New Guy looking for Advice for 09
 

OMG for starters you need to know that I'm joining the military, with that obviously comes new toys.

Being 20, top of the game in Mustang 5.0 (Foxbody) dom and F-Body (IROC-Z) dom, I've decided to change crowds for something new that's ganna kick my ass into learning what works all over again, which in my theary makes or breaks a car.

The model I'm chasing is a semi basic factory RX 09 Sport White Pearl (color has everything to do with my sale, if an R3 came with it I'd would fork over the moolah).

Three Deciding factors after IROC was cough "sold" (POS alert):icon_no2:

A) My beloved Oxford white 1989 :) Mustang GT is old, Turbo'ed and insain to drive in the rain.

B) If you don't think the RX-8 is the sexiest car alive you probably drive a Honda and in which case I don't give a damn about your slow opinions catching my drift scene.

C) Mazda is partially related to Ford (25 %+ Stock Buyout) so it's okay in the eyes of several family figures I meet:squint: often who would otherwise not allow me to park the car in the same block let alone drive by their houses (posted houses so no it's not okay).

Now plans wise, it'll be stock maybe a year if it's lucky. The Mustang as is thumps a whicked 731rwhp and 842ftlbs with a 76mm Hellion Turbo kit and some other bolt ons, so it's hardly the daily driver type, think of drifting on ice, then assume that's going to happen any amount of reduced traction you get from the rear despite:uhh: having 335 and 285 treads available to the rear (Slick\KDW's).

.
So my checklist, (please include brands, places to buy preferably online, your opinion on the item is also appreciated, IE "this is it, but I hate it wouldn't use it on mine" inuendo's are a no be frank I work to much...:)
1st Rims minimum 18X9in complies with stock bolt pattern and needs to be black also will it fit inside wheel wells?
2nd Turbo kit that can maintain 14-25psi? sounds sweet I like screamers!
3rd Bodykit or no? I love stock look, but if I could fit in a little wider front air dam for an intercooler and not rub every little pot hole crisis:banghead: into the bodyshop that'd be awesome.
4th Must compete with Evo8 and wife's ZO6:eyetwitch , evo cuz if it can take that I'm set.
5th Suspension upgrades that are a must and help?
6th Does the driveline in a RX hold up to the beating, where should I go if not?
7th How many ways can you say Zoom Zoom:lol2: to some Honda trying to keep up with you as you leave the dealership in your new ride? (it'd help cuz my friend just purchased a spankin new Civic Si and it's whimpyer than @$%#):icon_no2:

you are very misguided.
RX8 of any year does not = straight line car... 2008 Civic SI well driven will beat an RX8 in a straight line.

Z06? Evo8? .... your lookin at a corner cruncher not a dragger... your takin apples and oranges here man....

If your dead set on the 8 you need to remove (entirely) the drag racing mindset from your head and either watch some initial D or go to an Autocross meet.

Hmm...I don't think you're really wanting an 8, and if so you'd save a ton of money getting something different that has the power capabilities you're aspiring for.

There is nothing at this time you can do to this engine that will make that happen. We haven't broken 400whp reliably...yet.

If you're rich enough to buy a Z06 than you're rich enough to buy an RX-8 and than swap a nicely ported 20B engine in it for 30,000 dollars...with that you're looking at 400hp with a bit of extra boost and some porting. Go single turbo and you'll crack 600whp easily. Top 20B drag cars probably breach 1000 with a big ass turbo and some peripheral ports.

how misguided you are sir....

go get a straight line car, and put some kit on it with rx-8 styleing cues, cause it sounds like your here for the wrong reasons

in a drag race the car will not be a match. on a road course the car will not be a match for a prepared zo6 or a prepared evo. the rotary engine has a flame front of 270 degrees, zero overlap and a 10/1 compression ratio. Starting to get the picture?
No one i know off is running 14-20 lbs of boost in a daily driver. To much heat and compression for that. we are getting daily driver cars with approx 10.5 lbs /hp.
If you want a learning curve--then jump on--we would love to have you---but be forewarned--a lot of what you know engine wise does not apply to ours with just 3 moving parts!
Now the good thing is the 8 is so damn easy to drive. Too me the EVO and the Z06 drive like tanks. very fast tanks but tanks none the less.
if you dont road course then you are missing out of a 25 minute drag race:) Do it once and you will be addicted. I know--drove big blocks for a long time.
We have a one of a kind car .
Olddragger

:scratchhe

:uhh:

www.tirerack.com

There is no turbo kit that runs at those pressures. Besides, PSI isn't important, the amount of flow is.

