Spin9k

3 sec RX-8 0-60 ElectrochargerTM ?
Ran across this site in my search for innovative performance upgrades. A bit iffy, but the idea is sound, the tax deduction is real (up to $2K) and the stated performance improvement would give us a what? ~3 sec 0-60 time!

Sign me up. Except they don't sell it yet, and even they are getting tired of waiting to get it out. Hey if the Prius can have hybrid electric motor technology why not an RX-8?

A couple excerpts below, read the FAQs they have the nitty gritty about what it does (little page icons bottom right on home page). A fun read as you just never know ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Electrocharger™ Increases Your Initial Rate of Acceleration!

The first product the company is introducing is the ElectrochargerTM, which is the world’s first retro-fittable hybrid electric drive system. The ElectrochargerTM can be fitted to almost any modern car or truck and in turn increases fuel economy and performance, while reducing emissions. The ElectrochargerTM is called a power adder and is grouped in the aftermarket along with superchargers and turbochargers. The ElectrochargerTM costs less than forced induction systems, such as superchargers or turbochargers, and is quickly installed without any internal modifications to the engine. The ElectrochargerTM can even be installed in conjunction with a turbocharger or supercharger in order to assist in providing the maximum performance for the vehicle.

Q. Is the Electrocharger™ a performance upgrade?

A. Yes, it decreases your 0-60 time by a minimum of 3 seconds and sheds at least 3 seconds off your 1/4 mile time, over stock vehicle performance

Jan 17th, '06: The Electrocharger maker has just merged with another company and they are working to demonstrate a working hybridized vehicle at the 2006 SEMA in Nov. There will be an official announcement in 1 month. Honestly, we are growing sick of this never-ending delay too cos' God knows what happens in 10 months - maybe we would be retrofitting cold fusion generators onto our cars by then! But this is out of our control and we are merely the messengers at this stage.

http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/elec...ctrocharger.php

=============
PS. Doubt this is not realistic & therefore never possible?? Check out this document then....

http://www.hondanews.jp/PDF/factbook...12/11_12_e.pdf

from Honda Motor and their newest electric motor for Hybrids shows an 80Kw power & 272 N-m torque output at up to 11,000 rpm (stock RX-8 is 170Kw power & 211Nm torque output) and therefore why this is NOT such as crazy idea after all!

shawn81

OHHHHHHHHHHH i donno about that man 3..... doesn't sound right ? from 5.6 to 3 that a big gap

cR@zY e1GhT

yeah i hate to be a skeptic but I want someone else to be the test dummy on this one.

terrypk1

i don't know about this one. sounds weird. cutting the time by 3 seconds doesn't make sense.

NgoRX8

iTrader: (1)

WOOT! go for it Spin!

...

Imidazole

Nothing can guarantee a 3 second drop.

Nothing.

Not even an additional 200hp.

robertdot

This is (kinda) old hat. I'm pretty sure it's come up around here before then, since I blogged about it.

If you read about it (google electrocharger... there are some other forums from back-in-the-day that discuss it), the "3 second drop" is speculation. From what I remember, while these guys are supposed to be MIT graduates, they don't quite understand that alot of car people will call BS on marketing numbers.

My thoughts: Great idea. Assuming it works as well as I think it would, it'd be an easy add-on (as easy as some of these supercharger kits that are supposed to come out) and would make a few more horsepower. It's not going to turn the RX-8 into a souped-up Prius, but I think it's a decent power mod. And you should be able to bolt it on in addition to a supercharger or turbo charger, as it would sit where the alternator does.

You have to remember that electric motors have almost all of their power at zero RPM. Given that, it'd be great for the '8, which has most of it's power at higher RPMs. Not to mention that electric motors power is measured differently than gas engines (peak HP vs. continuous HP). Anyway, it's a cool idea. Dunno if it will ever see the light of day. I hope it will. I'd buy one if the bang-for-the-buck is right.

robertdot

While I'm at it, I feel inclined to say that their so-called "super capacitors" are only good for bursts of speed. When they say "helps initial acceleration", that means that it will run out. Imagine a bottle of nitrous that lasts a short amount of time, but recharges after breaking. It's different than a battery. Current hybrids use batteries to offer gradual flows of electricity to the electric part of the drive train. A "super capacitor" would charge quickly and discharge quickly. For the sake of comparison, the flash in a disposable camera is powered by a capacitor. The difference is that these "super capacitors" are supposed to hold a bigger charge and are refilled from a bigger battery and from regenerative breaking.

Whatever the case, I still think it is cool and wish that the electrocharger was on the market.

Spin9k

And then there is (was) the electric 'supercharger' RX-8 from Mazda idea that was going around not long ago. That's what this sounded like to me in a DIY form. Likely the gating factor has been (will be) further development of the battery pack or electrical storage cell. This is where technology has lagged and where key advances are being made, therefore making this idea more and more feasible as time progresses. Hybrid development is driving this which is good.

If if if.... but this relatively simple 'booster motor' mod would be something. Instant extra ~200 ft/lbs of torque, even if only for 30 sec or so would keep me happy... then recharge from the motor or deceleration energy.

Moonrover333

drops 3 sec of quartermile so we would run 11's doubtful

bureau13

The concept sounds cool, and may in fact be sound, but their marketing bozos need to get their heads checked. You can't have one thing that can bolt on to any car and make a minimum 3 second drop. That is just stupid. So if I get one for my McLaren F1 I'm hitting 60 in like 0.5 seconds? I think not.

jds

bureau13

Ummm...I should add that no, I do not in fact have a McLaren F1 :D

zoom44

One Word=JATO

Each JATO bottle provides about 1,000 pounds of thrust for 14 seconds. i bet just one is enough to make that 3 second drop.

