Fastest N/A
01-28-2009, 05:12 PM
#51
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I think the NA world will grow with time. I agree some prices are too high but as the 8 becomes more popular (and cheaper, it kills me what you can get a low mileaqge one for and I stole mine) the price of parts will come down. It the same in the off road world, Jeep crap is uber cheap and land cruiser and range rover stuff is crazy expensive.
01-28-2009, 05:21 PM
#52
There are a couple of answers to this. For starters, the entire import car scene is being crushed by the economy right now. The car values are going down, and fewer people can afford to make expensive modifications so the vendors raise prices to compensate and keep their doors open. Add to this the fact that the RX-8 is a very "niche" car anyway, with much less market appeal than a car like the 350Z which has lots of bolt-on options because of the larger base of customers. So in the end you will always have less vendor options and have to pay more money to get quality parts for the car, even before the economic meltdown.
This does suck, but we are fortunate that there are a handful of solid vendors making genuinely good parts for the RX-8 as opposed to the "me too!" vendors who throw out crappy systems to get a few extra bucks from the RX-8 community. We have to treat the good vendors right because most of the time their R&D costs equal or exceed the profit they make from the parts to begin with.
This does suck, but we are fortunate that there are a handful of solid vendors making genuinely good parts for the RX-8 as opposed to the "me too!" vendors who throw out crappy systems to get a few extra bucks from the RX-8 community. We have to treat the good vendors right because most of the time their R&D costs equal or exceed the profit they make from the parts to begin with.
01-28-2009, 05:29 PM
#53
HAVOC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a daily driver looking to get more than 200HP per liter on a rotary is pure fantasy. Maybe possible with a port, intake, and exhaust specialy designed and tuned to produce power from the 9-10K RPM range. But all other RPM range will suck. Basically you will have a race car that you can never actually drive at less than redline. So keep dreaming on you 300hp "decent" gains.
I find that price on parts is directly related to either their brand name or RnD
so when you find small name companies charging higher prices it probably cause they took the time to make sure their product works.
I find that price on parts is directly related to either their brand name or RnD
so when you find small name companies charging higher prices it probably cause they took the time to make sure their product works.
01-28-2009, 06:45 PM
#54
Life begins @ 30 psi
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01-28-2009, 07:21 PM
#55
On a daily driver looking to get more than 200HP per liter on a rotary is pure fantasy. Maybe possible with a port, intake, and exhaust specialy designed and tuned to produce power from the 9-10K RPM range. But all other RPM range will suck. Basically you will have a race car that you can never actually drive at less than redline. So keep dreaming on you 300hp "decent" gains.
I find that price on parts is directly related to either their brand name or RnD
so when you find small name companies charging higher prices it probably cause they took the time to make sure their product works.
I find that price on parts is directly related to either their brand name or RnD
so when you find small name companies charging higher prices it probably cause they took the time to make sure their product works.
01-29-2009, 10:04 AM
#56
No defensive posture here but you clearly have some things to learn about the dynamics that effect the market. Rather than educate you I would prefer you try to do what BHR, Fluid, Works, Pettit, Mazmart, and others do every day and offer products at the prices YOU deem reasonable....... if you think you can.
I am not defensive, just an unabashed free-market Capitalist.
I am not defensive, just an unabashed free-market Capitalist.
I work round the clock and it shows, others so as well and you can tell it makes a difference. Sometimes it is just to break even and sustain the company for a better time to come and the economy to bounce back.
The majority of the prices are determined by the big name manufacturers, only the product we produce do we have control.
Even then it is 50/50 drawback because the parts, labor, R&D costs are so high.
Being able to buy in volume helps, but the trick is why most other car platforms cost less is because they are mass producing the items which drives costs down.
For example if I was to buy 500 mid pipes my costs are reduced significantly but, I won't sell that many...
If you haven't noticed lately a lot of major manufacturers are DISCONTINUING RX-8 Product lines.
Then even more aren't stocking them either with wait times of 3 months for something off the shelf..
These next few months there will be less and less products available for the RX-8 from the big manufacturers.
Working with Companies like BHR and myself strive to keep the aftermarket community alive.
I fight with my manufacturers to keep products alive.....I loose 9 times out of 10 unless I front 100% of the money to fund it and sustain it.....The numbers for me are just astronomical......
01-29-2009, 12:08 PM
#59
Boosted!!!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Puerto Rïco
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FI is expensive and companies like BHR and fluid do have GREAT prices. I have tried to see how much it woudl cost to buy parts separately and its almost the same as buying from them. A good FI kit will be expensive.
And pls dont compare a kit for a 95 accord with a kit for a 2004+ RX8, it will never be the same.
