque.
Please note that the HP & Torque figures below only reflect A/F tuning. I did not have enough time yesterday to adjust the timing on the dyno. My timing right now is stock. I suspect that adding more timing at strategic points will added a bit more HP & Torque.
Rotary Extreme Intake, No Cat, Stock ECU:
191.3 HP & 135.7 Torque
Rotary Extreme Intake, No Cat, Ric Shaw ECU – with Lean A/F ratio:
189.0 HP & 133.5 Torque
Rotary Extreme Intake, No Cat, Ric Shaw ECU – With Rich A/F ratio:
193.5.0 HP & 140.5 Torque
Last edited by RX8on19s; 03-14-2004 at 03:30 PM.
03-14-2004, 02:45 PM
#58
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That's interesting. Your stock a/f ratios look way smoother than many others I've seen on here. We've seen some of them dip towards 10:1 which would verify the rich statement. Your dyno numbers also look higher than most. The rich statement may very well only apply to limp mode and not full power.
03-14-2004, 06:45 PM
#60
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It would be interesting to see you do some tests on the RE intake (on/off) to see if it is having an affect on the A/F ratio. That may explain why your observations vary from people who have done testing with the stock intake.
03-15-2004, 05:58 AM
#62
Registered User
amartin,
Just don't look at HP. You need to consider that it gained about 5 pounds of torque. This is great becuse RX-8 does not have much torque.
Also remember that the timing is stock write now. The HP should go up a bit more this weekend. Overall, the car feels alot better now with the ECU. Even the tone of the engine changed...
Just don't look at HP. You need to consider that it gained about 5 pounds of torque. This is great becuse RX-8 does not have much torque.
Also remember that the timing is stock write now. The HP should go up a bit more this weekend. Overall, the car feels alot better now with the ECU. Even the tone of the engine changed...
03-15-2004, 06:22 AM
#63
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guys . this is right ,take the intake off !!!
it seems the U.S cars run diff to our Australian cars and so all toy need to do is adjust the tune as you can with my ecu. the graph scale is hard to read and compare, i would change it to give a finner reading.
remember the real feeling of the car in a state of new tune v original tune.
the dyno will not show the responsiveness of the tune.
i hope to do an auto soon. it will work but the result will have to be seen when it is done.
it seems the U.S cars run diff to our Australian cars and so all toy need to do is adjust the tune as you can with my ecu. the graph scale is hard to read and compare, i would change it to give a finner reading.
remember the real feeling of the car in a state of new tune v original tune.
the dyno will not show the responsiveness of the tune.
i hope to do an auto soon. it will work but the result will have to be seen when it is done.
03-15-2004, 02:50 PM
#64
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The posted runs don't even represent actual tuning work. They were merely runs done with a richening and leaning across the board just to see what happens. These results are not indicitave of the potential of the engine after proper, thorough tuning. There is more to tuning than just adding or subtracting fuel. Timing has huge results on the rotary and a simple adjustment of the leading/trailing plug split can yield some fantastic results.
Give him a chance to get the thing dialed in properly and then look at the results. If an ecu is fully programmable for both fuel and ignition, doesn't it stand to believe that it has the potential to get a big gain such as canzoomer's? After all he is doing the same thing.
I personally start ecu tuning on an n/a rotary with a 10 degree fixed timing split across the board. Max advance set at 25 degrees. Then I add fuel until it loses power and then back it down slightly. This sets up a very nice smooth base map to work from. From there you can start playing with advancing the timing at different rpms. The most advance can be had at the torque peak. It needs to decrease a little after this point. You can also play with the timing split. Increasing the split makes the engine less likely to detonate. Decreasing the split makes it more likely. It doesn't mean that it will though and as long as the split stays at 10 degrees you can not get it to detonate. Maniac verified this with his e-manage. Whatever you do, make only 1 change at a time.
