Pkskull77

I have had my black 8 for a little over a month now, and find myself cleaning it every weekend. While in the process of washing this weekend, the sunlight caught it at just the right angle and to my horror I saw Swirl Marks. I quickly lost the position I could see them in, and could never really get it back. I quickly went into denial, and blew it off as an illusion. Tonight while I was looking at the car under a street light I saw the same thing. So I guess its official my month old car has swirl marks. This leaves just two questions, how did they get there, and how do I get rid of them.

To start, I only waxed my car once, using mothers (I know it’s cheap, but it’s all I could get my hands on). I hand apply the wax with a terry cloth wax applier, and removed the wax with micro-fiber towels. When I clean the car I use a clean sponge, and micro-fiber towels. I use the same towels every week, but I wash them between uses. Quite frankly I am perplexed about what I am doing wrong. I don’t want to make the situation any worse, so until I figure out what I am doing wrong I am going to hold off on my weekly cleaning.

As for removal, I have no clue. I would appreciate any reasonable suggestion. I just ask that it be something the average person could reasonably perform. In other words, no professional techniques that can be screwed up ultimately causing more harm than good. If it’s that complicated I will pay a professional to do it.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Art Hazebrook

Did your dealership do any kind of detailing or paint sealing prior to your receiving the car???

6speed8

there could be a lot of reasons for the swirls, but some things to consider:

1. Don't use a sponge to wash the car. Use a wool mitt or terry (cotton) mitt
2. the applicator or removal cotton MUST be 100% cotton
3. When you wash your towels do not use bleach or fabric softner and use a second rinse cycle.

4. When you wash/wax the car make sure it is done inside (or at least with some kind of roof overhead) to prevent dust/debri from landing on the finish when as you get ready to dry or rub. Make sure the paint is cool to the touch as well.

5. Before you wash the car, rinse it off well to remove most of the heavier, grittier stuff, and also wash from the top down. If you live in an area where you get alot of grit on the bottom or sides, get a second wash mitt and use one for the top panels, the other for the rest.

6. Don't use circular motions: for the hood, roof and trunk use front to back strokes and for the sides use Up-down strokes. This doesn't eliminate swirls, but it reduces them visually in most light.

JM1FE

uh huh.

That's why I cannot own a black car. I'd go nuts over swirls. I've seen black Benz's absolutely destroyed with swirl marks - one looked like it had been polished with steel wool.

The clearcoat on the rx-8's black does NOT make it immune to swirls. It just makes the paint less glossy and harder to 'work' compared to a good single-stage paint. Careful how much you compound it when trying to get rid of the swirls that you don't thin down the clearcoat too much.

Cam

iTrader: (1)

Most likely you did not cause the swirl marks, the dealer did when preping the car after delivery. Also, depending on how long your car was on the lot it may have been washed numerous times.

I have a black 8 as well, and do have some minor swirl marks.

For a recommendation, I use quite of a few of Griots Garage products. www.griotsgarage.com


The Speed Shine (on par with Zaino Z6) is great. The car wash is nice, but I think Eagle One is just as good.

Im rambling.. anyway. I keep a bottle of the Fine Hand Polish, which removes the swirl marks on my paint enough so that after a wash and wax (or speed shine) they cant be seen. Its applied like wax, rub on with one towel, buff out with another, or use an orbital.

If you really think there bad step up the the polish #3, although I doubt they could be that bad.

Link to the Fine Hand polish - http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog....L1_1000&Page=2

markd

This topic reminds me of something... Oh yeah--Last week's thread on the exact same thing!

Ah well. I agree with 6speed's advice. I also thought of the sponge being the culprit when I first read your message. The problem with using a sponge is that when it traps dirt, it scrapes it against your paint. If you use a chenille sponge, it traps the dirt, but the dirt gets trapped between the strands of cotton so it is less likely to cause scratching. You might give that a shot for future cleanings. Of course, I don't doubt Art and Cam's sentiments: It may very well have been your dealer's sloppy detailer. I've read a couple of horror stories around here in that same vein.

