BHR Ignition kit + Sparks change
11-27-2010, 01:09 AM
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BHR Ignition kit + Sparks change
My new kit arrived and since I have a broken hand, I changed my mind and instead of attempting the upgrade myself, I took it to the garage. However, I realized later that the kids there have never done this on RX8 before and they were trying to translate the instructions and I heard them saying something like L1 goes to bottom L2 goes on the top, etc. and I am not sure if they will do it correctly.
My question is: if they do something wrong, i.e. wrong spark plugs location, or wrong wire direction, or anything else that could be installed the wrong way, will there be a way for me to tell? will all mistakes cause the car to operate with significantly lower performace that you can realise without a dyno?
I just want to be sure that everything was installed correctly and I don't want to have doubt all the time that maybe something they connected wrong might be causing other problems.
My question is: if they do something wrong, i.e. wrong spark plugs location, or wrong wire direction, or anything else that could be installed the wrong way, will there be a way for me to tell? will all mistakes cause the car to operate with significantly lower performace that you can realise without a dyno?
I just want to be sure that everything was installed correctly and I don't want to have doubt all the time that maybe something they connected wrong might be causing other problems.
11-27-2010, 01:23 AM
#2
oh boy... check it before you drive...
Assuming the electrical connection to the coil is correct:
L1 goes to bottom spark plug in front housing
T1 goes to top spark plug in front housing
L2 goes to bottom spark plug in rear housing
T2 goes to top spark plug in rear housing
you should be able to trace the wires from in the engine bay.
Assuming the electrical connection to the coil is correct:
L1 goes to bottom spark plug in front housing
T1 goes to top spark plug in front housing
L2 goes to bottom spark plug in rear housing
T2 goes to top spark plug in rear housing
you should be able to trace the wires from in the engine bay.
11-27-2010, 01:53 AM
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Ok, I've read those instructions but since I won't be able to see the wiring and spark location when I get my car, from driving perspective, will I be able to tell if they did it correctly? i.e will the car behave strange or maybe the loss will be so minor that I won't be able to realize?
11-27-2010, 06:48 AM
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Ok I verified with them that they followed that order. However, now I get new CELs.
Right after installation I got P0353 and P2800. P0353 was the one I used to get before about coil C but 2800 is new. I reset it and also performed ECU reset by pressing the brake pedal several times while on standby and after a while I got P2800 and P0002 but not 353 this time. I have no idea what could be wrong now or if there's something else I could do. I was told that maybe this change could have damaged my O2 sensor (which was replaced recently) or maybe I need to drive it at high rpm for a while so that carbon built-up at that area clears out.
What do you guys think?
Right after installation I got P0353 and P2800. P0353 was the one I used to get before about coil C but 2800 is new. I reset it and also performed ECU reset by pressing the brake pedal several times while on standby and after a while I got P2800 and P0002 but not 353 this time. I have no idea what could be wrong now or if there's something else I could do. I was told that maybe this change could have damaged my O2 sensor (which was replaced recently) or maybe I need to drive it at high rpm for a while so that carbon built-up at that area clears out.
What do you guys think?
11-27-2010, 07:15 AM
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What code reader are you using as the two you last listed(P2800 and P0002) aren't really associated with this car.
By the way, it can't hurt to verify that they put them in right and that they are secure on both ends!
Also, where did he ground them?
By the way, it can't hurt to verify that they put them in right and that they are secure on both ends!
Also, where did he ground them?
Last edited by Mazurfer; 11-27-2010 at 07:19 AM.
11-27-2010, 07:31 AM
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I know I should verify their wiring but I have to take the intake box out to see clearly and now I have a broken finger so I can't do this.
I tried to see ground cable but I can't see anything as it is now. If they didn't ground at all the car wouldn't start, right?
Since those 2 codes now are not Mazda specific, where could I find their meaning?
11-27-2010, 07:36 AM
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I tried using "google" and not much came up. There is some info, but didn't really seem to make a lot of sense. Try it.......I used ECU P2800" and then "ECU P0002".
