Hard 8

My RX-8 paint is like new, except for some hard water spots. I just want to clean it and wax it.

I have the Porter-Cable random-orbit buffer and a brand-new set of pads for it from Sonus (orange, green, and blue, plus two micro-fiber bonnets). I have spoken with the folks at Meguiar's, noted their recommendations, and ordered their No. 80 Professional Speed Glaze, No. 83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish, and Next Generation Tech Wax, plus I have their clay bar and Quick Detailer spray and their Gold Class car wash.

Here's my tentative approach:

• Hand-wash with Dawn and dry gently with my Griot's all-cotton towels.
• Use the clay bar on the water spots patiently, using the Quick Detailer.
• For any remaining hard water spots, use the P-C buffer and No. 80 Professional Speed Glaze, with the green (?) pad (on the water spots only, and not the rest of the car, since I think it's not needed). [Is green the right pad? How fast should I run the P-C? Should I remove the polish with my Griot's "Wax" all-cotton towels?]
• Apply the Meguiar's wax by hand and then remove it with the P-C buffer, using the micro-fiber bonnets. [How fast should I run the buffer?]

Does this approach sound good? What about glazing the rest of the car? Seems like I should be doing some further polishing or glazing steps, per other peoples' suggestions, but my paint already looks great, so do I really need to do that, and if so, what products should I use?

We also have a dark green Odyssey with some severe scratches going fairly deep into the color coat. I was thinking of using the same approach for the van, except using the No. 83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish to try to hide/level out the scratches. How fast should I run the buffer, and which pad should I use to do that?

Basically, I intend to follow this guy's approach unless you guys have some better ideas.

Thanks!!

romulus

Hard8
It seems that you are pretty much inclined in using Meguiar’s products. Before answering your question, let me tell you that I also frequent Meguiar’s forum (www.meguiarsonline.com). I learned so much and even I had the opportunity to attend their 101 detailing class in their headquarter in Irvine. If you are interested in learning more, you won’t be disappointed with all the help you will get from the members.
Anyways, here are my comments:

• Never wash your car with Dawn or any liquid detergent. Maybe you can get away a couple of time but in the long run you will ruin your paint. It will dry up the clear coat and you will have clear coat failure (it happened to my cousin in 2 years from getting his new car). Any car wash should do it. Since you already ordered Cold Class wash, you can’t go wrong.

• Yes, clay your water spots. It might not come out but at least you will know that your paint is free of bonded contaminants. By the way, why not claying the whole car? Your finish will be as slick as glass. Further claying might only require the horizontal areas like the hood the next time you wax your car.

• If I remember correctly, the orange pad from sonus is a bit harder than Meg yellow pad. I believe that the green one should be fine since is the medium density, try both orange and green is a seperate test spot to see what works best for you. In any case, you are right in using #80 first. Use the least agressive product first! If #80 doesn’t cut it, step up with #83 which is a bit more aggressive. Just be aware, don’t let your product dry out when polishing; otherwise you will ended up streaks, and scratches from the pad. I normally use a speed setting of 4.5 and use slow arm motion with overlapping passes. You can remove the polish with your cotton towels, I don’t see why not. Just remember that you can remove your polish from the finish while wet unlike waxes.

• You can apply the NXT wax by hand; nothing wrong with that. But since you have the Sonus pad set. Use your PC with the softest pad. I think is the blue one. Go over a few passes and move one to new area. Oh, set your PC to 3 and you don’t need to apply too much pressure. Just the weight of the PC should do it. Then use the hardest pad, or in this case the orange one with you microfiber bonnet and remove the wax after dry (10 to 15 min). Set your PC speed to 5. Once you remove the wax, move on to new area because you need to let the wax to set. After that you can apply another coat of wax after 20 minutes but other people wait 12 hours. As for my self I rather wait 20 minutes. Why? 2 coats of waxes will make things more uniform. And remember, you will be surprise that you don’t need to use a lot of wax. A little will go a long way plus it makes easier to remove.