Another culprit may be, simply, the nature of our paint. I think the consensus on this forum, based on the apparent ease and frequency of getting chips all over our 8's (mine included ), is that our paint is very soft, especially on the front end. Consider applying thinner coats of wax to make it easier to remove.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you're doing just a one-step cleaning (only waxing after wash), but you could try the 3-step process to help minimize the appearance of existing swirls. Sorry if I'm about to insult your intelligence with this, but just to be on the safe side... Both Mother's and Meguiar's offer their respective lines for: paint cleaning/polish/wax. It's always a good idea to prep your paint before you wax.

There are also a number of swirl mark removers on the market, but if you do use an SMR, remember that it's not just a wipe-on/wipe-off method. You have to work it into the paint until it looks like it's gone. Learned that with ScratchX (and I still couldn't get it to work).

Another thing no one has mentioned: you may want to try clay barring. Just because you washed your car doesn't mean you've freed your paint of all its contaminants. Place a ziplock bag on your car and place your hand inside of it. Move your hand across the inside part of the ziplock that is on your car, and if it doesn't feel smooth to the touch, then you've still got dirt on your paint... and that could be causing all the scratching. My brother's black Mazda6 had a lot of tree sap on it that didn't come off from numerous washings, and now he has a lot of scratch marks. If you find that to be the case, invest in a clay bar system and get those damaging contaminants off. It won't remove current scratches, but it'll certainly prevent future ones.

Just as an aside, if you're looking for an easy, non-mail order, non-professional, possible solution, give Meg's NXT Tech wax a try. It removed a lot of the swirls that I mentioned were on my brother's 6.

Also, check out Autopia (http://www.autopia.org ). It's one of the most invaluable sites I've ever visited. They have a tutorial on http://www.bettercarcare.com that is directly related to this subject.

By the way, Mother's isn't a bad product. I've never used it myself, but it's a direct competitor of Meguiar's, and I've read postings from a number of people here and on Autopia who use their carnauba wax and Back2Black. Good luck, and welcome to the club.

SLiM8

Make sure that the towels you use are 100% cotton. Also, foam pads are more safe than cotton when applying wax. Meguiars has foam pads that can be bought on any auto stores. A foam pad and microfiber is the best way to avoid swirls. Also, make sure your using someting as soft as sheepskin wash mitts. Proper procedure of washing will help a lot to reduce swirls in your paint. Go to http://autopia.org to learn more about proper washing techniques and how to remove swirls and scratches from the paint by polishing.

grkachilles9

My car is about 3 weeks old and i also have swirl marks and have yet to wax it. just washed it. None of these posts seem to give a direct answer on what to use. Any suggestions on what product to buy?????

JM1FE

People have different brands that they're loyal to. I like Meguiars. So... here's a link to some Meguiars-centric swirl-removing info.

Also, here's the best info I can pass along. I'm not going to give any more direct of an answer because I don't want anyone to bork up their paint and blame it on me. If you're not experienced, you shouldn't be learning/practicing on an RX-8.

----------------------
From bmw-digest.v4.n430Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 04:53:08 -0400
Subject: Detailing Part II (polishing/waxing)
Status: RO

What many paople refer to as waxing is not always waxing. The following are
categories of products used to restore and increase the shine of your
paintwork(most abrasive to least abraisive):

Deciding which products your car needs:
If your paint is new or like new you will probably just need a fine
polish/sealer/glaze (like Meguiar’s #7 Show Car Glaze, or their #? New Car
Glaze, Zymol HD cleanse ) and a good coat of wax ( Meguiar’s
Medallion, Meguiar’s #26, Zymol or your favorite quality wax).

If your paint is several years old and has oxidation you will need to use a
cleaner/polish before doing the above. The key here is to ALWAYS START WITH
THE LEAST ABRASIVE and only get more abraisive if that doesn’t work after a
couple of applications. (Meguiar’s has a wide array of cleaners and polishes
in varying degrees of abrasiveness as well as some products to deal with
specific problems like swirl marks. Zymol and many others also have
polishes). If you are not sure which product you need you could try Meguiar’s
Medallion Paint Cleaner which is a general purpose consumer product that is
pretty safe.

If your paint is beyound the above see an expert.