At this point, I'm thinking you should disconnect the battery for 15 minutes or so, then do the 20 pedal stomp reset again(watching for oil gauge sweep) and then trying it all again.
Either that or wait for Ray or someone at BHR to chime in this morning.
I also used search on this site and came up empty. Now knowing you used the scangauge(which should have been okay), maybe I'll go look and see if their site has anything.
Oh.........when are you plugging the Scangauge in? I think you should have this plugged in BEFORE you start the car. I no longer have my scangauge in my car, but it is mounted in the daughters car and comes on with the car.
At this point, I'm thinking you should disconnect the battery for 15 minutes or so, then do the 20 pedal stomp reset again(watching for oil gauge sweep) and then trying it all again.
Either that or wait for Ray or someone at BHR to chime in this morning.
I also used search on this site and came up empty. Now knowing you used the scangauge(which should have been okay), maybe I'll go look and see if their site has anything.
Oh.........when are you plugging the Scangauge in? I think you should have this plugged in BEFORE you start the car. I no longer have my scangauge in my car, but it is mounted in the daughters car and comes on with the car.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 11-27-2010 at 07:40 AM.
11-27-2010, 07:44 AM
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Just found that:
P0002 Engine Fuel Regulator Cntl Ckt
P2800 Transmission Range Sensor "B" Circuit (PRNDL Input)
Does it make sense at all?
BTW: SG is plugged in permanently in my car
I'll try battery disconnect and ECU reset again and see what happens
P0002 Engine Fuel Regulator Cntl Ckt
P2800 Transmission Range Sensor "B" Circuit (PRNDL Input)
Does it make sense at all?
BTW: SG is plugged in permanently in my car
I'll try battery disconnect and ECU reset again and see what happens
11-27-2010, 07:48 AM
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No....I don't think they make sense, and I saw those as well. I really don't believe either one. That's why I suggested unplugging the battery for awhile, and then trying again.
I mean, it's possible they didn't hook something back up right, bujt you haven't said the car runs poorly, so I think I would try what I suggested. Just remember after unplugging the battery, you could have stalling issues for a brief time or two(drive cycles).
I mean, it's possible they didn't hook something back up right, bujt you haven't said the car runs poorly, so I think I would try what I suggested. Just remember after unplugging the battery, you could have stalling issues for a brief time or two(drive cycles).
11-27-2010, 08:04 AM
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No....I don't think they make sense, and I saw those as well. I really don't believe either one. That's why I suggested unplugging the battery for awhile, and then trying again.
I mean, it's possible they didn't hook something back up right, bujt you haven't said the car runs poorly, so I think I would try what I suggested. Just remember after unplugging the battery, you could have stalling issues for a brief time or two(drive cycles).
I mean, it's possible they didn't hook something back up right, bujt you haven't said the car runs poorly, so I think I would try what I suggested. Just remember after unplugging the battery, you could have stalling issues for a brief time or two(drive cycles).
I've disconnected the battery and I'm waiting for the 15mins.
Yes I know about the calibration cycle after reset. I hope it doesn't do what it usually does. In the past, I think due to stack throttle, the engine could not stay on and this would go for many weeks. We'll see in a few minutes.
Thanks for your help.
11-27-2010, 08:13 AM
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No good. I disconnected for 15 mins. Reset ECU and after a minute the same codes came back (2800 & 0002). Also, I noticed that from the exhaust it smells more gas than usual. That worries me now.
11-27-2010, 01:06 PM
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Having also replied via e-mail, I will elaborate here as well (with some new info I am able to now be more concise);
1) Is your car a manual trans or automatic? You may have issues with your MAF sensor either way.
2) Please stop resetting the PCM as we need it to gather as much info and as many codes as we can get.
3) If the 002 code is legit, and your exhaust smells of fuel, I think we have a legit issue here too.
4) Might you know which PCM you have in your car? JDM, North American, etc?
5) The installation instructions are clear in stating the ignition coil orientation, the spark plug location, and maybe even the trigger wire colors in the Mazda harness in the event your installer(s) swapped the OEM coil connectors around somehow.
