My MSD 8247 LS2 Muti-Spark Blaster Coils Project
04-10-2008, 10:25 AM
#127
The Professor
Dan, the conduit in any electrical system is supposed to be "invisible" to the components at either end. Making that principle apply in a cost-effective manner is the challenge for the engineers and what you are paying for as a consumer. Proper shielding is a separate matter.
Making the conduit invisible is as simple as using a 5mm solid wire, it will have insanely low resistance and carry a massive amount of current, but it will also generate a massive EMI field around it due to the laws of physics.
Thats how the spark companies get away with proper shielding by using the coil wrap method.
The MSD is a solid style wire (its a piece of rubber with iron impregnated in it as the center, essentially its a solid wire) with a protective cage of wrap shielded around it to prevent the EMI from the center conductor from jumping out. Thats how it (or any wire) will get a low resistance reading, by mimicing a solid wire. Which means that if that conductor wasn't created perfectly, shipped to you without kinking, then its going be a liability for EMI and possibly volt leakage into conductors around it.
The magnecor is just the sprial cage wrap surrounded by a huge shield.
04-10-2008, 10:35 AM
#128
The Professor
http://www.astro.uvic.ca/~tatum/elmag/em9.pdf
On pages 1-3 it talks about straight solid wires,
On page 4 it talks about sprial wound wires, and how the EMI field outside these is zero.
Which would mean that even if it wasn't created perfectly it would have nothing to really let escape since it wasn't used as shielding in the first place.
On pages 1-3 it talks about straight solid wires,
On page 4 it talks about sprial wound wires, and how the EMI field outside these is zero.
Which would mean that even if it wasn't created perfectly it would have nothing to really let escape since it wasn't used as shielding in the first place.
Last edited by staticlag; 04-10-2008 at 10:47 AM.
04-10-2008, 11:11 AM
#129
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This throws a kink in my plans. I was planning on using the 8.5mm magnecors that came with the pettit kit in conjunction with the MSD coils. Anyone care to elaborate on why these would work just fine, or not, or if different diameter/msd wires would be better/or not???
04-10-2008, 11:41 AM
#130
The Professor
This throws a kink in my plans. I was planning on using the 8.5mm magnecors that came with the pettit kit in conjunction with the MSD coils. Anyone care to elaborate on why these would work just fine, or not, or if different diameter/msd wires would be better/or not???
If you look carefully you can see the LS2 coils are different, they also have a socket, but inside that socket is a male stud like a spark-plug end.
So you can either
1) use needle-nose pliers to try and resize the male end of the magnecor wires
2) buy a custom set of wires (which I am trying to do) which will fit the RX8 and have the proper connectors.
3) buy an LS2 wire set and split the other 4 with someone else.
04-10-2008, 11:46 AM
#131
The Professor
I thought about buying everything and marketing a set for the LS2, I will have to see what prices I can get from their "custom application" division vs me doing the work and offering it myself. It may be cheaper to just talk up magnecor about making a custom part number for the LS2 coil application and letting people buy direct from them. I mean, its not like specing a tranny, clutch, axles or whatever where actual precise measurements go into it. Its just crimping a different connector on the end and cutting it to length.
Of course you have to buy in bulk, buy the correct crimp tool and die, buy the connectors in bulk, packaging and shipping, etc...
Last edited by staticlag; 04-10-2008 at 11:54 AM.
04-10-2008, 01:55 PM
#132
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The OEM coils are a female socket, so the spark plug wire has a male thing that you stick into the coil.
If you look carefully you can see the LS2 coils are different, they also have a socket, but inside that socket is a male stud like a spark-plug end.
So you can either
1) use needle-nose pliers to try and resize the male end of the magnecor wires
2) buy a custom set of wires (which I am trying to do) which will fit the RX8 and have the proper connectors.
3) buy an LS2 wire set and split the other 4 with someone else.
If you look carefully you can see the LS2 coils are different, they also have a socket, but inside that socket is a male stud like a spark-plug end.
So you can either
1) use needle-nose pliers to try and resize the male end of the magnecor wires
2) buy a custom set of wires (which I am trying to do) which will fit the RX8 and have the proper connectors.
3) buy an LS2 wire set and split the other 4 with someone else.
04-10-2008, 02:01 PM
#133
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http://www.astro.uvic.ca/~tatum/elmag/em9.pdf
On pages 1-3 it talks about straight solid wires,
On page 4 it talks about sprial wound wires, and how the EMI field outside these is zero.
Which would mean that even if it wasn't created perfectly it would have nothing to really let escape since it wasn't used as shielding in the first place.
On pages 1-3 it talks about straight solid wires,
On page 4 it talks about sprial wound wires, and how the EMI field outside these is zero.
Which would mean that even if it wasn't created perfectly it would have nothing to really let escape since it wasn't used as shielding in the first place.
However, before everyone starts to FREAKING OUT about detonation and MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires.
I have ran MSD Super Conductor wires on all my previous rotary cars to include a 1974 RX4, 1984 RX7 GSLSE and a 1988 RX7 GTU. All of them with street ported 13Bs and the two RX7s with Jacobs Electronics Rotary Master ignition boxes. Never ever a sign of detonation and over 250,000 combined miles on all of them.
