LS2/ D585 Coil Dwell - RX8Club.com



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Old 12-19-2012, 09:00 AM   #1
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LS2/ D585 Coil Dwell

I know this topic has been beaten to death. But I'm finding conflicting information.

I'm running the stock ecm on a Racing Beat street Reflash.

Do I need to absolutely change the coil dwell setting to run D585 coils? I understand that maintaining the maximum potential of them would require such, but is there an improvement over stock coils with no dwell changes?

I've read that the BHR harness eliminates this from being an issue. However I've seen BHR post saying it's not necessary to change the dwell time unless your flowing over 300 gms/sec.
I haven't logged my car since I had my engine replaced - but back then I was flowing 220gms/sec prior to engine replacement.
I don't plan on going FI.


And onto the flame. I'm making my own PnP harness, bracket, getting D585 coils, making my own plug wires as well. I'm totally competent to do such. (Been in the automotive business for 5 years, working on cars since I was 15 - not that it matters)

If someone is just going to step in here and say "it wont work". Elaborate. Tell me why it won't work, give me specifics. I've found a few threads of people making they're own kit, but no real follow up if it worked good for them or a lot of talk about coil dwell.
(Aside from Mark telling me about re-working the coil & help from olddragger)

Last edited by viprez586; 12-19-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:17 AM   #2
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made my own kit, works fine, can't adjust dwell settings because i have an S2, car hasn't blown up yet
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:37 AM   #3
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Did you notice any improvements? If so were you coming from having issues? Carbon'd plugs, weak coils?

On a side note I picked up GM pigtails and the connectors for ~$60. I also pulled like 10 feet of wire sheathing out of a used car that had computers in it for airport parking ticket enforcement. I even kept the wiring cause it looks VERY high quality WOOT! haha.
All said and done the harness should look legit as OEM. I even got a huge aluminum plate out of it and some aluminum brackets I could probably use to make my own coil bracket. I'm not a fan of how the long bolts bracket looks.

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Old 12-19-2012, 11:31 AM   #4
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Hey man, I think that if you're planning on doing this then go a head and go through with it. It's generally impossible for people on this forum to come to a consensus because of all our differing opinions, which often times makes decision making hard. But I'm sure you know that by now

Personally I think that if you were running 220 before you rebuilt, then you probably aren't running over 300 now. I don't know much about D585s but I would say not to mess with the coil dwell time at first, look for improvement, and if you aren't satisfied maybe mess with it then. Ultimately it all comes down to what you're comfortable with, because it's your car and your work. I don't see anything wrong with your solution, and I'm interested to see your followup on how it worked for you.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viprez586 View Post
Do I need to absolutely change the coil dwell setting to run D585 coils? I understand that maintaining the maximum potential of them would require such, but is there an improvement over stock coils with no dwell changes?

I've read that the BHR harness eliminates this from being an issue. However I've seen BHR post saying it's not necessary to change the dwell time unless your flowing over 300 gms/sec.
No. The principal unambiguous improvement of doing so however, will be greatly increased reliability and coil lifetime.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:11 PM   #6
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Hey man, I think that if you're planning on doing this then go a head and go through with it. It's generally impossible for people on this forum to come to a consensus because of all our differing opinions, which often times makes decision making hard. But I'm sure you know that by now

Personally I think that if you were running 220 before you rebuilt, then you probably aren't running over 300 now. I don't know much about D585s but I would say not to mess with the coil dwell time at first, look for improvement, and if you aren't satisfied maybe mess with it then. Ultimately it all comes down to what you're comfortable with, because it's your car and your work. I don't see anything wrong with your solution, and I'm interested to see your followup on how it worked for you.
Yeah I don't have a cobb, so I won't be messing with it anytime soon. Exactly my point though with only pulling 220. The car did/does feel much better though! It'll be interesting to see once spring comes around what I can log with my matco scanner.

I plan on updating this thread with continuing developments on the project. A lot of people seem very interested in this and I'll likely have additional parts/pieces left over for an additional harness.

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No. The principal unambiguous improvement of doing so however, will be greatly increased reliability and coil lifetime.
Agreed. That is another reason I wanted to go this route is to not have to worry about rolling up on 30k miles with OE coils and questioning their functionality. I'd rather have reliable coil performance/longevity accompanied by piece of mind that I'm not going to get random misfires; though I have been lucky last spring/summer with the car running great and maybe only getting one misfire event. I do plan on routinely checking/changing out plugs though too.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:31 PM   #7
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There is this option. The coils typically cost more, but you get much more spark with OE dwell. The wire sizing is not an issue at OE dwell either.

https://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-...-coils-221536/
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:56 PM   #8
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Good info minus the on going children's play and nit-picking.

I would explore that route, but I'm trying to be somewhat cost-effective since I'm looking at buying a house in the immediate future. That and I already forked over cash for the D585 coils.