Ok, that is all for now. Please feel free to ask more question or even better post your concern at Meguiar’s forum. They have a lot of car crazy and professional detailers that can help you better. As for me, I am still a enthusiast detailer.
Cheers!

Hard 8

Excellent! Thanks! EXACTLY what I wanted to know. A few responses and questions with regard to your questions and comments:

• I was thinking of using Dawn only to remove the current wax. Normally I use only non-stripping car wash like the Meguiar's. Don't you endorse using something harsh, like Dawn, to strip the wax periodically in anticipation of re-waxing? Or is that a bad idea? Should I just leave the current wax on?
• I don't have a real bias toward Meguiar's, except that I know it's good and it's easy to find and I already have a lot of their products.
• I should have made it more clear but, yes, I think I will use the clay bar on the entire car, not just the water spots.
• Other than washing, clay barring (and, if needed, using the #80 on the water spots), do you recommend any other steps (cleaning, glazing?) before I wax?

Thanks again!!

romulus

Not a problem, glad to help.
* There is a lot of controversy regarding using something harsh to remove the current wax. Yes, I know that Zaino recommend using it. For me washing my car with dawn before waxing is like washing my hands with carb cleaner before applying hand lotion. I rather use Dove soap.

I understand that you are reading the tips and how to in Autopia which is a good source to learn. Normally to prep your finish for a new coat of wax, you will need a paint cleaner. Not to confuse you with other products, I will concentrate with what you already have or just ordered.

#80 is a paint cleaner/polishing. It has both diminishing abrasive and chemical cleaner that will remove the current wax. The beauty of this product, it contains also Meguiar’s trade secrets oils that will remove the swirls and paint defects like water etching without hazing your clear coat. It is more forgiven than #83, it will take a longer to dry out so chances of “dry buffing” is less.
Just remember that both product will remove some paint; in this case clear coat. People has use #80 to polish their cars 3-4 times a year for several years without getting the clear coat too thin. Oh, I forgot to mention in my previous post. If you ended using #83, is recommended to follow up with #80 because of the TS oils.

My suggestion, the next time you wax your car and assuming you don’t have any paint defects (like swirls, water etching, bird drops etching) use a dedicated chemical cleaner like Meguiars “Deep crystal paint cleaner; step 1” #A-3016. This one will not remove paint but it will strip your wax without harming your paint. So you are good to go for waxing.
http://meguiars.com/estore/product_d...eaner&sku=A-30

* Same here, I can find their products locally through my local auto part store or auto paint store. Plus I wanted to learn and see personally what their stuffs can do for my cars.

* Oh no problem. I was not sure if you are only claying the water spots.

* Ok, here is my steps and products I use:
**Wash with NXT wash – once every two weeks

**Medium Detail once a month. (clay, clean old wax with Meg’s Medallion premium paint cleaner, 2 coats of NXT wax.). But sometimes I skip the cleaner because NXT wax has just a hint of cleaner. Also Claying will remove some old waxes too.

**Full detail once every quarter. (clay, #80 or #83, #7 “show car glaze”, and 2 coats of NXT

**In between detail I use California Duster and Quick detailer

I mentioned #7 but is harder to remove and there is a technique. If you want glaze I recommend using the “deep crystal polish, step2” #A2116
It has the same trade secret oils but much easier to remove. Just apply thin, work it a bit on the paint and remove. No need to let it dry.
http://meguiars.com/estore/product_d...olish&sku=A-21

Some people ask "trade secret oils and wax? Wax will not bond to the paint if there is oils" Yes, thats is true but the folks of Meg make their product compatible to each other. That will bond to the paint with no problem. Before the start of this past raining season, I use the #7 and NXT wax and through the season water was still beading on my car. I did not wash my car for three months.

Note that the key is Evaluate your finish first to determine what you need. There are times that I don’t use stronger products because is not needed. So after washing and drying you will see what else you need to do.

