wakeech

as RG was sayin' is that it'd be better to have 4 separate ports, but i should think that experimentation with a big baffle and a 4 tube bolt on header could be feasible for the home tuner (and maybe actually work too).

true duals aren't a good idea 'cuase then you get no resonance benefit... i just shook my head and laughed at the guy in the 2nd gen forum that was adamant about having true duals. the two ports on the front rotor are really "one", and the two ports on the rear are another "one". just having a 4-1 header (obviously i'd prefere a rather short length design myself) would allow tuning for the front and rear... a 4-2-1 i don't think would offer much benefit for the necessary complexity (and size) that would be required to have one which works properly (with both primary runners from the front and rear rotors meeting, and both secondary runners meeting, to then collect it all even further down the line).

RG's idea of just tuning a proper 3 runner header (with the siamesed port getting the extra length, and a dead leg in there somewhere) is the best, short of modifying the block.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Some of you have brought up precisely what I was thinking; use the lead exhaust port from each rotor as a way to provide scavenging for the other port. In essence, a 4-2-1 header. When I earlier mentioned the housing having "no area with which a vacuum may be developed", I was only partially referring to overlap. What I mainly meant was that when the rotor completes it's rotation the exhaust gases are fully expelled from the chamber because there is no space resembling a combustion chamber as there would be in a piston engine. This is where I think RE-Amemiya made a mistake in designing their header like a piston engine application. I think there may be a bit of exhaust gas left over from one cycle to the next. I remember reading in a mag about a built-in EGR effect. Rotarygod's previous suggestion of a tuned "deadleg" pipe also comes close to what I have in mind. I'll keep y'all posted as to what I discover when I get my idea going. Thanks for the port timing figures, R.G. They will be most beneficial. Buy yourself an 8 and you get a free pipe, if you like.

Charles

wakeech

hey Chucky!! can i have those too??? :D

rotarygod

Wakeech: Just scroll up a few posts. I posted it here.

Charles: You're welcome!

Japan8

For those of you out there who are "JDM only" or are looking to jump early on the RE Amemiya header or Knight Sports... their expertise really is in working with FI rotary applications. N/A and the Renesis in-particular is a bit out of the (majority) experience that these guys have. Not to say that they can't work with the Renesis because of this, but these old dogs need to learn some new tricks and I'd expect that to take a little time. SO everyone should take their time in picking their parts. The 8 is just coming up to a year old now... stuff is only going to get better from here on.

As to variable valve exhaust... at least on the muffler end, Leg Motorsports has built one similar to what RG described about the Mercedes system. I'd like to see that combined with something at the header...

wakeech

well actually i was really looking to compare the new closure times to the old ones, as opening timing can be fuddled with so easily... i know people are bitching that the shorter beam height on the new seals make it really hard/impossible to bridge them and that the corners will just fall out if you street/extend the existing ports... but there's gotta be some way to introduce some overlap...

anyways, closure timing? know it?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

You all know that those of us in the fabrication biz need a few "volunteers" for our parts. I'll make that header and install it on my car first, since I actually OWN an RX-8, and then offer up two or three for free to get the market started. Of course Wakeech, you can get one of the first ones. If there is anybody on this board who will find fault with something and be outspoken about it, it would be you!! Haha.

Seriously though: I have also in production a number of titanium undercarriage parts for direct bolt-on replacement. Anyone out there interested in these, as well?

Charles

rotarygod

I don't get it. You have the closure timing. 3 degrees BTDC. You can't change the closure timing any on the exhaust or the opening timing any on the intake without the corners falling in. The only option is a bridgeport or going back to peripheral exhaust ports. Anyone doing something this drastic will probably be willing to modify the rotors for the older apex seals. The older peripheral stock exhaust port timing was:

Exhaust opens: 71 degrees BBDC
Exhaust closes: 48 degrees ATDC

You can have too much overlap and this was a big contributer to the fact that the previous engines made so much less power.

Charles: Giving Wakeech a header would be like giving me one to try out. Neither of us owns an RX-8. We could both see how good they look as decorative items!

wakeech

nono, intake closure. that's what i'm more interested in (i know this is an exhaust header thread, sorry to be inspecific).

and yeah Mr. Hill, my latest thread in the Discussion section was about how i finally drove one for the first time... i'm not even close to owning one.

rotarygod

I posted the intake timing figures here along time ago. When I get home I'll try to dig up the specs again and post them for you.

wakeech

don't go to any trouble man. if you've posted them already, i'll see if i can find them. thanks.

ranger4277

What sorts of undercarraige parts Charles?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

First off: Does ANYONE ELSE besides me actually OWN an 8, or do we just talk about these things while admiring our Auto Art scale models? Well, at least my freebies list just got two items shorter(HAHA!).

The parts I will be fabricating out of titanium are:
1)Power plant frame
2)Motor mounts and urethane bushings
3)Transmission cross-brace
4)Five-link rear suspension
5)Any other parts you might suggest

The way I see it, everyone else is making the intakes, cat-backs, and such. I might as well start shaving weight off the chassis.