Matters such as this are EXACTLY why I had to add all the disclaimers I did in the preface of our instruction sheet. You had CEL codes prior to installing this ignition system and, now that the problems have continued or worsened.......... here we are.
1) Is your car a manual trans or automatic? You may have issues with your MAF sensor either way.
2) Please stop resetting the PCM as we need it to gather as much info and as many codes as we can get.
3) If the 002 code is legit, and your exhaust smells of fuel, I think we have a legit issue here too.
4) Might you know which PCM you have in your car? JDM, North American, etc?
5) The installation instructions are clear in stating the ignition coil orientation, the spark plug location, and maybe even the trigger wire colors in the Mazda harness in the event your installer(s) swapped the OEM coil connectors around somehow.
Matters such as this are EXACTLY why I had to add all the disclaimers I did in the preface of our instruction sheet. You had CEL codes prior to installing this ignition system and, now that the problems have continued or worsened.......... here we are.
2) Ok. however, everytime I reset the codes, the same exact codes return.
3) Yes I noticed more fuel smell but that wasn't the case before the installation. Also, I never got those 2 codes before installation. I only used to get the 0353 code which was Coil C failure.
4) JDM PCM
5) I agree but my question is if it would be reasonable to have those symptoms if any of those guidelines was not followed. i.e ground or orientation. Could those really cause what I mentioned?
- No, I didn't have any other codes prior to installation. I only had the P0353 code. Also, no gas smell and no strange issues prior to installation.
- Also, is it possible that I cause any damage by using my car with this scenario now?
11-28-2010, 12:05 AM
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So I will check for ground cable and wire sequence but please tell me if, from what I've said would be ok to drive the car until the problem is resolved or if that could cause damage.
Also, for ground, I noticed just an O-ring on the kit so I should assume that an extra piece of wire should have been used to connect to the 10mm bolt on the chasis. Am I right?
Also, for ground, I noticed just an O-ring on the kit so I should assume that an extra piece of wire should have been used to connect to the 10mm bolt on the chasis. Am I right?
11-28-2010, 01:13 AM
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I checked the wires and they seem ok. I still can't find the ground wiring as I don't have very good view to that point.
I noticed that the 4 plastic spacers and the engine bracket shown in the attached photo were not used. I know the bracket is not important but what about the spacers. Could they cause problem if they weren't installed?
A clue which I don't know if it matters is that when I reset the codes they don't come back while the car is running but when I switch it off and then on, they come back within seconds. So, this makes me think that it is something that is triggered in the first seconds of engine start and then it goes. However the light is still there and I don't know if my thought is reasonable.
See some photos and notice the one with the red circle where the basis of the bracket just sits on the bottom and there is no bolt. Maybe they had to do this because they haven't used the spacers?
I noticed that the 4 plastic spacers and the engine bracket shown in the attached photo were not used. I know the bracket is not important but what about the spacers. Could they cause problem if they weren't installed?
A clue which I don't know if it matters is that when I reset the codes they don't come back while the car is running but when I switch it off and then on, they come back within seconds. So, this makes me think that it is something that is triggered in the first seconds of engine start and then it goes. However the light is still there and I don't know if my thought is reasonable.
See some photos and notice the one with the red circle where the basis of the bracket just sits on the bottom and there is no bolt. Maybe they had to do this because they haven't used the spacers?
Last edited by andreasy; 11-28-2010 at 07:03 AM.
11-28-2010, 07:26 PM
#19
Well my BHR ign was put on 9 days ago, and while the Scanguage read about 259-269 max horsepower last month, it now reads about 285 horsepower and the stock exhaust is actually noisier now.
My 8 had 22k miles, never missed then, and hasn't missed after install so I got about a 6% power increase!
The best car parts I ever bought!
My 8 had 22k miles, never missed then, and hasn't missed after install so I got about a 6% power increase!
The best car parts I ever bought!
