What pads to use for Track Day?
 

What brake pads would you guys suggest for track days (only)? I'm doing my first driver's school with the RX-8 next month at Watkins Glen. I'll be using these pads only for the track. I used the Hawk HP+ pads on my 325is last year and they were fine. I'd go with them again, but they aren't carried for both the front and rear for our cars.

What are you using?

Thanks!

Rears are stock, I have Hawk HP+ on the fronts, but a lot of people have stated that they think the stock pads are fine. I just like this setup better.

Been to the Glen on stock pads and they were fine. After a few track days you might feel more confident and go for the “track day only pads” or you might just do the swap to extend the life of the OEM’s but the 8 has very good brakes and they will not slow you down at the Glen. There are also many turns that need very little brakes do to elevation changes so I find the glen to not be too hard on the brakes. Also as a bit of advice the Glen is a big track get very familiar with the layout, go on rides with other drivers, my school in fact had a driver walk of the track that helped a lot.

I've been around the track a lot and did a DE at WGI last year. I think I'll go with the Hawk HP+ on just the front, I guess, unless you guys can recommend a pad upgrade that will replace front AND rear pads. Depending on how cheap I'm feeling next month, I might just keep my stock pads on and then have the dealer replace them under the "squealing" problem, which they've been having anyway. I just have to hope the squealing doesn't go away =P

http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/

Great stopping power and good wear on your rotors.

This topic pops up very often on the Honda forum (OhioHondas.com) I'm on.

Two routes:
My route: Cobalt GT Brake pads. I love the difference in stopping power they've made on my Integra GS-R I rarely have to downshift and engine brake to slow down anywhere.
Plus the Cobalts are rotor friendly and won't wear down your rotors as much as other pads.

Option #2: If you plan on really abusing your brakes through HPDE and other frequent track events you may want to consider the more popular Hawk HP+ pads. But they are more abrasive to your rotors than the Cobalts.
If you already stock up on $20 AutoZone special rotors and replace them frequently then the Hawks may do better for you.

Having no garage and not doing alot of track events you can see how I'd be more biased torwards the first option.

GL!

I've had good luck so far with Carbotech XP-9 up front, with OEM rear pads. Excellent bite and no fade so far at Autobahn Country Club and Grattan Raceway.

MazdaSpeed makes a higher temperature tollerant street/track pad for the Rx8. Pricy, but IME they worked very well. When the pads came out to do a big brake kit on the front of the car, they showed even wear between both front & rear pads. I was suprised by this. I assumed the fronts would have shown a lot more wear than the rear pads. Lapping was pretty evenly diviided between running with DSC both on, & off. My assumption is, that with the DSC on, the rear pads see a lot more action which might partly explain, along with how well balance the car is to begin with, the degree to which pad wear was so evenly distributed.

Hey former1.8t you should come to Road America with me later this summer. I tried to get people to come, but no response from the first time around.

http://roadamerica.fbody.us/

If you are really pushing the car, than none of the pads suggested are right. You will need to go to a real race pad. I have tried Hawk Blues and they really aren't rotor friendly - expecially if you drive to track on them. Recently tried Hawk HS14's on front and 10's on back. Also now have stoptech 4 piston setup on front. Blues had much more bite. Going to try this weekend at Sebring Colbalt VR's on front. This is what they suggested for those who really push. They also suggested VX compound for rears, but do not have template ready yet. Will keep the Hawk 10's on.

Hope this helps.

Jay Goldfarb
Instructor with: NASA, BMW CCA & PBOC

Let us know how the Sebring's work out for ya, I'm always looking for something to help improve my car and myself :)

Give me some idea of what you have done to the car already. Any handling changes will give greater speeds that will than need better brakes. Stock calipers work fine, but will give uneven wear inside and outside due to one piston. I went to 4 piston calipers. I also use slotted rotors front and back. I will keep you posted on how I feel about the Colbalt VR pads.