Again, I encourage you to lurk in their forum and you will see what I am talking about; specially in their “show off and extreme makeover” and “detail day class” section to see the improvement that you can get with the right products and technique.
Cheers!

Hard 8

Thanks again, Romulus! I'll take your advice. I really appreciate the help.

If I do use a glaze, what's the best way to apply and remove it? Same as wax?

romulus

For glaze, I normally use a foam applicator, apply a thin coat in a 16"x16" area by hand. Go over with the applicator the same area twice and wipe it with a MF towell then move one to the next area. It does not matter what direction you apply the glaze.. Up and down; side to side; or circular motion.. as long as you get a even application. You will notice that the paint has a deeper look than a non glazed area.

Hard 8

Thanks again, man. I think I will condense your advice, plus the Autopia DIY, into a simple set of instructions that I can print out and use each time. I will post them here when I finish them, and you can comment if you like. Much appreciated.

romulus

Cool!... Happy detailing!
:D

09Factor

Funny reading this now. I did the EXACT, and i mean exact same thing 3 weeks ago.. but started @ #83 and went to the Step two and then Tech wax. I didn't clay because no clay bar. Anyway smoother than glass and no more halos in pictures....Yea....

Hard 8

Hey Romulus, here's an update: Meguir's never shipped me the No. 80 and 83 polishes I had ordered, or the NXT wax. But I wanted to try the buffer anyway. So yesterday I tried an experiment: I cleaned and clay-barred my hood, where the hard water spots are.

The clay bar didn't get rid of the spots, so some no. 80 will be in order, I guess. Anyway, I decided to try waxing the hood with the P-C buffer. So I used the softest Sonus pad (blue?) and put some Meguiar's Gold Class paste wax on it, and used the buffer at speed 3 to lay down the wax on the hood. This process went fine, as I had masked off the headlights, corner lights, etc.

Then, after the wax looked dry, I put a Sonus microfiber bonnet on the hardest Sonus pad (orange?), and set the speed to 3, and tried to remove the wax with it. It started out great, but maybe the bonnet loaded up with wax, or maybe there was some wet wax, because before long I was just smearing the wax all over the hood. I tried faster and slower speeds, but 3 seemed best of all, but still, it was just smearing the wax.

Finally, I gave up on the buffer and used a Giot's "Wax" terry towel to remove the remaining wax.

The hood now looks great, and the water spots are pretty hard to see now. No swirls or smears or anything; great reflectivity. But here's my question: What was I doing wrong with the microfiber bonnet? Is there way way to prevent that smearing from occurring? Do I need to stop and clean the bonnet periodically? If so, then it's probably too much hassle compared to simply removing the wax by hand, as I did.

Thanks for any more advice.

P.S. I just re-read your advice, above. Stupid me. Sounds like I should have waited longer for the wax to dry, and run the buffer at a higher speed (5, instead of 3). I think I waited only about five minutes, instead of 10 - 15. I'll try that next time. Do I need to clean the bonnet before using it again?

romulus

At first, I thought that you were laying the wax too thick. But after reading your last paragraph, the main thing is to let they wax dry. One thing I normally do when my bonnets become loaded up with wax is to flip it over inside out and use the fresh side to finish removing the wax. Again, I normally use one bonnet to remove the wax from my car because I lay it thin, and let it fully dry before removing it. Sometimes someone will ask, how much is too much? With a liquid wax, I apply an “X” on my finishing PC pad, spread over half of the hood without turning on my PC. After that I turn it on and go over with overlapping passes.
Yes, you should wash your bonnets with regular laundry detergent after each detailing. No fabric softener or bleach because is microfiber. Once cleaned you can air dry them or use your dryer with low heat.
Anyways, here are two articles posted at meguiars online forum by Mike Phillips regarding water spots and when is time to remove the wax.
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...?threadid=2166

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...?threadid=4891

Hard 8

Cool; thanks. I see that, from your second link, I have the Type II water spots -- below the surface etchings. And I have a brand-new tube of Scratch X sitting at home, which is what he recommends. Hmmm.