My other current rotary car besides my RX8 is a 1972 R100 with a bridge ported 13B and using Racing Beat Carbon Race Apex Seals which according to RB “We do not believe these seals are appropriate for turbocharged applications because of their fragile nature if subject to detonation.” My R100 ignition consist of three MSD Blaster coils, two MSD 6A ignition boxes and MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor wires. No ECU, No knock sensor, No timing retard/advance box. Just pure Holley 650 CFM double pumper raw power. This is not a going to the grocery store type of car. With over 5k miles since my last rebuilt, three broken transmissions and two broken differential I have never ever experienced detonation with the MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires.
04-10-2008, 05:03 PM
#134
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Juan, besides the fact you have allways used MSD wires because they work (which is a damn good reason by the way), is there anything else you believe would make them better than magnecor for our application??
04-10-2008, 05:48 PM
#135
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I don’t think one is better than the other. Is just personal preference, never an issue with them and will like to stay with what I used for a long time. Come on, it is just spark plug wires or basically a new mousetrap design.
Can you imagine if we only had one choice? I’m sure everyone would be driving a Yugo or something similar to it.
04-10-2008, 06:25 PM
#136
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Agreed.
As you know it's a balance between the two(for the most part). Ideally you'd want really low resistance AND well shielded.
As you know it's a balance between the two(for the most part). Ideally you'd want really low resistance AND well shielded.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 04-10-2008 at 06:37 PM.
04-10-2008, 06:40 PM
#137
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Good insight Dan.
However, before everyone starts to FREAKING OUT about detonation and MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires.
I have ran MSD Super Conductor wires on all my previous rotary cars to include a 1974 RX4, 1984 RX7 GSLSE and a 1988 RX7 GTU. All of them with street ported 13Bs and the two RX7s with Jacobs Electronics Rotary Master ignition boxes. Never ever a sign of detonation and over 250,000 combined miles on all of them.
My other current rotary car besides my RX8 is a 1972 R100 with a bridge ported 13B and using Racing Beat Carbon Race Apex Seals which according to RB “We do not believe these seals are appropriate for turbocharged applications because of their fragile nature if subject to detonation.” My R100 ignition consist of three MSD Blaster coils, two MSD 6A ignition boxes and MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor wires. No ECU, No knock sensor, No timing retard/advance box. Just pure Holley 650 CFM double pumper raw power. This is not a going to the grocery store type of car. With over 5k miles since my last rebuilt, three broken transmissions and two broken differential I have never ever experienced detonation with the MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires.
However, before everyone starts to FREAKING OUT about detonation and MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires.
I have ran MSD Super Conductor wires on all my previous rotary cars to include a 1974 RX4, 1984 RX7 GSLSE and a 1988 RX7 GTU. All of them with street ported 13Bs and the two RX7s with Jacobs Electronics Rotary Master ignition boxes. Never ever a sign of detonation and over 250,000 combined miles on all of them.
My other current rotary car besides my RX8 is a 1972 R100 with a bridge ported 13B and using Racing Beat Carbon Race Apex Seals which according to RB “We do not believe these seals are appropriate for turbocharged applications because of their fragile nature if subject to detonation.” My R100 ignition consist of three MSD Blaster coils, two MSD 6A ignition boxes and MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor wires. No ECU, No knock sensor, No timing retard/advance box. Just pure Holley 650 CFM double pumper raw power. This is not a going to the grocery store type of car. With over 5k miles since my last rebuilt, three broken transmissions and two broken differential I have never ever experienced detonation with the MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires.
I would like to offer my services to be the one to break the next differential on the R100................so then you will have an even mix between trannys and diffs. Give me a holler sometime!
Last edited by Mazurfer; 04-10-2008 at 06:43 PM.
04-11-2008, 02:16 AM
#138
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Sounds pretty exciting to have better fuel economy and the better push above 6k. Anyone else that has done this mod have anything to say regarding fuel economy and what they have noticed with their butt dyno?
04-14-2008, 08:10 AM
#139
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Sunday trip to Gainesville, FL average speed 80 mph (ambient temp 60 and no A/C) 20 mpg.
Also, over 1000 miles on the MSDs to include two Autocross, 5 dyno pulls, and 128 mph highway run.
No problems, no issues, priceless.
04-18-2008, 01:37 PM
#143
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Grouch. I was originally going to split them with Nelsonrx8. I've had a full set at my house for 2 weeks now and he has not responded to my pms. If you, or anyone else wants 4, i'm letting them go for $250 + shipping.
04-21-2008, 08:52 PM
#148
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How much of the time was spent at 8-9K? On a short course a lot.
A short run would last anywhere between 25~45 seconds. Once you shift into 2nd gear, the rest is just switching from WOT to stomping on the brakes very hard. See attached a couple of logs at high RPM. A short run would last anywhere between 25~45 seconds. Once you shift into 2nd gear, the rest is just switching from WOT to stomping on the brakes very hard. See attached a couple of logs at high RPM.
04-21-2008, 09:08 PM
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