Jay

I have RB front/rear sway bars, JIC front shock tower brace, SS clutch and brake lines, I'm running StopTech slotted rotors front and rear with stock calipers and Hawk HP+ pads on track days

I just did my first track day at New Hampshire International on the stock brakes and brake fluid. The stock pads are awesome. I would worry more about brake fluid. Change to DOT4 fluid and bleed your brakes before and after the event.

That all being said I just ordered a new set of rotors from www.adrenelineracing.com and RPS pads from Porterfield Brakes. I had Porterfields on my 2000 Celica GT-S and they are absolutely unbelievable. The brakes were $149 for the front.

BlueRenesis, how do you like the slotted rotors? I've heard bad things about those for track days. One person at the track said he got much increased brake fade because the slots were retaining pad material.

No problem here with Rotara slots.

sorry, don't mean to hijack thread, but i have a simular question i guess. i just bought some EBC Red Stuff. anyone know if those pads can be used safely on street driving? i know some racing pads require warming up before they bite, is this pad one of those?

How many days are you guys getting out of your pads?

I'm a novice and have done 2 days at the track, 6 autocrosses and 5000 miles driving and my OEMs are half gone.

I'll be changing the pads before my next event in 2 weeks and use my half gone pads to drive home from the event if necessary.

Is there a cheap replacement to OEM pads and rotors (i.e. Autozone special) or is there a more economical track pad that I can get more than 2-3 track days from?

I'm learning to change my pads next weekend so if it is easy, I might go to track only pads in the future.

mike,

If you run racing pads on the street...the big thing to remember is that everyone else stops slower then you do.

Running XP9's on the street usually results in me stopping later then other cars...always good to keep an eye on that rearview mirror and make sure you aren't putting yourself in a situation resulting in bodywork!

I got replacement front rotors for $75 a piece from www.adrenalineracing.com. The rears are $50.

How is the track life on those pads RP?

Wgi Update!!!
 

I went to the DE at Watkins Glen with the GVC BMW CCA and had a great time. NO ONE had the HP+ pads in stock for the front, so I went with stock pads (7000 street miles) and fresh Super Blue fluid. This was only my 2nd DE, but they placed me in the Advanced group. It ended up being appropriate, as I was only passed once the entire weekend (by an Integra GS-R race car ), yet was passing M5s and every generation of M3. I was signed off to run solo on the second day.

I would have appreciated the greater bite of the Hawks and I ended up running the rear pads down to the metal. The dealer replaced my fronts, which were also just about gone, with the new pad under the TSB, but I didn't realize that the TSB only applied to the fronts. I put Hawk HPS pads on the rear for now. The new front pads suck, btw. They don't dust quite as much, but they have lower bite and increased fade.

Anyway, the school was a lot of fun and the car did well, save for the engine cutting out a bit at the end of 2 sessions. I had experienced this on the street a couple weeks before the DE and took the car in. There was no fault code in the computer, but they updated to the N flash and the hotter spark plugs. The car felt smoother and a tad more powerful. I've had the car back in and they don't know why the engine cuts out. It did it again today. It occurs at high rpm and high speed in the upper gears. It cuts out, then comes back on. I was low on gas, but not out, and I was going in a straight line, so it wasn't sloshing. Any ideas?

So, at the DE, I got into one little incident at about 80-85 mph with a Lotus Esprit TT-V8. You can see it on video here:

www.scottbarton.net/anthony/theglen/videos

Please "right-click" and download!!

Enjoy, and feel free to comment here or via email.
Thanks! :)

When the engine was cutting out would it only let you rev up to around 6k? If so I had the same problem at RA when I whacked the rev limited pretty hard.

Yeah, you did get a little out of shape at the end. I was surprised that the Lotus didn't just walk away from you. Those cars are mothaf*ckin fast

If you were down to about a quarter of a tank than it was your fuel cutting out. This happenned to me at the end of both days at Road America.