There are lots of body kits available depending on your styling tastes. There is plenty of room for an intercooler with the amount of room there in stock trim.

Not going to happen short of an engine swap.

Coil overs + sways make a difference, although the stock suspension is nice. Tons of different opinions as to which are the best.

The only drive train related problem I've heard of is the transmission. Stock half axles, drive shaft, and differential can take quite a bit of power... the 09' transmission is supposedly more robust than previous years.

Unfortunately it would more likely be you trying to keep up with him in a straight line.


As others have said, the 8 doesn't sound like the car you're looking for. Since you will apparently only purchase a Ford affiliated car, the only option you really have is a Mustang. Oh wait, does Ford still own stock in KIA? :lol:

Oh, and I know you're "busy" and all, but don't assume the rest of us aren't as well. These questions have been answered hundreds of times before... at least do a little research before posting.

Well I was expecting to drop the compression ratio to 8-1 with a bridgeport, and I have several theoretical guys who think they can get around my seals which is the next part of the powertrain I'm concerned with. :eyetwitch

I know the RX-7 featured a better motor, but look at the Foxbody mustang, it doesn't have shit for balls compaired to any other Ford motor produced after it and any Classic Mustang's balls wouldn't be even a doubt. But drop in it's Dart Block, alloy this and that internals and you'll never find a happyer race car. I am simply edging in on that change. The Rotary being something which should handle with ease the power I'm aiming for, it just needs the durability to handle what she wants to do. :squint:

Rotors and the half shafts come up red on our computations next, we're hoping to pioneer some Drag ready RX-8's with a 1.6L variant of the Reni. Who is basicly a bunch of guys and couple gals with know how, machine shop resources, and alot of freetime who see potential to create a Modern Foxbody Fanfare replacement. :)

The first issue is the wheels, way to skinny to have any mettle. Two rodding out the motor which for a reni is about theoretical as soon as you finish bridgeport. Three we've decided the stock tranny and possibly the rear end might be better served with upgrades, it's pretty obvious it's not designed for more than 500hp, and it won't take me very long when I start actually working on things to get around that barrier and start cranking boost on race gas towards the 30psi RX-7's.

I mean Call me one of those guys who'd never swap his KA24 for a SR20 in his Nissan 240SX, but the RX-8 is an american import car, not a Japanese Muscle Car.

Anyone not infuriated by that just doesn't see how you can bypass traditional with innovative.

My Foxbody for example supply's both straight and sideways dominance, the issue is only with rain which anyone from a good part of the south knows Hell Opens up when it rains here.:icon_no2:

So what you're saying is you're going to design and machine new rotors and rotor housings, and develop an entirely new intake to take advantage of radically different ports? If you have that kind of time and money just drop a 20B in it and be done with it.

Get a 20B RX-7 and save yourself thousands & thousands of dollars.

I agree. Just drop a 20 B in it.
for a 1.6 job you will have to start from stratch. And you have little to no experience with rotories. Money doesnt buy knowledge.
for one thing you have plenty of intake capacity--its the exhaust that needs work.
My advice---call a friend of mine called Cam at Pettit racing. He has done and is doing 450hp turbo versions for the Diasio track cars. Not daily drivers. he is currently thinking about a needle bearing engine with 11k operating range.
A lot of your recip knowledge needs to get thrown out the window. I am sure for the right price and in between his building cars for the South America crowd he will be glad to be hired on as a consultate. Lets see if you are for real--I hope so, we need more determined people to push the envelope.
Olddragger

oh by the way the diff will be ok with upgraded axles--available through a vendor here. The trans--you are right about--contact Mazsport he has the type of trans you need.--its a 5 speed. Then sell me your 09 unit with the ppf and brace---seriously :)
olddragger

Well see I am apart of a Brotherhood, we call ourselves "KZR" which depending on which generation you'd jump in the brotherhood is "Kill Z-all Racing" or "Kalel's Zenith Racing". No internet nothing all private deal.

Ohh I decided a Veilside kit will be the ideal body upgrade. And no there are no intercooler's big enough to satisfy my demands, look how big my Mustang's is! (View it thru "Hellionpowersystems.com" -> Turbokits -> 89-93 Mustang -> Customer Gallary should be plenty to see, though mine is not in the photo's.