P.S. His lower photos could almost be from my car! The red with gold flakes looks just like mine, as do the marks.

romulus

With Scratch X, use a foam applicator and work the spot with a lot of PASSION! until it turns clear. Wipe it off and check. You may need to repeat 2 or 3 times times to get it off.

Hard 8

Cool; thanks. I will try to get some more bonnets and foam applicators, etc. (I don't think my Sonus bonnets are reversible.)

romulus

I haven's seen any MF bonnets that are not reversible from any manufacturer. Its pretty much a MF towel with an elastic band. If you can see nap in the other side as well, you are good to go.
In any case, you can try this guys (in this case gal) to get other goodies

http://store.bettercarcare.com/bonnets.html

Hard 8

Cool. Hey, that's my Sonus bonnet in your link. I guess maybe it is reversible. Who knew?

Yesterday my Meguiar's shipment arrived: NXT liquid wax, nos. 80 and 83 polishes (big 16-ounce jugs), and spray detailer. I will probably hit our beat-up minivan this weekend; maybe take some before and after shots.

romulus

Great! I did use my wife's beater when I was doing my first detail. It did not came out as I wanted because newbie mistakes.
Have fun!
By the way, your NXT wax is 18oz and the #80 and 83 are 32 oz. It should last you for years. One tip... these products shelf life is about 4-5 years as long as you don't store them in freezing or extreme heat enviroments. And before you use a product, shake it really good.

Hard 8

Cool. I'm pretty sure the polishes are the 16 ouncers; they don't have handles and I didn't opt for the big-ol jugs they sell; they'more more like macro versions of quart-sized motor oil containers.

Hard 8

Oops! Thirsty-two ouncers they are; I checked last night. I don't know about Remus, but you are a God, Romulus.

romulus

Heh.... thanks for your praise but I am no God; just someone who like to share my knowledge and experience.

Blue87Sport

Does anyone else think that this thread is worthy of sticky status?

Lots of good information for folks with buffers.

Hard 8

I do. And it will be even more sticky-worthy when I get around to summarizing all of Romulus's good advice in a single post. But that may have to wait a bit ....

Hard 8

So I worked on our van's front right van (the worst panel) on Saturday, as an experiment.

It has a lot of scratches where (gulp) my little kids scraped it with rocks years ago. They are not as bad as key scratches (they're no wider than a hair) and not as deep as the metal, but they do get into the primer, I think.

I took some "before" pix, then tried the no. 80 polish with a medium pad, then the no. 83 with a hard pad.

It looks a lot better, but you can still feel the scratches with a fingernail, and the wax tends to stick in them and make them more visible.

I think I'll get a more abrasive Meguiar's product and try them again soon. Any suggestions, Romulus? Thanks. (Once I get them a lot better I'll post before and after pix.)

romulus

If you can feel the scratches with your nails, Its too deep to safely remove by polishing. There are more agresive products but on a non professional hand, it will do more harm than good. So, leave those alone. Otherwise you will ended up removing all the paint. Look at the big picture, you made your van shine by removing most of if not all the shallow scratches and swirls.
So what is left, are those deeper scratches in which pops right out since are not blended with the light imperfections. At that point you have two options. Repaint the car if you are picky about it or just stand back and admire your ride all shined up and maybe even better looking when just bought it at the dealership.

Hard 8

Thanks, man; I think you've saved me a lot more work and possible heartache. Every single panel on that van, except maybe the roof and one fender, has a dent or a deep scratch or a ding in it. It has only 50,000 miles on it but it's five years old, and every day we haul around at least three kids in it, plus we use it for endless Home Depot runs and furniture moves and ski trip and soccer games and road trips. It's probably worth only $8,000-10,000 or so now.

So, I think I'll take it as it is, and just keep it clean, waxed and running like a clock, which it does.