ravenforbidden

OMG for starters you need to know that I'm joining the military, with that obviously comes new toys.

Being 20, top of the game in Mustang 5.0 (Foxbody) dom and F-Body (IROC-Z) dom, I've decided to change crowds for something new that's ganna kick my *** into learning what works all over again, which in my theary makes or breaks a car.

The model I'm chasing is a semi basic factory RX 09 Sport White Pearl (color has everything to do with my sale, if an R3 came with it I'd would fork over the moolah).

Three Deciding factors after IROC was cough "sold" (POS alert)

A) My beloved Oxford white 1989 Mustang GT is old, Turbo'ed and insain to drive in the rain.

B) If you don't think the RX-8 is the sexiest car alive you probably drive a Honda and in which case I don't give a damn about your slow opinions catching my drift scene.

C) Mazda is partially related to Ford (25 %+ Stock Buyout) so it's okay in the eyes of several family figures I meet often who would otherwise not allow me to park the car in the same block let alone drive by their houses (posted houses so no it's not okay).

Now plans wise, it'll be stock maybe a year if it's lucky. The Mustang as is thumps a whicked 731rwhp and 842ftlbs with a 76mm Hellion Turbo kit and some other bolt ons, so it's hardly the daily driver type, think of drifting on ice, then assume that's going to happen any amount of reduced traction you get from the rear despite having 335 and 285 treads available to the rear (Slick\KDW's).

.
So my checklist, (please include brands, places to buy preferably online, your opinion on the item is also appreciated, IE "this is it, but I hate it wouldn't use it on mine" inuendo's are a no be frank I work to much...
1st Rims minimum 18X9in complies with stock bolt pattern and needs to be black also will it fit inside wheel wells?
2nd Turbo kit that can maintain 14-25psi? sounds sweet I like screamers!
3rd Bodykit or no? I love stock look, but if I could fit in a little wider front air dam for an intercooler and not rub every little pot hole crisis into the bodyshop that'd be awesome.
4th Must compete with Evo8 and wife's ZO6 , evo cuz if it can take that I'm set.
5th Suspension upgrades that are a must and help?
6th Does the driveline in a RX hold up to the beating, where should I go if not?
7th How many ways can you say Zoom Zoom to some Honda trying to keep up with you as you leave the dealership in your new ride? (it'd help cuz my friend just purchased a spankin new Civic Si and it's whimpyer than @$%#)

Saphus

you are very misguided.
RX8 of any year does not = straight line car... 2008 Civic SI well driven will beat an RX8 in a straight line.

Z06? Evo8? .... your lookin at a corner cruncher not a dragger... your takin apples and oranges here man....

If your dead set on the 8 you need to remove (entirely) the drag racing mindset from your head and either watch some initial D or go to an Autocross meet.

bdeitemeyer

Hmm...I don't think you're really wanting an 8, and if so you'd save a ton of money getting something different that has the power capabilities you're aspiring for.

Falken

There is nothing at this time you can do to this engine that will make that happen. We haven't broken 400whp reliably...yet.

If you're rich enough to buy a Z06 than you're rich enough to buy an RX-8 and than swap a nicely ported 20B engine in it for 30,000 dollars...with that you're looking at 400hp with a bit of extra boost and some porting. Go single turbo and you'll crack 600whp easily. Top 20B drag cars probably breach 1000 with a big *** turbo and some peripheral ports.

WingleBeast

how misguided you are sir....

go get a straight line car, and put some kit on it with rx-8 styleing cues, cause it sounds like your here for the wrong reasons

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

in a drag race the car will not be a match. on a road course the car will not be a match for a prepared zo6 or a prepared evo. the rotary engine has a flame front of 270 degrees, zero overlap and a 10/1 compression ratio. Starting to get the picture?
No one i know off is running 14-20 lbs of boost in a daily driver. To much heat and compression for that. we are getting daily driver cars with approx 10.5 lbs /hp.
If you want a learning curve--then jump on--we would love to have you---but be forewarned--a lot of what you know engine wise does not apply to ours with just 3 moving parts!
Now the good thing is the 8 is so damn easy to drive. Too me the EVO and the Z06 drive like tanks. very fast tanks but tanks none the less.
if you dont road course then you are missing out of a 25 minute drag race Do it once and you will be addicted. I know--drove big blocks for a long time.
We have a one of a kind car .
Olddragger

rotary.enthusiast

www.tirerack.com

There is no turbo kit that runs at those pressures. Besides, PSI isn't important, the amount of flow is.

There are lots of body kits available depending on your styling tastes. There is plenty of room for an intercooler with the amount of room there in stock trim.

Not going to happen short of an engine swap.

Coil overs + sways make a difference, although the stock suspension is nice. Tons of different opinions as to which are the best.

The only drive train related problem I've heard of is the transmission. Stock half axles, drive shaft, and differential can take quite a bit of power... the 09' transmission is supposedly more robust than previous years.

Unfortunately it would more likely be you trying to keep up with him in a straight line.