We where thinking we'd come up with an upgrade motor, one like a Dart Aluminum Small Block Ford, it's tougher, has a few performance minded features added, and is built with bore and stroking in mind for heavy use NA+FI. What we're seeing is more likely we should be able to render in a Domestic tranny like the T-56 which can and will handle 1,200 whp, it's just would it be practical to build a bellhousing and clutch swap kit to make that reliable\feesable to sell. Otherwise the rear end at that level is un-usable, so a domestic Ford nine Inch was brought to planning, but I was with about 10 other guys, "HOW THE HELL YOU BUILD THAT MUCH POWER ON A ROTARY, IE THE GOAL PEOPLE?!", which is the dilemma. Turbo's with the rotary look entirely feesable, though we think we can install a Autorotor Twin Screw capable of supporting 500-650HP we're not getting any hopes up due to all that design, rights of this and that to produce, and last of all the intercooling manifold (must be water intercooled). :cool:

So we're thinking a 76mm BB Turbonetics Stage III kit similair to the Hellion on my Fox could be done if the compression where dropped to 8-1 and exhaust was amped to about 3.5 in to 4in because the Reni has no lacking of support for the Turbo's spool, in fact we like to think the 76 could be considered to small considering lag factors as small as .023secs for spool on WOT to 8psi with a built set of injectors. :Drooling_

What's really killin me is how much we're going to have to fab to get the intake, exhaust, and reliability we see in much of our other projects. :smoker:

I mean think about a RX-8 which can run a 12sec burnout that scares a C6 ZR-1 (Corvette) with 335 DOT-Slicks out back, a rotary like the Reni has the potential, it's the relibility we're worried about. This is not like a New S197 Mustang, it doesn't have pistons we can swap, or a block we can reforge in Aluminum to compensate for heat and durability concerns, we need to see where it's breaking down, and forge ahead into a block which has the things we like to see. :lol2:

Low Side effect compenents
Quick Revs
High Boost+NOS tolerance
Larger than Average Injector Ports possibly twin porting
Twin Exhaust and intake ports

There are things we're seeing that theory we could revamp and shatter reality as it stands with the Reni. :banghead:

There is a joke we'll call it "King Rex" or "The Raptor F22", but our team doesn't quite know what liter we're going at, that's more a decent gas mileage setup, no one wants this if it's getting 2mpg ehh? :rant:

Nice that you have a name picked out for it.

So how you gonna lower the compression?

S

Refer to "Bridgeporting Process" and possibly even custom Rotors will have more a role with a redesign.

Also I'm disclaiming that my avatar photo is anything more than what I would like to model my car after, though I will likely banner, decal the sides, and possibly turbo entry the front bumper it is "Dream Car" nothing more, I would not like to come off poser. TIA

it dosent mean a thing that ford owns 27.3% stock the rx8 has nothing to do with ford its more linked to europ then ford but stay the hell away from the 08.5 09 rx8 yes they have a bit better sping and a slite longer chsy but it looks like a dam s2k and sky

^^:uhh: Bridgeporting doesn't affect the compression ratio. Bridgeporting is simply a process of drastically enlarging the ports, but leaving a small "bridge" in the middle of the port for the rotor's corner seals (without the bridge they could fall out).

ok--there is already a small twin screw system with a/w intercooler system that is offered by Pettit racing. i have one on my car. Oem computer flash available by him for the system.
You have a lot of work to do. problems such as temperature differences between the different materials used in the housing, rotors ,and side plates. exhaust port swelling with turbo systems that are going over 10lbs boost causing undue pressure on corner and side seals, limitations on exhaust porting due to the location of the water jackets, seal wobble and skip, rotor housing cracks,split spark problems and other little stuff.
Can it be done---sure. but forget about things such as quench, reversion or even stepped headers, coatings(mostly), moving the spark plug, big gains from a dry sump system, isolating intake runner(ours is over 20"!) etc
remember this is an engine that is trying to run backwards and forward at the same time.
Now dont forget the water meth system! DOnt forget the cooling
Be glad to share all I know.
My neck of the woods 700 hp Hondas are 5 miles away, 500hp Ls3 rx 7's are driven to work, the Masarati for the club Saturday evening drink and the GT 40 for cruise night. The Audi R8 was sold and Ferrari's dont even turn heads anymore. Guys are more interested in the trailer it came on!
Griggs stangs are interesting but heavy, Porsche are cockroaches. Mr White just wreck his 997 in turn 1 at Rd Atlanta. DOnt even get me started on the BMW's.
The ZO6 is a tank to drive and too much car for most people.
You want a 12 sec car? Just get it down to a 9lb/hp and you will have a 12 sec car.
olddragger