And pls dont compare a kit for a 95 accord with a kit for a 2004+ RX8, it will never be the same.
01-29-2009, 03:03 PM
#60
OMGITM!
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 3,513
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
I skimmed through this thread real quick but think its still important to remember:
Renesis is still a young motor! Streetable NA fc's have been hitting the 200rwhp mark in the past couple years and the S5 motor has been around since what, 1989? Give renesis time, porting will come and we'll see decent number in time, IMO. Charles R. Hill looks to be on the forefront, much like dave guitarjunkie was years ago...
Our car has only been around for 5 or so years and we've already seen a large jump in FI. Remember when greddy was the only option? Now look!
I'm excited to see what another 10 years does for the Renesis, with high hopes! I personally prefer NA rotary to any other combustion engine setup, as slow as it may be
edit: excited for 16X as the rest of us are as well...
Renesis is still a young motor! Streetable NA fc's have been hitting the 200rwhp mark in the past couple years and the S5 motor has been around since what, 1989? Give renesis time, porting will come and we'll see decent number in time, IMO. Charles R. Hill looks to be on the forefront, much like dave guitarjunkie was years ago...
Our car has only been around for 5 or so years and we've already seen a large jump in FI. Remember when greddy was the only option? Now look!
I'm excited to see what another 10 years does for the Renesis, with high hopes! I personally prefer NA rotary to any other combustion engine setup, as slow as it may be
edit: excited for 16X as the rest of us are as well...
Last edited by tiltmode43; 01-29-2009 at 05:50 PM.
01-29-2009, 03:08 PM
#61
OMGITM!
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 3,513
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
If I order a set of headers, will you help me install all of them? 
As far as the cost efficiency aspect of the argument - it would be most cost efficient to just flat out purchase a different car, or a bike as staticlag stated. This isn't about cost efficiency, its about making the most NA horsepower out of the rx8 possible.
Or FI if that floats your boat.
OP - Try a 5.125 final drive swap, tell us how it goes
As far as the cost efficiency aspect of the argument - it would be most cost efficient to just flat out purchase a different car, or a bike as staticlag stated. This isn't about cost efficiency, its about making the most NA horsepower out of the rx8 possible.
Or FI if that floats your boat.
OP - Try a 5.125 final drive swap, tell us how it goes
01-29-2009, 03:40 PM
#62
No defensive posture here but you clearly have some things to learn about the dynamics that effect the market. Rather than educate you I would prefer you try to do what BHR, Fluid, Works, Pettit, Mazmart, and others do every day and offer products at the prices YOU deem reasonable....... if you think you can.
I am not defensive, just an unabashed free-market Capitalist.
I am not defensive, just an unabashed free-market Capitalist.
01-29-2009, 09:18 PM
#63
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I skimmed through this thread real quick but think its still important to remember:
Renesis is still a young motor! Streetable NA fc's have been hitting the 200rwhp mark in the past couple years and the S5 motor has been around since what, 1989? Give renesis time, porting will come and we'll see decent number in time, IMO. Charles R. Hill looks to be on the forefront, much like dave guitarjunkie was years ago...
Our car has only been around for 5 or so years and we've already seen a large jump in FI. Remember when greddy was the only option? Now look!
I'm excited to see what another 10 years does for the Renesis, with high hopes! I personally prefer NA rotary to any other combustion engine setup, as slow as it may be
edit: excited for 16X as the rest of us are as well...
Renesis is still a young motor! Streetable NA fc's have been hitting the 200rwhp mark in the past couple years and the S5 motor has been around since what, 1989? Give renesis time, porting will come and we'll see decent number in time, IMO. Charles R. Hill looks to be on the forefront, much like dave guitarjunkie was years ago...
Our car has only been around for 5 or so years and we've already seen a large jump in FI. Remember when greddy was the only option? Now look!
I'm excited to see what another 10 years does for the Renesis, with high hopes! I personally prefer NA rotary to any other combustion engine setup, as slow as it may be
edit: excited for 16X as the rest of us are as well...
__________________
mazda rx8 aftermarket radiator
01-30-2009, 06:50 AM
#64
HAVOC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im telling you that at atmospheric pressure 91 octane only has so much energy in it and there is only so much room in the engine. For pistons the rule seems to be 100hp on the ground per liter. Find me one that makes more than that NA... you cant unless it has a high rev cam that cant even idle in addition to a tuned ITB manifold and racing exhaust. Im pretty sure the only car to really have pushed that limit is S2000 which gets around 220 as the cam out of a 2.0L or about 195 at the wheels.