There is so much to play with that days can be spent on the fine tuning that gets that extra few horsepower. Brian Cain in Dallas played with the timing split on his turbo RX-7 a few years ago and learned alot. He's a guru now. Granted his car with its turbo is much more powerful but just a simple leading/trailing split adjustment gained him 20+ hp at the wheels. While a gain this large won't be possible on a naturally aspirated engine, it does give you a good idea of the potential of trying different things. Later on I hope someone plays with the opening rpms of all the different ports and the VDI system. We may be surprised here too.
Go tune that sucker and let us know how it turned out. Rick Shaw is a very reputable shop in Australia. I trust his products and hope one day I am fortunate enough to visit them if I ever make it to that side of the world. How about a drive in one of those race cars Rick?
Give him a chance to get the thing dialed in properly and then look at the results. If an ecu is fully programmable for both fuel and ignition, doesn't it stand to believe that it has the potential to get a big gain such as canzoomer's? After all he is doing the same thing.
I personally start ecu tuning on an n/a rotary with a 10 degree fixed timing split across the board. Max advance set at 25 degrees. Then I add fuel until it loses power and then back it down slightly. This sets up a very nice smooth base map to work from. From there you can start playing with advancing the timing at different rpms. The most advance can be had at the torque peak. It needs to decrease a little after this point. You can also play with the timing split. Increasing the split makes the engine less likely to detonate. Decreasing the split makes it more likely. It doesn't mean that it will though and as long as the split stays at 10 degrees you can not get it to detonate. Maniac verified this with his e-manage. Whatever you do, make only 1 change at a time.
There is so much to play with that days can be spent on the fine tuning that gets that extra few horsepower. Brian Cain in Dallas played with the timing split on his turbo RX-7 a few years ago and learned alot. He's a guru now. Granted his car with its turbo is much more powerful but just a simple leading/trailing split adjustment gained him 20+ hp at the wheels. While a gain this large won't be possible on a naturally aspirated engine, it does give you a good idea of the potential of trying different things. Later on I hope someone plays with the opening rpms of all the different ports and the VDI system. We may be surprised here too.
Go tune that sucker and let us know how it turned out. Rick Shaw is a very reputable shop in Australia. I trust his products and hope one day I am fortunate enough to visit them if I ever make it to that side of the world. How about a drive in one of those race cars Rick?
Last edited by rotarygod; 03-15-2004 at 02:53 PM.
03-22-2004, 02:50 PM
#65
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rotarygod, i agree with what you have said. the inlet can also be played with and this can be done with the Aux's in my ecu. one step at a time.
do come and say GDAY if you come down under. keep on racing.
do come and say GDAY if you come down under. keep on racing.
03-22-2004, 04:42 PM
#66
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I can vouch for the ECU system that Ric offers. I have recently had the piggy back ECU done along with the exhaust by Ric. I admit I was a sceptic, however the increase in the mid to high revs is fantastic. The car is a lot stronger and more responsive from 3000 and the hesitation from take off is gone. Even when driving in peak hour the take off is smoother.
05-24-2004, 07:05 AM
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guys. we will not quote power figures as the dyno does not tell the real story, we all know this so it would be wrong to misslead you. proof is in the pudding so listen to the results posted by the guys with the units fitted.
we only take a day to fit the ECU.
we only take a day to fit the ECU.
05-24-2004, 07:05 AM
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guys. we will not quote power figures as the dyno does not tell the real story, we all know this so it would be wrong to misslead you. proof is in the pudding so listen to the results posted by the guys with the units fitted.
we only take a day to fit the ECU.
we only take a day to fit the ECU.
05-24-2004, 12:51 PM
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the most i seen this unit put out was 2 hp i never heard of anyone else cliaming anything so which guys are you talking about. and by putting it on the dyno you get a sense as to what you picked up i agree its nothing perfect but a ball park figure.
05-24-2004, 12:58 PM
#72
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Originally posted by smrx8
the most i seen this unit put out was 2 hp i never heard of anyone else cliaming anything so which guys are you talking about. and by putting it on the dyno you get a sense as to what you picked up i agree its nothing perfect but a ball park figure.
the most i seen this unit put out was 2 hp i never heard of anyone else cliaming anything so which guys are you talking about. and by putting it on the dyno you get a sense as to what you picked up i agree its nothing perfect but a ball park figure.