just get a 20B or 26B or better yet Turbo the 26B like so VVV
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/905688...n_dyno_awsome/

i dont doubt that you know a lot about cars. but i know a lil. bit about the military. and god i hope your wife has a bad ass job. you mentioned you have people that do machine work and what not. thats cool. but everyone has to eat. favors are cool. but having someone build you a dream engine for free is a long shot. im just saying i thing your head has more in it than your wallet will. i wouldnt rather any other car than a boosted 8 out runnin everyone, but i love my kid to much. well i guess theres that huge sign on bonus for the army. but have fun driving your car when your gone for 15 months at a time only to be home for 3 and do it again. best of luck.

what is crossfire for a thousand alex...

nice try..

beers :beer:

I know you know stuff about cars from reading your posts, but you, sir, are a rotary dumbass.

You CAN NOT lower compression without either completely changing the housings or casting new rotors- period. And before you think either is a simple task, NO ONE has done it before expect for Mazda and other car companies back in the early '70s that played around with rotaries until the oil crisis killed the could-woulda-shoulda 4-rotor Corvette.

The RX-8 isn't a dragster. It kills in the turns.

The power potential of this motor is still unknown, but if you're wanting 600-rwhp, the Renesis (as of now) isn't for you. You can swap in a 20B or an REW (from a 3rd gen RX-7 FD), but if it were me, I would just get the FD.

wat a retard, you cant take all your mustang knowledge and just dump 60k on a Renesis engine for no reason.
Just do a swap, or better yet stick with mustangs and Zo6s

Remember COED naked? Man those were huge back in the day. Everybody had one.

you picked the wrong car for your aspirations

better off to get a 1st gen Rx-7 from the early 80s, which are live axle and cheap, then make a dragster out of it.

Again there is enough people intrested in the parts, the team assembled expects 3 crate motors, the car, materials and all included we can spend roughly 120k.

As for the rotors, yes, but if you play off some really intresting side angle tricks you don't have to touch them to drop it a point.

Otherwise it is worth it to me.

sure.. good job.

beers :beer:

http://www.urbanracer.com/articles/a...sp?a=1239&z=16

Set that as your benchmark.

120K on a military salary? cant wait to hear your CO when you come to him with financial issues

:icon_bs:

This was amusing for a while, but it's time to stop feeding the trolls methinks.

Ravenforbidden, if you're not really a troll then maybe you should use a good chunk of that $120,000 to buy a clue before doing anything else.

guys....your doing the flaming thing again...


be critical but calm down on the "retards" and "dumb shits"

you've got a budget of $120k?!

Your not reading the "guys", "people" and such very well, it's not just me, I'm putting in the car, possibly the Turbo components. Other members of the brotherhood are intrested in the same type of Rotary as myself, we have currently 5 RX-7's that run 11's on Pump Gas, no one in the group feels the RX-7 is really as glamourous as it's newer cousin to "storm the gates of hell" with, so we're moving onto the newer untouched scene.

And I'm still getting money enough to run my stang thru Outlaw Class by next summer... Probably only going to do local classes though, military obligations are going to be a hitch...

ok,

beers :beer:

Well we got some spy work on the 20X motor and we're looking to go further, stealing from the newer motor when it's released we plan to take the fuel system from it and apply it to our 22F style motor. We'll be just barely able to make it worth streeting, it'd be low fuel economy, like a range of 12-19mpg, but boost and power will be on target.

Now to just get our hands on the new motors... Rotors with Carbon Fiber Apex Seals will overtake the heating issue, we've covered what needs to be done, it's trial and error for greatest reliability in the design we want now.

What's really intresting is you want me to swap in a different motor to make this work?

Well the 2V Mustang guys (96-04 GT's) will tell you just like I'm saying, pioneering something worth a damn with what it came with is better in everyway than a swap.

I don't think the Renesis we're putting together is going to hide very well, but it well take a fair amount of rotary knowledge to know the difference which is all that matters to the KZR team right now, popping a hood and getting a decent mark to line up is all we want the motor to acheive. A bigger stock motor is worth it's cost!

this thread fails.
best part "boosting 14-25psi" lmao. can we say booooomshakalaka?

And 20x, some angle tricks to lower the compression and the 13b rew is a better motor.
Glad to own a car that isn't for everybody.