Jato Car urban legend

http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1995-04.html

globi

P=U*I=600A*48V=28.8kW

However I highly doubt that they're gonna get more than 80 Efficiency, so maybe 23 kW at the very most which is about 30 HP.

So yes if mount this thing on my bicycle I can probably get 3s off my 1/4 mile time.

guy321

There's an all electric car that does 3 second 1/4 miles. Of course it doesn't run much longer after that.

globi

^ holy moly, that's faster than top fuel.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I take it that this aux power producing module drives back through the crank pulley? What sort of belt drive will it take to deliver this power to the pulley.

Next problem is that the power has to go through a crank (e-shaft for u) to the flywheel. Therefore that shaft has to hold torque that it was never designed for. You might get away with it on a 500 inch Chevy or a Chrysler Hemi but not with much less. Just for one spot you can relate to think of the flange that the flywheel bolts to can it live without shearing off?

How about on a piston engine there is little overlap on the throw to the mains. When you get to the last throw all the power has to pass through that part of the structure. Add a lot of power to the front of the crank and if it doesn't twist the crank snout off ot still has to go throgh all the other arms.

Now with the small block Chevy the newest custom race cranks have a big block snout on them. This is just because they drive the power steering and the drysump pump along with the water pump and alt. So if the stock snout has problems with that what will happen here. Oh, we are talking billet steel custom cranks having this problem not cast iron factory ones.

Think what would happen putting this on a Honda?
Those are my instant thought on this. They need to get more practical.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Can you convert that to G-force?

guy321

i cant even convert standard to metric..

Here's info tho. (i lied, 3.7 sec and has a 300mile range, wow.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Propulsion_tzero

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

did you read the stuff at the bottom of the page on their site, classic

From the Clint Eastwood movie, The Outlaw Josey Wales:

Spin9k

Thanks for that insite RP. It's the simple things like this that we often overlook on the way to nirvana lol. So you'd at least need a serious special belt or chain drive to transmit ~100Hp to o the crank... and a more significant piece of metal up front to not snap itself right off... ha ha! Oh well, maybe they we working on an old Chevy 6 cyc engine or whatever.

And it does make sense, having looked into the latest electric-assist hybrids, this makes perfect sense in hindsight. The trend seems to be towards an integrated flywheel / motor assembly ... or at-the-wheel motor ... of course this would all be most sensible ... put the 2ndary power after the IC motor so no stress on it.

Going at adding power in another manner that is right in your area of expertise RP - can you express an opinion on this ---- http://www.boosthead.com/product.php?id=18. Seems to be a sensible guy doing a lot of emperical work over years to come up with what he wants ...i.e, an electric supercharger. Doesn't appear to be much more than a motor and a good old supercharger. Seems motor heat and electrical capacity are his major shortcomings. You may know of it already, looks like he is going in a right direction except for a couple points.

He mentions 15 sec/shot for heat reasons unless a cooling shroud is put on the motor housing. And I gather (although it's not clear from his web site) he uses voltage to change the amount of boost... from 48-24 volts it sound like... or maybe 12 would give just enough boost for us... an then perhaps overheating would not cause the difficulties he's experienced with hi-boost on other IC engines AND we could recharge off the alternator too. Combining all that perhaps one problem down.

Second, power. Until very recently that was a problem without a solution, but then there is the development of the 'UltraCapacitor'. Sounds like science fiction, but they are available to buy and have almost unimagineable power/weight/size. Case in point the product developed for hybrid autos "The BOOSTCAP MC2600, a 2.7-volt, 2,600-farad cell." here: http://www.maxwell.com/pdf/uc/datasheets/MC2600.pdf - now combine a bunch of them and Yee Haa! that's not a misprint - 430 farad in a 16V -16.5" x 6.5" x 3" 5000A (!) short circuit rated, weatherproof package here http://www.maxwell.com/pdf/uc/datash...MOD2600-16.pdf for $366 up depending on quantity.

Made of these little 2.7V 2,600 F guys weighing in at just over 1 lb each .. virtual unlimited recharge ... unlimited life cycle ... and this is real ... not some pie in the sky research project. Makes these fancy looking hybrids supercaps kids put in cars for their sound systems look like AAA cells lol.

So RP, combine this with air cooled Thomas Knight Supercharger.. what do you think ... tell me the problems

Cheers.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

hardly, Top Fuel runs the 1/4 mile in 4.5 sec, the new 505hp C6 Z06 Vette runs a 3.8 sec 0 - 60 mph time

maybe they meant 3 second 0-60 foot

yiksing

Good now our 8 can challenge the Lotec Sirius

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I have commented on Mr Knight before. I feel he is the only person to be producing a real electric supercharger. He has with the higher voltage needed for the job. At the same time I can't say that electric is the way to go for general use. There will always be the special case where it is usefull.

Everyone should be carefull not to confuse his blower to those heater fans selling on Ebay. I'm sure he is trying to fight that battle by himself.

I cannot get into the capasitor thing as that is out of my area. I do understand it and hope it can be usefull to people who do know how to impliment these things like Mr Knight.

You guys keep searching these things out, it is all interesting and you never know where the next breakthrough will come from.

globi

TeamRX8 I hate to be nitpicking, but since you asked for it; this is what guy321 wrote:
3 seconds is 1.5 second less than 4.5 seconds, or is it not?



Also 30 Hp won't get you 3 seconds but probably won't kill the crank either:
If the electric motor would drive a supercharger instead of the crank you'd might get 120 HP from that 30 HP motor, which is probably still not enough to reduce the 1/4 mile time by 3 seconds.