Omicron

You just don't get it, do you? Look at it one more time:

(Do burnout to get best 0-60 or 1/4 time) = (Car goes into limp mode)
(Limp mode) = (Drastically reduced power output of the engine)
(Drastically reduced power output of the engine) = (poorer 0-60 or 1/4 time)

(Hint: The reduced power output is key here)

"...reaching for anything..." ? I think not. Looks to me more like you are reaching for anything to slam the '8.
Be gone, troll.

zerohour

Hell i go over to the Z forums sometimes because im really interested in the car and try to learn more about mine by visiting the Z site.

There are so many Z owners on the board with very honest valid and constructive things to say. It just pains me and irritates me to see someone talk so much ignorant crap without even trying to understand the situation being discussed.

Nissans had their share of weird crap like the ECU that tunes down your car after adding mods very noticiably. You dont hear Mazda owners going and saying BS your car just sucks why do you even bother modding.....because it doesnt suck and you all figuired out how to fix it and i think thats awsome.

Cars have alot of weird crap that needs to be figuired out. I acutally appreciate your interest in our car it shows no matter what you might say we have piqued your interest so much that even though its such a useless topic to you its good to see your still interested enough to keep checking in.

rotarygod

The more parts of the car the ecu controls, the longer and more difficult it will be to study and then devise a modification for. We are still 2 weeks away from driving the RX-8 in the same model year that it is desingated as! It's twice as difficult when the manufacturer messed up in the first place in regards to the ecu. If the RX-8 weren't capable of any more performance from proper tuning then Canzoomer wouldn't be getting a tremendous gain in power right now. Wait until the ecu is tweaked even further. The engine still has more in it then even he is getting. Then we still have bolt ons. 2004 is going to be an exciting year for RX-8 performance and I guarantee that at this time next year there will be some people that will have to eat their words in regards to the potential that the little Renesis has. The Renesis is far and away superior to the older rotaries and we know how fast you can make them. Just wait until porting is figured out and forced induction is worked out. This car is going to turn alot of heads.

rotarygod

Here's a good comparison of how a truly good sports car is the sum of its parts and rather than a single strength. After reading this then consider what proper ecu tuning will do for us.

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/compa...9/page002.html

-=Zeqs=-

I agree...if you use a horsepower calculator and enter the quarter mile time, trap speed, and the weight of the car, it shows the "true' 238 horses. So I find it hard to believe that the WHP is really as low as everyone claims. So in light...I believe that the limp mode is affecting the chassis dyno results, but I doubt it'll help the actual quarter mile time that much more.

-=Zeqs=-

Umm...ok?

We weren't crying that the numbers are low. We are just saying that there might be a reason that they are low. There is a big difference.

-=Zeqs=-

So in a sence...you are saying that 350Z is like a closet-homosexual? but more like a closet-rx-8 lover?

Omicron

Great article and good points all around Rotarygod. But I gotta ask, who in the HELL from Edmunds performance tested the car? 0-60 in 6.6 seconds? No way. Even Consumer's Reports bested that time, and every one knows that they don't know how to drive performance cars. Sheesh.

RX-8 friend

Well, disconnecting the sensors is not the answer for sure. Our prototype "ABS fooler" module has a switch to select stock sensors or fake sensors. One part of the switch was open due to solder flux or oxide and that sure set a code in a hurry. Didn't even have to start the engine! Once we found that was the problem, it was too late to continue. Will try again tonight.

Kind of felt like "so many wires, so little time"

-=Zeqs=-

Good luck on your project Friend. Hopefully it'll help those that are seeking the full potentional of off the line power.

islandsoon

Good Morning Fellas...

This was in the Tech forum, posted by a dude from the Mazda 6 board. Looks like they have the same fuel rich condition on the dyno.

snip from tech post on scanners ----------------------------------

The 4000 has been used on the Mazda6, but its just a scanner, you can't change parameters. It works pretty well, but there are small bugs. For instance, the program won't yet show the 2nd O2 sensor on bank2.

Maybe if you guys and us start pounding AutoXray with requests, we can get something done!

Here are a few threads regarding this:
http://mazda6club.com/forums/read.php?TID=12682
http://mazda6club.com/forums/read.php?TID=12084

BTW, we're having the same problem as you guys on the dyno. Car seems to be going into a safe mode and dumping boatloads of fuel at higher RPMs.

end of snip.......................................