The Renesis is not a failure of a motor, it's underdeveloped, and like anyone with any motor, it takes only alittle bit of effort to start fixing factory issues.

I don't really care if you think the RX-8 is a track only car, or drift too, I see the strip in it, and I'ma hunt down a 8sec RX-8 powered by a modified base powerplant, just like all the Muscle Cars, and some of the better JDM builds.

There is a limit to how fast a car goes, and when a 1.3L puts down the same power my Factory 5.0 HO came with in 89 with no bolt on's? Well I was intrested to say the least. Will it ever thump out the 347's 1,643hp? No I think not, but 600+ sounds feesable with reliability. Any car on the market that is huge in the aftermarket was not made with that craze, it was made into it!

who needs 1600hp? if i had enough money to reach just 600hp... i would spend them on the chassis anyway limiting the engine well below 400hp.
What muscle car owners don't understand is that it isn't about raw power, it is about handling.

And there are several Mustang's just like mine that use that 1600hp in full track courses often with DOT legal tires, look at NASA (the race association not space), the American IRON is a class specificly built for it. And I promise you'll never see my Mustang lose to something like an RX-8, I could completely fall off the track spin a couple doughnuts for kicks and get back on track and still win ahead over a minute elapsed. Muscle car's only need talented driver's to be brutal machines, having extra power is nothing more than an insurance the guy right beside you is not going to win.

1st: you jumped in the trap, troll.
2nd: fail.

man keep us up to date--even if the goal is not obtained--you can learn a lot on the way to it.
i remember when they said the engine would never run cool enough and now enduros are running at 140F.
if you have been around cars as long and to the degree you post then you probably have some idea of what is ahead of ya.
Carbon fiber seals---why? ceramics would be better lube.did i understand that you can play with the rotor angles enough to lose 1 point of compression?
Please explain how?
OD

whatever the case is keep us informed on how good your project comes out...with a 120k to spend on the project, you must be wanting to go somewhere...

good luck

Well right now it's a waiting game, the new direct injection system on the 20X will be mandantory to see the F-22 off the ground, otherwise it'd be a horrible option with under 8mpg. We'd like to have some decent mileage and lose mpg on a upper half of boost where we'll see racing action. If we're to use the new housing or not we havn't come to grounds with, our spy only had so much to give us.

Otherwise it'll be pretty sweet when the project comes to head.

We chose Carbon Fiber over ceramics for it's durability and flexibility, it's not certain at this point if ceramics would work well or not, it's worth looking into.

All I can say is I love the car, and I feel just like my brother felt when he got his first 2V 96 Mustang, a real gutless mustang... Potential high, initial low...

You need to study a bit more.
Trolling trolling trolling
trolling trolling trolling
trollhide!
http://members.shaw.ca/djcat/BluesBrothers.jpg

I don't know that I've seen so much misinformation in a single thread before. Bravo.

I was going enumerate all of the things mentioned here that are incorrect, or just don't make any sense whatsoever, but it would take way too long. A couple of things: I assume when you say "carbon fiber" apex seals, that what you mean to say is carbon apex seals. Even so, that has nothing to do with heat as mentioned. Also, you mentioned how you were opposed to doing an engine swap but apparently are happy to drop a 20X in when it comes out? And just to clear something up, no, you cannot use the rotor housings from the 20X with the rest of your parts from a renesis. :banghead:

.......... the new direct injection system on the 20X will be mandantory to see the F-22 off the ground, otherwise it'd be a horrible option with under 8mpg. We'd like to have some decent mileage and lose mpg on a upper half of boost where we'll see racing action.......... .

What has mileage got to do with a race car??
(....and you still haven't answered my question about lowering the compression ratio..........)

S

this should be interesting.....

I'm calling shens on everything....How bout some dyno sheets for the fox bod along side pictures of it and mod list. If not, gtfo troll.

O and obviously everything out of this tools mouth is bs. Why has this thread gone on for this long?

LMAO will do in bout five six months? If I'm lucky that'll be bout the time I get to my boxed up stuff, if not it'll be 9months with certain training, vacation, and transferring over of the goods what not, and I work alot of the day so finding a camera is out because I plain don't want to showoff the dyno right now.

But I will humour you when the mustang is refitted again, it's in pieces right now, the dyno would be kinda hard to do with the front end off of it, and I need to find a chassis dyno that'll handle the power, not alot of tuner's I've found will take the risk for when my bad little girl jumps to power, they're kinda hellashish, I've seen my car break straps off before while on dyno for the Turbo kit.