As others have said, the 8 doesn't sound like the car you're looking for. Since you will apparently only purchase a Ford affiliated car, the only option you really have is a Mustang. Oh wait, does Ford still own stock in KIA?

Oh, and I know you're "busy" and all, but don't assume the rest of us aren't as well. These questions have been answered hundreds of times before... at least do a little research before posting.

ravenforbidden

Well I was expecting to drop the compression ratio to 8-1 with a bridgeport, and I have several theoretical guys who think they can get around my seals which is the next part of the powertrain I'm concerned with.

I know the RX-7 featured a better motor, but look at the Foxbody mustang, it doesn't have **** for ***** compaired to any other Ford motor produced after it and any Classic Mustang's ***** wouldn't be even a doubt. But drop in it's Dart Block, alloy this and that internals and you'll never find a happyer race car. I am simply edging in on that change. The Rotary being something which should handle with ease the power I'm aiming for, it just needs the durability to handle what she wants to do.

Rotors and the half shafts come up red on our computations next, we're hoping to pioneer some Drag ready RX-8's with a 1.6L variant of the Reni. Who is basicly a bunch of guys and couple gals with know how, machine shop resources, and alot of freetime who see potential to create a Modern Foxbody Fanfare replacement.

The first issue is the wheels, way to skinny to have any mettle. Two rodding out the motor which for a reni is about theoretical as soon as you finish bridgeport. Three we've decided the stock tranny and possibly the rear end might be better served with upgrades, it's pretty obvious it's not designed for more than 500hp, and it won't take me very long when I start actually working on things to get around that barrier and start cranking boost on race gas towards the 30psi RX-7's.

I mean Call me one of those guys who'd never swap his KA24 for a SR20 in his Nissan 240SX, but the RX-8 is an american import car, not a Japanese Muscle Car.

Anyone not infuriated by that just doesn't see how you can bypass traditional with innovative.

My Foxbody for example supply's both straight and sideways dominance, the issue is only with rain which anyone from a good part of the south knows Hell Opens up when it rains here.

rotary.enthusiast

So what you're saying is you're going to design and machine new rotors and rotor housings, and develop an entirely new intake to take advantage of radically different ports? If you have that kind of time and money just drop a 20B in it and be done with it.

bdeitemeyer

Get a 20B RX-7 and save yourself thousands & thousands of dollars.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I agree. Just drop a 20 B in it.
for a 1.6 job you will have to start from stratch. And you have little to no experience with rotories. Money doesnt buy knowledge.
for one thing you have plenty of intake capacity--its the exhaust that needs work.
My advice---call a friend of mine called Cam at Pettit racing. He has done and is doing 450hp turbo versions for the Diasio track cars. Not daily drivers. he is currently thinking about a needle bearing engine with 11k operating range.
A lot of your recip knowledge needs to get thrown out the window. I am sure for the right price and in between his building cars for the South America crowd he will be glad to be hired on as a consultate. Lets see if you are for real--I hope so, we need more determined people to push the envelope.
Olddragger

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

oh by the way the diff will be ok with upgraded axles--available through a vendor here. The trans--you are right about--contact Mazsport he has the type of trans you need.--its a 5 speed. Then sell me your 09 unit with the ppf and brace---seriously
olddragger

ravenforbidden

Well see I am apart of a Brotherhood, we call ourselves "KZR" which depending on which generation you'd jump in the brotherhood is "Kill Z-all Racing" or "Kalel's Zenith Racing". No internet nothing all private deal.

Ohh I decided a Veilside kit will be the ideal body upgrade. And no there are no intercooler's big enough to satisfy my demands, look how big my Mustang's is! (View it thru "Hellionpowersystems.com" -> Turbokits -> 89-93 Mustang -> Customer Gallary should be plenty to see, though mine is not in the photo's.

We where thinking we'd come up with an upgrade motor, one like a Dart Aluminum Small Block Ford, it's tougher, has a few performance minded features added, and is built with bore and stroking in mind for heavy use NA+FI. What we're seeing is more likely we should be able to render in a Domestic tranny like the T-56 which can and will handle 1,200 whp, it's just would it be practical to build a bellhousing and clutch swap kit to make that reliable\feesable to sell. Otherwise the rear end at that level is un-usable, so a domestic Ford nine Inch was brought to planning, but I was with about 10 other guys, "HOW THE HELL YOU BUILD THAT MUCH POWER ON A ROTARY, IE THE GOAL PEOPLE?!", which is the dilemma. Turbo's with the rotary look entirely feesable, though we think we can install a Autorotor Twin Screw capable of supporting 500-650HP we're not getting any hopes up due to all that design, rights of this and that to produce, and last of all the intercooling manifold (must be water intercooled).

So we're thinking a 76mm BB Turbonetics Stage III kit similair to the Hellion on my Fox could be done if the compression where dropped to 8-1 and exhaust was amped to about 3.5 in to 4in because the Reni has no lacking of support for the Turbo's spool, in fact we like to think the 76 could be considered to small considering lag factors as small as .023secs for spool on WOT to 8psi with a built set of injectors.

What's really killin me is how much we're going to have to fab to get the intake, exhaust, and reliability we see in much of our other projects.