On a side note - I completely agree that the OE wire sizing wouldn't be much of an issue in a stock or lightly modified application(like mine), but toss in there some corrosion to spike some high resistance and I wouldn't be so sure.
I peeked at the OE grounding location that has a connector on it and it is rather small. I plan on potentially using a good 10 gauge wire for grounds since that should be plenty to stand up to environmental conditions/ time and a bit of "breathing room" per say. Giving the GM wiring 10 gauge for it's own ground as redundancy will just put a nail in the coffin(I feel anyway)
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:16 AM   #9
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**Update**
So I found REALLY good pricing for building spark plug wires at Welcome to Race-Mart - Quality isn't an accident
Just called summit and they price-matched them no problem for $73 shipped. Not too shabby.
Prices may be found cheaper. I went with summit cause they ship from Ohio so I get stuff in 2 days, and have excellent customer service should there be an issue.

MSD -34039 (x2)
Taylor -46069 (x1)
Taylor -46061 (x1)
Taylor -43390 (x1)

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Old 12-20-2012, 10:22 AM   #10
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Ok that is an ***-ton of wire (unless you gave the wrong number, 34049 is their 100' spool of 8.5mm)

Dont forget to get your hands on some dielectric grease and more importantly wd40 or else you are going to have a shitfit trying to slide on the boots.

I have that same crimper, does a good job, but FWIW it will loose its alignment after a few uses (no biggie unless you plan on making like 20 sets of wires with that 200' of wire you ordered lol)
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:46 AM   #11
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you might want to rethink throwing the nitpicker card around like a rock in a neighborhood full of glass houses
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paimon.soror View Post
Ok that is an ***-ton of wire (unless you gave the wrong number, 34049 is their 100' spool of 8.5mm)

Dont forget to get your hands on some dielectric grease and more importantly wd40 or else you are going to have a shitfit trying to slide on the boots.

I have that same crimper, does a good job, but FWIW it will loose its alignment after a few uses (no biggie unless you plan on making like 20 sets of wires with that 200' of wire you ordered lol)
12 feet should be enough of wire (see summitracing). Yep I got access to all that at work.

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you might want to rethink throwing the nitpicker card around like a rock in a neighborhood full of glass houses
Mark, I think you took that comment as an insult towards you. However it was not. Instead it was rather directed at BHR & MM making childish remarks to be "politically correct".
I mean seriously guys. There is more important things in life. But I don't want to get off topic and start a pointless bicker back and forth.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:40 AM   #13
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12 is plenty, thats what i used. But the number you gave was for the 100 feet bulk pack lol.

MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Wire Rolls 34049 - SummitRacing.com

Pretty sure you meant 34039

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Old 12-20-2012, 12:04 PM   #14
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Whoops! Fixed!
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:42 PM   #15
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I have had experience with these coils on OEM dwell , MMs' recommendations and more lately the 'correct' dwell .
On stock dwell I believe they are under charged but still sufficient to provide similar spark to the stock coils while lasting a lifetime. Starting performance over stock (good) coils is diminished ,however most people wont notice this.
With the 'correct' dwell they are a significant improvement over the stock coil in all conditions.

Last edited by Brettus; 12-20-2012 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:02 PM   #16
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MMs' recommendations and more lately the 'correct' dwell .
I'm too lazy to research, but what are the dwell settings you speak of here?

I'd be interested for future reference of when I may potentially pickup a Cobb.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:37 PM   #17
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apparently you didn't realize I was only joking, guess I should have included the --->
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:38 PM   #18
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check the last few pages of this thread :


https://www.rx8club.com/engine-tunin...ssport-178635/


Read the whole thread for some good entertainment and history
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:41 PM   #19
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:48 PM   #20
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/\ search faster next time LOL
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:52 PM   #21
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except that I linked directly to my specific post 8 pages in
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viprez586 View Post
Yeah I don't have a cobb, so I won't be messing with it anytime soon. Exactly my point though with only pulling 220. The car did/does feel much better though! It'll be interesting to see once spring comes around what I can log with my matco scanner.

I plan on updating this thread with continuing developments on the project. A lot of people seem very interested in this and I'll likely have additional parts/pieces left over for an additional harness.
I think grabbing a cobb would be a worthwile investment, and feel free to sell me those leftovers!

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neighborhood full of glass houses
Confucius say, man who live in glass house... should change in basement.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:43 PM   #23
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dont forget to mention the msd 8247 coils that are also designed to work with less dwell.
Just saying..............(flame suit on)
They are more expensive.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:58 PM   #24
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They actually perform worse than the D585 with OE dwell, especially on startup
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:28 AM   #25
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findings on that?
Mine, to date, have perform flawlessly. Cold start, hot start etc etc--np's,my plugs look great.
I do run the oem dwell (for people that may not know)
The Ig Mercury coils (? proper name) were my second choice and only because I was not familiar with them at the time, but the msd's have been great not only for me but for another member as well.
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