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Yeah - So I found out when I got to test my theory. Oh well - it was worth a try. I tried to find others reports on what they had done to work around it - but too many posts got in the way!

Would like to see some details how others have gotten on attempting this. Surely it is info we can all benefit from without having to be too much of a trade secret!

Cheers,
Hymee.

RX-8 friend

Canzoomer is serious about marketing a module for racing purposes, but I suppose he wouldn't shoot me if I told how we are doing so far.

The ABS is a Bosch unit. Those Germans are good! You can't fool the system with a resistor. The system can detect you are trying to fool it with a resistor only. Also when the vehicle is in motion the system looks for four AC signals of the same frequency plus or minus, not different for more than 3-4 sec. Soooo, we will be making a module that keeps the system happy, at somewhat higher expense than just resistors would have been.

At this time I see no way to make the installation of this easy (we had to cut four wires and tap four to pick off the signals we needed).

So I guess we or Mazda will not have to worry about "just anyone" doing this and killing themselves with no ABS on a whim.

Why does it work this way? Suppose you hit "something" that cut into the ABS sensor wire to one wheel. The system must fault if the cable is open, shorted, or even just resistive, even if the r value is the same as the sensor. It must sense this if moving or when you are starting the car (suppose overnight a squirrel knaws at the cable).

Very well done, Bosch!

SPD-FC

the mazdaspeed protege has the sam eproblem of running way to rich.

RX-8 friend

Quick fix! Want to dyno your car? Before pulling on the dyno, remove the bolt holding the ABS sensor in each rear hub. Back the car on the dyno. Crawl under there and carefully pull the sensor out of the hub and secure it to a non-moving part with tape. Do your dyno runs, then crawl back under there and re-insert the sensors, pull off the dyno, and reinstall the bolts.

Better fix for racers later.

ranger4277

Quick!! Somebody dyno your car!! Or.... RX-8 friend, what baseline numbers resulted after confirming this technique was successful?

Landon_Starr

Based upon the threads I have read, people have stated the 1/4 mile times won't be affected as much, it's a common agreed upon fact that a burnout is necessary to obtain the most efficient 1/4 mile run, and if a 1/4 mile time was obtained by not burning out, it wouldn't have the benefits off the line.

In essence, none of the 1/4 mile times have been optimal in comparison with other vehicles....? Since I would assume most vehicles will do a burnout, then run the 1/4 mile. The RX-8 if burned out, goes into "limp mode", run is skewed. No burnout, doesn't have the benefits, run time is skewed....? Am I accurate in my interpretation of this(and related) threads?

Omicron

That's MY read on it, which is why I am making such a big deal out of this.

rotarygod

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Damn you MAZDA!!!

EMeister

How much of a burnout are we talking about here? Because doing an actual burnout on street tires (not slicks) is worthless and does not increase traction. The people that do burnouts on street tires do it just for fun.

Omicron

Best launches have been achieved by reving the engine to between 7000 and 8000 RPMs, then dumping the clutch. This results in some serious wheelspin. I have no idea how much, as I haven't tried it yet, but it may be enough to trigger limp mode.

Genom

Only time I tried this I got MAD wheel hop and decided not to do it again until I learn some more

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

In my 20 timed runs I never got any "safe mode" lights on (ABS and the car with the wiggly lines symbol).

Some water burnouts, most not. Most runs up around 6k launch. Some wheelspin, but no axle tramp.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Omicron

Good info, and interesting, since with my car as soon as the rears slip the car the "wiggly lines symbol" lights up. But the insidious thing is that I'm not sure any warning lights indicate when the car has gone into limp mode.

What I think I'll do the next time the roads get icy here is to find a nice slick patch and spin my rear tires on it for up to 20 seconds if need be, and see how long it takes to get a light. Maybe I'll GTech it before and after.

RX-8 friend

Canzoomer found that here in winter he had to start at 3-4k RPM. Anything higher would cause the limp mode as it had too much wheel spin. This was with the stage 1 mod., however. Without you might do better at a higher RPM.

I think you'll find it trip at 3-4 sec. of spin, but check to see. Be interesting if it's different from car to car. We found there are levels of "ECU worry". Some show no lights yet reduce power. Some show lights that go off if you just drive around the block. Some show lights that require battery disconnect for hours to remove.

The joys of testing computerized cars

BTW, if you are dynoing the car you -DON'T- want to trip one of these conditions. It usually requires you to unstrap the car from the dyno and drive it around the block to reset. A very time consuming procedure!