It would cut out on straightaways, usually when I was over 100 mph or so. Just keep 1/2 tank in your car at all times and you should be fine.

Is that a baffling problem with the tank, or a pickup issue? The 3.0 V6 duratecs have issues with the same type of problem, but it usually occurs because the filter sock on the fuel pump has become clogged.

Theres a little disc at the bottom of the filter thats too blame, as it gets clogged WAY too easily. Removing the little disc seems to solve the problem. (The car has 3 fuel filters, so its not as if the fuel isn't being properly filted with it missing)

http://www.contour.org/mods/howto/im...w_vs_50000.jpg

http://www.contour.org/mods/mods.php...o&displayid=39

If you watch the straights when he gets on it, he does just walk away. I was just driving harder the whole way around.

MMM, Lotus. So tasty.

Fine point, but the black and the silver car get away from him and you a bit quicker. What were they?

The black car was my buddy's '93 MR-2 Turbo. Modded and VERY fast (300+hp). The silver car was the Integra GS-R race car, which was the only car that passed me that weekend. When my buddy and I had open track to ourselves, he would be faster in the straights but I would be braking later and faster through the turns. He eventually did let me by, although he was being nice. We were a very close match.

Thats pretty good for a non race prepped car vs a race prepped car. Well Done!

I'm using Axxis Ultimates on new rotors this summer. The wear on the rotors seems better than stock, they dust almost as much as stock and have have very good cold grip.....oh yeah, they are absolutely quite. So far.

Any track time on those pads at all?

I was swapping out my pads for my next track day and I had a part left over.

Can any of you guys that swap out your pads a lot tell me what the leftover clip is used for?

Thread is here:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/leftover-clip-brake-pad-diy-64372/

It's a anti seal brake shim.

Can't get from Mazda though.

Okay thanks.
Glad that it is not critical and won't create issues on the track. \

Interestingly, when I removed my OEM pads there was a lot more pad left than I thought. I've done 2 track days and 5K miles and there was still about 2/3 pad material left. I changed them anyway and will use the old pads to get home from the track someday if I eat through the new pads in one weekend.

I noticed the same thing on my stockers when I replaced them with the Hawk's. Surprisingly a lot of pad left with the aggressive braking that I do on a regular basis.

SR Motorsports offers a complete pad kit for the 8. Anybody know what brand these are or does SR make them in house?

http://www.srmotorsports.com/RX8_Per...kes_Parts.html (scroll down)

I havent seen those before, but unless you're turning your car into a track machine, I doubt that those would be necessary. I think just pads and fluid are quite enought for doing HPDE and other autocrossing stuff

I would buy brake pads from a brake firm. If the can't advertise who makes them, then don't buy them.

My pads had about 7-8000 miles of general street usage before the DE. I ran the rears down to the metal and the fronts were just about gone. I don't really take it easy on the track. If I'm not pushing the limits, I don't feel that I'm learning as much as I could.

I just returned from Cal Speedway (infield track) and ran both days back to back in ~80 degree ambient conditions - the braking of this car is phenomenal! With an entirely stock braking system I had no fade at all and had a consistent pedal feel throughout the entire weekend.

PowerStop Brake Pads?
 

Just found out from them the pads a brand called "PowerStop", anybody have any experience with them?

I ran at Gingerman last weekend in 95 degree heat and track temp of about 135 degrees.
OEM brake were good with no fade (I have DOT4 fluid). Pedal now had more play in it so I think I really ground done the pads. I'll check over the weekend.

I'm running ATE SuperBlue fluid and Porterfield R4-S pads. The stock pads are awesome, especially with that initial bite. Problem is they just eat rotors like crazy.

Carbotech XP8s, in the front only with OEM in back, are working quite well on one of our cars with a couple track days on it. For those running the OEM brakes on track, you may not be getting any fade your first few times out, but you will eventually. The better you get, the later you brake and the harder you are on them, and the stock pads will eventually prove inadequate.