11-29-2010, 09:52 AM
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I took my car for emissions test and everything was fine after all. No fuel from exhaust as I was thinking before (it was cold morning when I noticed the smell). I noticed significant change in engine running. Runs smoother and faster (reasonable after running for 50 days with failed coil).
And now about the codes. I don't really know if anyone is in position to know this but I am using my systems engineer aproach to analyze this issue. I can't help it, the thoughts come in my mind and I need answers which of course is possible that noone knows but I will try:
I noticed that when I clear those 2 codes (0002, 2800) while the car is running or before I switch on (doesn't really matter), I can drive for hours and those 2 codes will not come. However, when I switch off, at the next engine start, they will always come within 10-25 seconds. What troubles my mind is the pattern at which it happens. This means that during my driving, it collects data that are not important at that time to trigger a CEL but at the next start or even before the engine starts, the ECU must be using those info within the 1st minute of startup and at that time it will trigger the CEL. Afterwards, those data must not be significant since it will not trigger it again, even if I erase the codes.
Having said the above, can anyone tell what sort of data are analyzed that way?
Don't take me wrong for asking such questions because I'm not doing it just out of curiocity of how the engine works but instead, I have to take a decision of whether I'm keeping this system or return it and get ordinary coils. I have to be sure that if I have to live with those CEL, my car will be safe and economic.
And now about the codes. I don't really know if anyone is in position to know this but I am using my systems engineer aproach to analyze this issue. I can't help it, the thoughts come in my mind and I need answers which of course is possible that noone knows but I will try:
I noticed that when I clear those 2 codes (0002, 2800) while the car is running or before I switch on (doesn't really matter), I can drive for hours and those 2 codes will not come. However, when I switch off, at the next engine start, they will always come within 10-25 seconds. What troubles my mind is the pattern at which it happens. This means that during my driving, it collects data that are not important at that time to trigger a CEL but at the next start or even before the engine starts, the ECU must be using those info within the 1st minute of startup and at that time it will trigger the CEL. Afterwards, those data must not be significant since it will not trigger it again, even if I erase the codes.
Having said the above, can anyone tell what sort of data are analyzed that way?
Don't take me wrong for asking such questions because I'm not doing it just out of curiocity of how the engine works but instead, I have to take a decision of whether I'm keeping this system or return it and get ordinary coils. I have to be sure that if I have to live with those CEL, my car will be safe and economic.
11-29-2010, 10:10 AM
#21
FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC
iTrader: (9)
ill trade u new coils and rb wires with about 1-2k on them plus some $ for your bhr kit
11-29-2010, 11:01 AM
#22
The check engine light comes on after you turn the car off then on because you must do a full cycle on-off-on with the ignition key. That ends the PCM "drive-cycle". You just completed the "trip" so the PCM turns on the check engine light to show you have an error in the system.
11-29-2010, 11:17 AM
#23
"I took my car for emissions test and everything was fine after all. No fuel from exhaust as I was thinking before (it was cold morning when I noticed the smell). I noticed significant change in engine running. Runs smoother and faster (reasonable after running for 50 days with failed coil)."
Cars with cats are gonna smell like gas when stared cold, and the RX8 has a really strong start up gas smell.
Cat has to get up to temp to catalyze the emissions which takes a few minutes.
Cars with cats are gonna smell like gas when stared cold, and the RX8 has a really strong start up gas smell.
Cat has to get up to temp to catalyze the emissions which takes a few minutes.
Last edited by REDRX3RX8; 11-29-2010 at 11:20 AM.
11-29-2010, 11:28 AM
#24
I don't know, but my wife notices EVERYTHING, and commented on the gas smell getting out to get the mail which is about 2 or 3 minutes around the block.
Hell, that was before my BHR ign, so it might not do it anymore. My wife can definitely find out without me asking her!
Hell, that was before my BHR ign, so it might not do it anymore. My wife can definitely find out without me asking her!
11-29-2010, 10:40 PM
#25
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If the exhaust gases are shown to be clean at the MOT center (I'm not sure if you call it like this in the USA), could there still be problem?