Always polish/wax in a shady and relatively dust free area. Before starting
mask off all black trim to avoid getting ugly white residue on it.

APPLYING CLEANERS AND POLISHES
Always work on a small area at a time (half the hood, half the trunk, a door
etc.). These can be applied with a soft foam pad, or a very soft 100% cotton
towel. The foam applicator pads are preferable because the lessen the chance
of swirl marks. Some less abrasive products can even be applied with your
bear hand if your skin is soft enough. Work in a back and forth motion ( not
circular ) to avoid swirl marks. Do not allow the product to dry on as it can
then become more abraisive. Immediately buff off the cleaner/polish with a
very soft 100% cotton towel. The paint should feel smooth but not necesarily
slick. Immediately follow with sealer/glaze and/or wax.

GLAZING/SEALING: Apply in the same way as polishes and cleaners but you
should use less pressure. Do not allow it to dry. Buff to a high luster while
semi wet. Note if the sealer/glaze feels like its sticking in spots and is
very hard to remove then you are either: useing too much, allowing to dry to
long or you need to go back and polish/clean the paint some more. Again the
paint should feel smooth but not necesarily slick. If you still see light
swirl marks apply more sealer/glaze. Immediately follow with wax or the
sealer/glaze will disappear.

WAXING: Wax can be applied with a foam pad, terry cloth towel (or your hand
if the prduct is a natural carnuba). Again do not apply in circles. With most
waxes it does not matter weather you apply it in small areas at one time or
the whole car at once but I prefer to establish a pattern of always dividing
the car into the same areas for polishing and waxing. Allow the wax too dry
and buff with a terry cloth towel.

TOWELS: Always use 100% cotton terry cloth towels with no synthetics.
Synthetic fibers can scratch and cause swirl marks. Wash your towels twice
every time; first with a liquid soap and second with no soap. Seperate your
towels for specific puposes drying, cleaning, polishing, waxing. If you buy
new towels wash them many times until they until they become soft and all the
chemicals added to them to make the pile stand up are removed.

NOTE: If at any time during the polishing/waxing process you should drop your
applicator pad or towels DO NOT continue to use them as any dirt , sand or
contaminents can damage the finish.

GOOD REFERENCE MATERIALS:UPKEEP: Meguair’s makes a product that no one should go without. (I swear by it) Its called Final Inspection or Quik Detailer. I always keep a towel and bottle of it in the trunk should a bird or some water get the car. It’s also great for dipping Q-tips in when preparing for concours but thats another topic.

Note: I have no ties to any of the products or companies mentioned above.

Pkskull77

I can't order Zaino products over the web, so I sent them an email. Does anyone know what the deal is?

grkachilles9

thanks for the tips....they will be very helpful.....

markd

Just out of curiosity, what part of this thread DID you read?

tlniec

I noticed very fine swirls within a few weeks of buying my black RX-8, too. Fortunately, a good waxing with Meguiar's Gold Class paste wax took care of them.
Things to remember:
As has been said above, use a sheepskin or microfiber wash mitt (or two, one for wheels and lower areas of car, one for the rest), with good car soap (I like Meguiar's). Do a thorough rinse before soaping. When soaping, I saturate the mitt, then squeeze some soapy water onto the car. Only after that does the mitt touch the car. Also, avoid using any pressure when soaping the car, just let the mitt glide over the surface without pressing down.
Lather, rinse repeat. After the final rinse, I like to dry with microfiber towels. Again, I keep a separate one for the wheels/low sections of car and one for the rest. I don't really wipe the car with the towels, I sort of 'dab' at the wet areas.
That should go a long way toward helping prevent swirls. And (at least for me) a good waxing was enough to remove existing swirls. Being proactive early helps.

MDRX8

try http://www.topoftheline.com/tolae/me...-car-care.html Men. makes some good polishes that will REMOVE not hide swirl marks..........LOL

tlniec

Removal is good. Hiding will have to suffice until I get a chance to give her a good polishing.

grapes

I have a black Mercedes also, what a nightmare. Clay bar, Klasse polish orbital buffer-still get swirls. I love my yellow RX-8, never shows anything!!