I mean think about a RX-8 which can run a 12sec burnout that scares a C6 ZR-1 (Corvette) with 335 DOT-Slicks out back, a rotary like the Reni has the potential, it's the relibility we're worried about. This is not like a New S197 Mustang, it doesn't have pistons we can swap, or a block we can reforge in Aluminum to compensate for heat and durability concerns, we need to see where it's breaking down, and forge ahead into a block which has the things we like to see.

Low Side effect compenents
Quick Revs
High Boost+NOS tolerance
Larger than Average Injector Ports possibly twin porting
Twin Exhaust and intake ports

There are things we're seeing that theory we could revamp and shatter reality as it stands with the Reni.

There is a joke we'll call it "King Rex" or "The Raptor F22", but our team doesn't quite know what liter we're going at, that's more a decent gas mileage setup, no one wants this if it's getting 2mpg ehh?

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Nice that you have a name picked out for it.

So how you gonna lower the compression?

S

ravenforbidden

Refer to "Bridgeporting Process" and possibly even custom Rotors will have more a role with a redesign.

Also I'm disclaiming that my avatar photo is anything more than what I would like to model my car after, though I will likely banner, decal the sides, and possibly turbo entry the front bumper it is "Dream Car" nothing more, I would not like to come off poser. TIA

zoom?

it dosent mean a thing that ford owns 27.3% stock the rx8 has nothing to do with ford its more linked to europ then ford but stay the hell away from the 08.5 09 rx8 yes they have a bit better sping and a slite longer chsy but it looks like a dam s2k and sky

rotary.enthusiast

^^ Bridgeporting doesn't affect the compression ratio. Bridgeporting is simply a process of drastically enlarging the ports, but leaving a small "bridge" in the middle of the port for the rotor's corner seals (without the bridge they could fall out).

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

ok--there is already a small twin screw system with a/w intercooler system that is offered by Pettit racing. i have one on my car. Oem computer flash available by him for the system.
You have a lot of work to do. problems such as temperature differences between the different materials used in the housing, rotors ,and side plates. exhaust port swelling with turbo systems that are going over 10lbs boost causing undue pressure on corner and side seals, limitations on exhaust porting due to the location of the water jackets, seal wobble and skip, rotor housing cracks,split spark problems and other little stuff.
Can it be done---sure. but forget about things such as quench, reversion or even stepped headers, coatings(mostly), moving the spark plug, big gains from a dry sump system, isolating intake runner(ours is over 20"!) etc
remember this is an engine that is trying to run backwards and forward at the same time.
Now dont forget the water meth system! DOnt forget the cooling
Be glad to share all I know.
My neck of the woods 700 hp Hondas are 5 miles away, 500hp Ls3 rx 7's are driven to work, the Masarati for the club Saturday evening drink and the GT 40 for cruise night. The Audi R8 was sold and Ferrari's dont even turn heads anymore. Guys are more interested in the trailer it came on!
Griggs stangs are interesting but heavy, Porsche are cockroaches. Mr White just wreck his 997 in turn 1 at Rd Atlanta. DOnt even get me started on the BMW's.
The ZO6 is a tank to drive and too much car for most people.
You want a 12 sec car? Just get it down to a 9lb/hp and you will have a 12 sec car.
olddragger

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

just get a 20B or 26B or better yet Turbo the 26B like so VVV
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/905688...n_dyno_awsome/

titesilver8

i dont doubt that you know a lot about cars. but i know a lil. bit about the military. and god i hope your wife has a bad *** job. you mentioned you have people that do machine work and what not. thats cool. but everyone has to eat. favors are cool. but having someone build you a dream engine for free is a long shot. im just saying i thing your head has more in it than your wallet will. i wouldnt rather any other car than a boosted 8 out runnin everyone, but i love my kid to much. well i guess theres that huge sign on bonus for the army. but have fun driving your car when your gone for 15 months at a time only to be home for 3 and do it again. best of luck.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

what is crossfire for a thousand alex...

nice try..

beers

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

I know you know stuff about cars from reading your posts, but you, sir, are a rotary dumbass.

You CAN NOT lower compression without either completely changing the housings or casting new rotors- period. And before you think either is a simple task, NO ONE has done it before expect for Mazda and other car companies back in the early '70s that played around with rotaries until the oil crisis killed the could-woulda-shoulda 4-rotor Corvette.

The RX-8 isn't a dragster. It kills in the turns.

The power potential of this motor is still unknown, but if you're wanting 600-rwhp, the Renesis (as of now) isn't for you. You can swap in a 20B or an REW (from a 3rd gen RX-7 FD), but if it were me, I would just get the FD.

LainO

wat a retard, you cant take all your mustang knowledge and just dump 60k on a Renesis engine for no reason.
Just do a swap, or better yet stick with mustangs and Zo6s

quazmosis

iTrader: (2)

Remember COED naked? Man those were huge back in the day. Everybody had one.

arghx7

you picked the wrong car for your aspirations

better off to get a 1st gen Rx-7 from the early 80s, which are live axle and cheap, then make a dragster out of it.