HardHitter

Hey guys, I've been saving my money up to do a pretty big upgrade and I am debating between performance upgrade or exterior show upgrade and I think I'm going to decide to do a performance upgrade because all the mods that I have done so far has been for show and I have been hearing a lot of good things about little mods but big performance jumps.

First things first is that I've been hearing A LOT about the Racing Beat REVi intake and I have been looking and reading about it for a while now. For those who do have it, do you really believe it makes a big different and can you tell? Also, I am here in California and I remember that it says it wasn't emissions legal or something like that. Would that mean I wouldn't pass the tests or what?

Along with the intake, I will be getting exhuast. Now I was really set on the Greddy exhaust because it is the cheapest of the exhausts out there, however, I'm thinking that if I get the RB REVi, that the RB intake and their exhaust would be a good match. I'm looking to give the exhaust note a pretty low and loud growl at idel/full throttle. I've heard the Greddy in person and absolutly loved the way it sound, yet to hear the Racing Beat, but people say that it's quieter than the Greddy. If I did pickup the Greddy exhaust with the REVi intake, would I lose possible horsepower compared to if I did get the RB exhaust? (People say that the REVi + RB exhast = ~5hp increase)

Third is the midpipe. Now I don't really know much about mid pipes or if they will even help in increasing horse power at all. As you can tell, I'm not really a big guy on performance yet, so I am still learning about what everything does and their purpose which is what I'd like to understand about the midpipe. What is this midpipe? Does it help increase HP? Is it street legal? And I remember reading a thread saying that it gives off horrible fumes that you cannot stand and that it is ear piercing loud. Maybe if I got the RB exhaust and a midpipe, it would give the RB exhaust a little stronger roar?

One last thing, are all of these parts user friendly? For example I would be able to install myself. I know I can do the exhaust system since it's basically bolt on, but how hard would it be to install a midpipe and the intake? I've heard that the intake is hard to install.

Anyone is free to help me out and I'd really appreciate it. Thank you in advance!

Hellbreed

I'm not going to flame you for not searching as other will do this anyways, but given that most of your questions can be answered by links that are on the main page and wouldn't require a search to begin with you may be in for a good one.

HardHitter

Yeh I have done search and I just read the 13-15page thread about the Rotary Performance Midpipe. Seems like I'm going to be stuck with that as it was noticed to get around a 8-9.5hp gain.

The guy has clips with RB exhaust and it sounded good so I think with RB exhaust and REVi intake, I'll get around 14.5HP increase max.

Do you think I should get a different exhaust or go with the RB? Thought's would be welcomed for this.

Fanman

That's not the way it works. You don't progressively add hp numbers together to get the real figure. i.e. if a cat back exhaust adds 3hp & a midpipe adds 8 hp, that doesn't mean that together you will get 11 hp. Racing Beat did a full race exhaust (modified headers, straight thru midpipe & exhaust) & only got 10 hp. The RB air intake is clearly the best out there. It is not CARB approved, and wouldn't pass visual inspection (only if your mechanic knows what he is looking at), but in terms of putting out more emissions, it won't do that. Your expectations of about 5-7 hp is reasonable. I have the RB exhaust & I love it. I will caution you on one thing, if you decide to get a midpipe (essentially it is a long piece of metal piping that replaces the stock catalytic converter & resonator) your car will be much louder. When I put my SR Motorsports hi-flow cat (w/ resonator) on my car (which at the time had an RB exhaust) it made it substantially louder. You may want to get the midpipe before you swap out the cat back exhaust. All these parts are relitively easy to change out. Not exactly the best cost per hp, but you will get nice sound & some extra hp. Greddy, Borla, RB all make good exhausts, depends on how loud/throaty you want.

IZoomZoomI

You live in san jose, i wouldn't recommend you getting a midpipe, it requires removal of the cat and is a big no no in california. Plus it would make you ride a bit high pitch, which is opposite of what you want. If you're going for that route go for a hi flow cat instead, still legal plus ok gains. I been weighing each out myself appearance or performance... people do respect performance a lot more tho

HardHitter

ZoomZoom, can you give me a little more information on this Hi Flow Cat? The RP is known as a "Super cat-pipe" Is this what you are talking about because from what I've watched of Nemesis's videos, he has the "cat-pipe" paired with his RB exhaust and it sounds the way I want it, a throaty rumble at idle, and then loud when he gets on the throttle.

From what Nemesis has said about the midpipe, he's said that "I might be the only one with it installed so far, and my County does not require emissions testing. So, not sure if anyone else has tried, but RP said it passed, and they are waiting for C.A.R.B certification it seems."

Fanman, I see that you have a Motorsports Hi-Flow Cat which what ZoomZoom is talking about. Can you help me out with the differences between your Motorsports Hi-Flow and the Rotary Performance Super Cat-pipe. I see you're in California too, are you having any problems with smog or anything like that?

Thanks both ZoomZoom/Fanman and anyone else for helping me out.

04Renesis

a hi flow cat is basically the same thing as whats already on your car only it flows more air but not as much as a straight pipe, however, it keeps emissions down as well as noise (not as much as stock would tho)
---------<--->--------------{
^pipe ^CAT ^ pipe ^mufflers

a straight thru midpipe is just a pipe no cat which makes it illegal in CA
-------------------{
^ ALL PIPE ^mufflers

now technically you can't replace your cat on a new car until over 100k mile (dont know exact mileage but its a while) so if you take it to a muffler shop they won't replace your cat unless its damaged or not working properly. Hope this helps

HardHitter

So in theory, the Rotary Performance should be legal in CA because it is not a straight through pipe compared to the B&B correct? The B&B is a straight through midpipe and the RP is a cat-pipe?

