Dual e shaft position sensors ? - RX8Club.com



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Old 07-01-2015, 09:30 PM   #1  
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Dual e shaft position sensors ?

Has anyone fitted/mod the RX8 with dual e shaft position sensors? I'll design my own code to handle the 2nd sensor, but I'm just wondering if anyone has created the brackets or modded the case to handle 2? The 2nd one would be for backup failure purposes.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:11 AM   #2  
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I don't believe I've seen anything about that before. What is the scenario that you are looking at needing a second one? I've seen very few cases that even believe it might be a failure. I can't recall any failure's I've actually seen posted about.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:14 AM   #3  
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Why? The failure is quite rare...and when it stops working the spark and fuel are cut. The ECU is quite good at interpreting the sensor signal...and knows when it isn't correct
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:18 AM   #4  
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Who doesn't like using both hands? Dual shaft sensors? Get it? Meh, troll out....
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:35 AM   #5  
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nice Slash, I found it's for airplane pourposes. That should make it much easier since you don't have quite as much space constraints.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:25 AM   #6  
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Things like this are common on pro level race cars and airplanes for obvious reasons.

I don't think I've ever seen a dual sensor mount though.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:46 AM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
Things like this are common on pro level race cars and airplanes for obvious reasons.

I don't think I've ever seen a dual sensor mount though.
Correct. I did some searching and asking around on the aviation forums, thought I'd check on here too in-case someone had something. I know the chances are slim of failure of the actual sensor, but I'm not willing to take that chance. Dual redundancy is key. (Which is why I love the Rotary so much over the conventional pistons)
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:28 AM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonB View Post
...slim of failure of the actual sensor, but I'm not willing to take that chance. Dual redundancy is key. (Which is why I love the Rotary so much over the conventional pistons)
With this logic, you may as well have an extra air intake and an extra set of coils hooked up, just in case
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:44 AM   #9  
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Extra coils is common on aircraft,
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:50 AM   #10  
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We need a "WTF" forum
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:07 PM   #11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logalinipoo View Post
Extra coils is common on aircraft,
Is this for an air craft or renesis?
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:10 PM   #12  
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We had the crank position sensor fail mid-race at a Chump Car event. This was on a Neon. The car wouldn't rev over 4000.

We lost positions, but we pitted and replaced it. Kinda hard to do that with an aircraft, which is what this gentleman is building. So when someone says:

"when it stops working the spark and fuel are cut. The ECU is quite good at interpreting the sensor signal...and knows when it isn't correct"

That's not good news at 15,000ft :\


To the OP: I'm not sure I can help with solving the problem, but one related thought: I tinker with drones and one issue we have is with dual sensors (say compasses/accelerometers) the program gets confused when the sensors disagree, as it doesn't know which one is correct. In our case we end up running 3 of the same sensor. So I imagine you'd need to run the second one as standby and have an emergency switchover procedure if the primary fails, rather than take input from both simultaneously. I could be stating the obvious, but just a thought.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:21 PM   #13  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX8Soldier View Post
Is this for an air craft or renesis?

It's for a renesis, that is going to be placed in an aircraft.

And if you note he said nothing about aircraft before dan made that note.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:29 PM   #14  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logalinipoo View Post
It's for a renesis, that is going to be placed in an aircraft.

And if you note he said nothing about aircraft before dan made that note.
Ah ok. Carry on then
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:24 PM   #15  
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It would just be a straight fail-over. Not using both sensors at the same time. Ofcourse with the eshaft sensor, it will have to be programmed differently as it will be reading at a different clock position. The flight avionics uses 3 of everything for sensors.

Thanks guys, looks like I'll come up with my own bracket down the road.

ps. We do have an extra air intake in aviation. One is filtered and one is ram air once we get nice and high. The rotary already has backup injectors & coils, which is why we love them. We can limp to the closet airport on 1 rotor, or the primary, or the secondary, etc... The redundancy it already built it compared to any other automotive engine.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:22 PM   #16  
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If you're going with a P Port than you are going to have to have a custom air intake, and install there injectors there aren't you?

Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.

If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:39 AM   #17  
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For p-port it doesnt make much sense to even start with a Renesis engine to begin with, that's an added reliability issue in itself considering you can buy all the parts off the shelf for a full aluminum 13B p-port

Building your own ECU too, seems like you're hell bent on risk taking far beyond trying to double up on one of the most reliable parts on a Renesis engine
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Old 07-03-2015, 05:49 PM   #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logalinipoo View Post
If you're going with a P Port than you are going to have to have a custom air intake, and install there injectors there aren't you?

Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.

If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
For p-port it doesnt make much sense to even start with a Renesis engine to begin with, that's an added reliability issue in itself considering you can buy all the parts off the shelf for a full aluminum 13B p-port

Building your own ECU too, seems like you're hell bent on risk taking far beyond trying to double up on one of the most reliable parts on a Renesis engine



Where the hell are you two getting this from? Is there like another thread or something? OP has not mentioned anything about doing a peripheral port.
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Old 07-03-2015, 11:09 PM   #19  
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Yes there is another thread. about making a custom ECU.
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Old 07-04-2015, 06:45 PM   #20  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logalinipoo View Post
If you're going with a P Port than you are going to have to have a custom air intake, and install there injectors there aren't you?

Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.

If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
Yes custom slide throttle and the injectors will go in the intake runners. Picture attached is not my engine, same design though. OMP is plugged and pre-mix is the only way to go.


Ok so to answer this thread, there is no bracket. Thanks everyone.
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Old 07-05-2015, 12:37 PM   #21  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
Where the hell are you two getting this from? Is there like another thread or something? OP has not mentioned anything about doing a peripheral port.



https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-eng...-seals-259056/



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Old 07-05-2015, 04:40 PM   #22  
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lol....lets reinvent the wheel.

It a simple 23 year old position sensor (also exact same part used on FD RX-7 and some Mazda piston engines) I see zero benefit in trying to code in with two units with OBDII?

OP perhaps you are confusing the fact that the FD RX-7 does have two (same as RX-8) e shaft sensors?
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Old 07-05-2015, 05:28 PM   #23  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
lol....lets reinvent the wheel.

It a simple 23 year old position sensor (also exact same part used on FD RX-7 and some Mazda piston engines) I see zero benefit in trying to code in with two units with OBDII?

OP perhaps you are confusing the fact that the FD RX-7 does have two (same as RX-8) e shaft sensors?
Did you even bother reading this thread before posting?
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:25 PM   #24  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonB View Post
Has anyone fitted/mod the RX8 with dual e shaft position sensors? I'll design my own code to handle the 2nd sensor, but I'm just wondering if anyone has created the brackets or modded the case to handle 2? The 2nd one would be for backup failure purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
Did you even bother reading this thread before posting?
Did you?..

And the answer to OP is no.
And there is still no point in adding/designing/adapting another e sensor, making two for RX-8... even for 'back up', they don't fail.

Your point is?
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:37 PM   #25  
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Ash,

I have to disagree with you. Your general statement of "they don't fail".

There isn't a part made today that does not fail. Eventually EVERY part will fail if given enough time.

I do however agree with redundant systems. The AH-64D has similar redundancies. How can you argue with the most technilogically advanced helicopter on the planet?

Yes I know, I know the RX8 doesn't fly. My point remains the same.

Travis
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