I have no clue as to the cost, whether production or retail, so I cannot even speculate on that. I know I will make these for myself and if all goes well I may offer them to the public. My business partner also makes stuff for 55-57 Chevies. Hopefully, I have the same luck as Maurice.

My dealer has already agreed to "look the other way" on some potential warranty issues and take care of me, should I need it. They are just excited to see the outcome of my work and the improvements that my new flywheel, clutch, pulley set, swaybars, springs, stainless lines, exhaust, mid-pipe, fabricated header, and intake. Frankly, so am I.

Talk to ya soon,
Charles

JSE RX-8

any pics of the headers before and after the installation??

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

My fabricator, Brian, and I agreed to begin the process of building the header and PPF next week. Of course, I cannot provide photos(spy or otherwise) of the header. I can tell you that it will look nothing like what is out there, so far. It will be stainless steel with ceramic coating. (After these two parts, I will make a really cool version of the tranny member.) When the first one is built it will be installed on my car and then dynoed. Then I will make three more for field testing. Naturally, the test vehicles need to have a mid-pipe already installed for fear of destroying the cat. As far as A/F ratios, I prefer to risk my own engine before cutting loose the other three test units to the willing participants. Projects such as this are much akin to conducting an orchestra. As such, the progress is wholly dependent on cooperation of our material supplier, dyno shop, and sheer luck. Thanks for your interest and support.

Charles

takahashi

for your information Omi...

The header, ECU and dophin exhaust package is develop with the money from Option magazine - they have coverage of the super G8 project since (god know when - I think several month up the Jan 04 - Tokyo show)

They have the dophin exhaust and extractor combined with their ECU to gain 20ps. They are proud of it... billions of yens later they decided to turbocharge the car...

that is my 0.02$

Bottom line - they do research in a month more than anyone do for a year - coz they have cash -

What do you think why the Ferrari team is 4 sec quicker this year than last year? They do research with big cash and do it quick.

I should go with my friend to visit the RE Amemiya and do a full report

takahashi

That comes to a question I always wanted to ask the Americans... do you have a team of modification developers that work 9-5/6/52 a year to develop just rotary like the RE Amemiya?

I angry with the ignorance of dedication that the japanese have on cars.

Gord96BRG

Consider that Canzoomer has JUST his ECU to gain 25ps (Stage 1). One man, occasionally an assistant to help with the on-the-road tuning, and a few months of work after hours as a hobby/sideline. Without the Exhaust/header, just ECU alone, working on the side outside of his regular job, he gets better results than these guys who have huge cash and research facilities? Their efforts do not seem nearly so impressive.

Regards,
Gordon

rotarygod

The word "ouch" comes to mind right now! Good job Gordon.

takahashi

Well Have anyone EVER question of canzoomers' result?

Dyno is such a variable thing the Japanese bp gain may measure differently from Canzoomer's - just plain comparing numerals are - not right. Why not race them, I will say!

takahashi

It does not transform in Australian model for Canzoomer's mod...

I want a ECU mod but who should I trust?

rotarygod

Ric Shaw

Japan8

Look at all the other companies that exist... AutoExe, Pan Speed, FEED, Top Fuel Racing, Revolution, Knight Sports... and many more who offer a wide variety of rotary services including rebuilding and porting. RE Amemiya is a top tuner, but not the be all and end all...

Sure there are companies that work heavily on the rotary in the US... Racing Beat, to name one.... Petite Racing to name two. Don't ignore the passion and dedication of American car enthusiasts.

And lastly... stop ricing with a "YANKI-" mag like option and stick your head into JDM hardcore enthusiasts mags... RX-7 Magazine, RX-8 Magazine, RE Rotary Magazine and several more.

Japanese "YANKI-" are basically the same as ricers in the states... but worse maybe. They seem to be... part-timers... non-career, dyed hair, option mag car, maybe graduated high school, often part of a local gang. I think you all get the drift

Japan8

And I will say that you don't know much about cars and racing then. "Racing" them proves little about the equipment itself because at the end of the day in racing it comes down to the driver. That's why someone driving a Ford POS can win over a gen3 at autocross. Skill of the driver.

Measuring hp on a dyno isn't such a variable thing. Like all scientific things... control the variables and you have comparable results. Use the same make and model of dyno, if not... the exact same dyno. Take a large number of dyno runs as the car's perfomance will vary over time due to things like warming up, etc. So in the end, you take the average of your runs for each product and you will have nicely comparable results.

Have you even read the websites of the JDM companies' prodcuts?? The dyno numbers don't look too off to me. For example... Knight Sports' 4 Beat piggyback ECU...

takahashi

Well That comes to my point Japan 8 - why do you think the variable are the same in Japan and in US... at least the fuel they use is different... and the testing condition are different - so it is hard to compare result. So just don't compare the numerals alone. Any scientist in the world can say that - don't need to have an engineering degree.

That is why some one claims to have huge gain in a simple stuff - even Knight sports piggyback is questionable... then again Mazda was trying to comply with the emission in Japan - don't they sacrifice some power because of that - so is that mean that the huge power gain produce more emission???