Fanman

Technically, the hi-flow cat is illegal as you are not supposed to replace proper functioning equipment. Where the hi-flow cat comes into play is when the person who is doing your smog check doesn't know what a hi-flow cat looks like vs. stock (visual inspection) & runs the standard smog level check (sticks a sensor in the rear tailpipe), the hi-flow cat will pass, the midpipe will not. I have a hi-flow cat & a resonator on my unit as I wanted to keep noise level to a minimum & I though it made the sound still too loud. A midpipe replaces the catalytic converter & resonator. there are units that just replace the catalytic, but has a resonator in place (to reduce noise).
RP, SR Motorsports or Canzoomer (sell a Random Technology unit) are just different brands of hi-flow catalytic converters. All are pretty good. The quality of my SR Motorsports was top notch & reduced weight substantially. The stock catalytic & resonator is a beast. The unit that nemesis put on his car (from what I saw in the pictures) was a hi-flow cat unit, not a "midpipe."
04Renesis gives a pretty good description.

BIU

lol your go 04Renesis! The mans got some pictionary skills GOOD JOB! :D

HardHitter

Alright, so I should be able to run the Rotary Performance Hi-flow cat without any smog/emissions/carb problems?

If I want, I could just take it off whenever I do have to go in to get my smog/emissions right? And then how would I get cleared for CARB?

04Renesis

I am good aren't I? :p

By the way, anyone know if the midpipe has a different diameter pipe? Just curious as I might just be able to have a friend who works at a muffler shop Fab one up for me and sell me a High Flow cat at cost :D

Fanman

No, you're missing the point. With a hi-flow cat you would not need to take it off for your smof inspection. Unless the person you take it to knows the RX8 very well he will just think it is the regular OEM part & when he shoves a sensor in your exhaust it will pass emissions. With a midpipe, you would take it off during the smog check & put your OEM cat. back on so you will pass emissions. They stick a sensor in the back exhaust to test the level of carbon dioxide you are emitting. With a hi-flow cat it will be about the same as your stock cat. With the midpipe it would be off the chart.

CARB, stand for California Air Resource Board, you won't have any of these parts cleared by them. The process is too costly for these aftermarket vendors to pass these parts (and midpipes would never pass anyways). You just have to get your car passed by a 'smog check" vendor & show the DMV that you passed.

army_rx8

^ i've never had anyone do a visual inspection on any of my cars when i took them in for emissions testing.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

If you lived close by, I would let you check out my current setup. Racing Beat REVi Intake => Rotary Performance Super-CAT Midpipe => Racing Beat REV8 Catback Exhaust.

All 3" back from the manilfold = Solid Performance = Excellent Exhaust Note, Deep & Throaty Sounding.

Some would say this setup is too loud, but I don't mind it at all. Keep in mind that if you buy the RP SuperCAT, it does NOT have a resonator that the SR unit has.

I'm going to update my videos with some new ones hopefully by the end of the month. I'll be in Detroit next week, but when I get back, I'll make some runs and post them so that you can hear this setup before making any choices.

Fanman

Not sure where you live, but in Cali. they are SUPPOSED to do a visual inspection of the car during a smog emssions certification (smog check). Half the time these gas stations that are authorized to do smog checks are too stupid to even run the machine.

dmp

are we confusing the term "test-pipe" with "mid-pipe"??

Test-pipe = length of piping which eliminates the cat converter...

http://www.3sxperformance.com/images...3in-02-370.jpg

Mid-Pipe = any length of piping between the rear section of the exhaust (muffler) and the header/exhaust manifold.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

I keep forgetting about the CARB rules down there. It seems that Washington State is trying to adopt the same rules up here.

HardHitter

Thanks so much for all your help.

Nemesis I have learned so much from reading your thread on the RP Super-Cat Pipe. Basically, I am just worried about failing smog/emissions but since it seems as though there is no problems with that, I am likely going to purchase this soon.

Nemesis, you say there is no resonator with the RP Supercat, is that bad or what? Also, does it come with the O2 or anything like that when purchased from RP?

Renesis04 and I talked online last night and he was saying that I should get the Supercat before I get a catback in order to see if it is loud enough, if not, then go ahead and get a catback system, probably RB or Greddy. Do you guys agree?

Thanks again for everyones help.

Fanman

Usually just re-use the stock O2 sensor. the hi-flow cats have a hole where you insert the stock O2 sensor.

It really depends on what level of sound you are looking for. For me I was looking for minimum sound increase over RB cat back exhaust sound. i though it was perfect with just the Cat back. Even with the hi-flow cat & resonator (some call it a silencer) I thought the sound was a bit annoying (loud), but after I put the turbo in the sound is better now. I would recommend you get the hi-flow cat/test pipe first as well, then try it out. If the sound is still too quiet then go for the cat back.

One caution if you decide to go the catless route is that some people have gotten the check engine light on their cars as the O2 sensor senses that there is no cat & trips the light. You will get more hp from a straight thru pipe but you will also be putting out a lot of pollution & might get the light. FYI.

army_rx8

^ don't forget the overhwelming smell of fuel if you go the cat-less route.

HardHitter

Thanks fanman,

I think I'm going to keep the cat because #1, from what I've read about the B&B catless pipe, there are some people having problems with the CEL light coming on like you were saying plus it isn't legal so I don't really want to go that route.

Atleast with RP's SuperCat Pipe, I am getting the cat making it legal for smog/emissions which was a main concern, also has stated that it has around a 8-9hp increase along with adding to the loudness of the exhaust note which is what I'm also looking to increase.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

No, it's not bad. It just may be louder than you want. I personally don't think it is that loud, and in fact I like it

No, as Fanman has said, you re-use the second Lambda sensor. Be careful removing it so that you do not strip it's threads.