Due to reasons described here -> http://www.rx7.com/techarticles_displacement.html my theory is that 2 rotor engines could get 200HP per liter on the wheels. And from what i have seen, heard, and done things have pretty much fallen in line with that number. So even with the best port, polish, intake, exhaust, coils and all other sorts of things, 260HP is probably the high end of your limit, and at that point you will not have a drivable car.
young or not... you cant create more power from gasoline
and thanks blackendwings, I would hope everyone realises I mean NA when i say there are limits to HP
Due to reasons described here -> http://www.rx7.com/techarticles_displacement.html my theory is that 2 rotor engines could get 200HP per liter on the wheels. And from what i have seen, heard, and done things have pretty much fallen in line with that number. So even with the best port, polish, intake, exhaust, coils and all other sorts of things, 260HP is probably the high end of your limit, and at that point you will not have a drivable car.
young or not... you cant create more power from gasoline
and thanks blackendwings, I would hope everyone realises I mean NA when i say there are limits to HP
01-30-2009, 10:33 AM
#69
Rotor User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally think light flywheel + light clutch is underrated at this massage board.
01-30-2009, 10:57 AM
#72
HAVOC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the heavier flywheel doesnt nessicerally "steal" power. It just stores it. you trade that power for inertia. so while it takes more power to speed up and therfore lose power to the wheels, it also takes more power to stop, therefore RPM's dont drop as quickly.
So before you rush out and buy a paper flywheel remember that it affects driveability.
'for those of you out there that dont know me saying paper flywheel is sarcasm, i know it will not work and isnt available'
So before you rush out and buy a paper flywheel remember that it affects driveability.
'for those of you out there that dont know me saying paper flywheel is sarcasm, i know it will not work and isnt available'
01-30-2009, 11:01 AM
#73
Vtak just kicked in yo!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lake County IL
Posts: 4,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess I still made out good. I need to go out now and do 600 8K clutch drops to toast my clutch
01-30-2009, 11:24 AM
#74
AP...followed by FI...
Or in NA trim...and intend on staying NA...Exhaust/Midpipe/Intake...in that order...
THEN
Flywheel...or if you have the option due to replacement or clutch job...
Or in NA trim...and intend on staying NA...Exhaust/Midpipe/Intake...in that order...
THEN
Flywheel...or if you have the option due to replacement or clutch job...
01-30-2009, 06:34 PM
#75
OMGITM!
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 3,513
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
Im telling you that at atmospheric pressure 91 octane only has so much energy in it and there is only so much room in the engine. For pistons the rule seems to be 100hp on the ground per liter. Find me one that makes more than that NA... you cant unless it has a high rev cam that cant even idle in addition to a tuned ITB manifold and racing exhaust. Im pretty sure the only car to really have pushed that limit is S2000 which gets around 220 as the cam out of a 2.0L or about 195 at the wheels.
Due to reasons described here -> http://www.rx7.com/techarticles_displacement.html my theory is that 2 rotor engines could get 200HP per liter on the wheels. And from what i have seen, heard, and done things have pretty much fallen in line with that number. So even with the best port, polish, intake, exhaust, coils and all other sorts of things, 260HP is probably the high end of your limit, and at that point you will not have a drivable car.
young or not... you cant create more power from gasoline
and thanks blackendwings, I would hope everyone realises I mean NA when i say there are limits to HP
Due to reasons described here -> http://www.rx7.com/techarticles_displacement.html my theory is that 2 rotor engines could get 200HP per liter on the wheels. And from what i have seen, heard, and done things have pretty much fallen in line with that number. So even with the best port, polish, intake, exhaust, coils and all other sorts of things, 260HP is probably the high end of your limit, and at that point you will not have a drivable car.
young or not... you cant create more power from gasoline
and thanks blackendwings, I would hope everyone realises I mean NA when i say there are limits to HP
Considering that many people still assert n/a is completely pointless, won't get you anything, and that factory cars seem to get ~180whp, 260 crank is a decent number, 220whp V. 180whp is a considerable difference IMO. Also, take into consideration we have stock port motors making ~220whp; sure calibrations differ but a couple have made that on mustangs.
Of course there are limits, all I am saying is I feel we haven't met them yet. Developments are still moving and tuning still has somewhere to go, especially w/re to porting. Not too long ago there were members swearing that renesis couldn't be tuned, mods did nothing for power, etc etc. Now we have people left and right claiming 220whp is relatively easily doable. I cannot believe the current aftermarket/tuning is as much as we will get, especially considering there are only a handful of renesis' that have been ported. Either we've still got a bit to go or I'm just naively optomistic (large possibility)