The RX8 does have very good stock pads, and wholly adequate brakes overall. Kudos to Mazda for designing such a good system from the factory. But like most OEM parts, there is room for improvement.

For those not familiar with Carbotech, their line consists of the following:

Bobcats: One of the best street pads available. Quiet, low dust, and very high coefficient of friction. Good for up to 900 degrees or so. Can be used for very short track sessions on street tires, but it is not intended to be a track pad.

Panther Plus: Entry level track pad, good from 150-1250 degrees. Are a little squeaky to run around on the street all the time, but they work fine cold and are impressive once in the upper temp ranges.

Panther XP8: Great mid-level track pad that's still drivable on the street (to and from the track is the idea, but I've used them for weeks at a time with no issues). Good from 250-1350 degrees. This is what we use on track in the DPE cars, usually with Bobcats in the rear once the OEM rear pads wear out. And we use Bobcats all around on the street.

The Panther line goes up to XP9 and XP10, but those would only be necessary for competition level track time on R-compound tires etc. And we've found that it usually isn't necessary to put track pads in the rear if you have them in front, as the more aggressive front pads will bias the system forward a bit anyway and the fronts are already doing more of the work. On soemthing like a non-Brembo 350Z with horridly undersized brakes we'd do track pads all the way around for any track day, but this hasn't been necessary on the RX-8 thus far. We'll see how it goes when the turbo goes on one of them late next month; might have to rethink our selections then :).

All Carbotech pads are carbon-ceramic based, which is the best thing going right now in pad material. Very non-corrosive on those expensive wheels, minimal rotor wear when operating in their temp range, very high friction coefficients for an excellent 'bite', and minimal dust for the given class of pad.

If you want some unbiased info on Carbotech, head over to www.i-club.com or www.nasioc.com and do a search on Carbotech. The Subaru folks love these pads, and as a Subaru owner I have to agree with them :).

And of course all compounds are available for the RX-8, both front and rear.

Sorry if that's too much of a sales pitch, but we really do believe in these pads. And not only that, we actually use them! :)

How much is a set of these pads for the fronts for an RX-8?

Do you sell them?


A friend of mine with a BMW 325is uses the Carbotech XP8s on his car. He's been pretty happy with them so I thought I might think about giving them a shot.

They are $158 for a set of front XP8s, and yes we do sell them. And in fact we have two sets in stock. Feel free to place an order through the site, or give us a call and we can talk about it more if you have questions (913.441.4144).

http://www.dpeweb.com/ProductDetails...9&vehicleID=58

Regards,

Phil
Driven Performance Equipment
www.dpeweb.com

i boughty the whole brake upgrade kit with the slotted rotors. we only put on the fronts for now and sr is sending rears next week. the pads were hawks but im not sure which ones. someone said the HPS pads from hawk are bad and i wonder if thats what they were since i do not feel like i have front brakes at all! it may be mechanic error or glazed pads. i will find out on monday.
the rotors are nice and look like good quality, but the proof is in the stop.

Well, there are a couple of things that could be in play there. Keep in mind the operating temperature of pads has a big effect on cold stopping. If the pads that come with that kit are aggressive high-temp pads designed for optimal performance at the track, they will need heat in them to be effective (meaning low bite when cold). Not all pads are created equal, and some high-temp pads can also have a wide enough temperature range to also be usable on the street, but more often than not, an aggressive track-oriented pad will take a couple of stops to heat up and start biting.

Also, given that you have brand new rotors, you would be well-served to lay down some pad material on those rotors for optimal performance. I would recommend you bed your rotors and pads to see if having a good layer of pad material on the rotors helps.

Good luck.

- Craig

Agreed, stopped yesterday there was a very noticable difference at the track between my pads cold and after they got some head into em. Caught me a little off guard the first time.