Turbo'd 8 vs. Supercharger 8
10-19-2009, 12:25 AM
#51
Row faster, I hear banjos
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cool 
Be aware that with the current blower being used, you wont get near 400 wheel without some serious charge cooling(ie injection) hell, you'll be spraying something to do that with any of the TC 'm thinking of too, but not necessarily as a matter of necesity - now that i think of it, I can't remember if you said that was a target, or if it was just an arbitrary #
also, exhaust ports are whats limiting the motor in terms of flow capacity right now, and unfortunately they cant get any larger. you can reshape them to a degree and yes technically increase their size, but only on the miniscule of scales.
Be aware that with the current blower being used, you wont get near 400 wheel without some serious charge cooling(ie injection) hell, you'll be spraying something to do that with any of the TC 'm thinking of too, but not necessarily as a matter of necesity - now that i think of it, I can't remember if you said that was a target, or if it was just an arbitrary #also, exhaust ports are whats limiting the motor in terms of flow capacity right now, and unfortunately they cant get any larger. you can reshape them to a degree and yes technically increase their size, but only on the miniscule of scales.
IIRC, Juan (marsreder100) got 330whp and 214 wtq at 9.6psi of boost on his Pettit s/c kit. He's currently hitting 2-3 psi higher, so it'll be interesting to see what his new numbers will be whenever he gets around to re-dyno'ing the car.
Edit, here's his dyno plot:
10-19-2009, 08:21 AM
#52
whines all the way home
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Actually I believe those dynos were achieved at 11.6psi, our pulley is limited to 13psi so thats the difference in boost,,, in addition he has a very long list of supporting mods, ie upgrade ignition, W/M, headers, etc etc etc...
10-19-2009, 08:46 AM
#53
Row faster, I hear banjos
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Well guys and girls I took the car this morning for a dyno test after my last mods. Everything looked promising to brake the 400 whp but to my and Bastage disappointment my car was only able to achieve 327 whp on the first pull and 330 whp on the second. I think all the time spent researching and mods trials did not come to fruition. I’m contemplating listing the car on eBay…NOT! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk99SuPrCp8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtINFMTOUdY
9.6 psi on 3rd gear dyno.
11.3 psi on 4th gear on the highway.
12 psi on 5th gear on the highway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtINFMTOUdY
9.6 psi on 3rd gear dyno.
11.3 psi on 4th gear on the highway.
12 psi on 5th gear on the highway.
10-19-2009, 09:09 AM
#55
Life begins @ 30 psi
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Juan does have the nicest dyno plots I've seen with a S/C on this car though, decent torque, and great power. Hell, he has as much torque as my gimp dyno runs. Granted I was dynoed with a faulty MAF and only 8.5 psi, but still impressive for a S/C and the curve is sick. I would love to take a ride in that car.
10-19-2009, 09:22 AM
#56
our s.c's are also loving this cool weather! 40F on the way to work this a.m. and I am almost at the 1K break in on my new engine--oil was at 160F and I said to myself---"WTF--lets do this" Everyone prob knows I have never dyno'ed but I have driven a lot and I KNOW I am over 300hp (at least this morning i was) I can tell you that---3nd and 4 th gears were amazing--didnt even try 1st and 2nd.
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD
10-19-2009, 09:40 AM
#57
Row faster, I hear banjos
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However, even if he's able to make a 400+whp dyno pull, I'd then need to know what peak boost can be reached in 2nd gear -- as that's the gear I'd use 95% of the time in autocross.
Juan does have the nicest dyno plots I've seen with a S/C on this car though, decent torque, and great power. Hell, he has as much torque as my gimp dyno runs. Granted I was dynoed with a faulty MAF and only 8.5 psi, but still impressive for a S/C and the curve is sick. I would love to take a ride in that car.
While his mod list is relatively long, all of his mods are legal for the Street Mod class. Some might be necessary, others might not. The main thing I'm told about why he makes the numbers that he does (over Bastage's car for instance) is due to his upgraded headers.
10-19-2009, 10:26 AM
#58
whines all the way home
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No worries. That thread is almost 300 pages long and the details are easy to forget. I've just been following it closely for personal reasons. If he's able to get to 12psi on the dyno, he should see ~410whp/260wtq (both numbers are eerily close to the whp and wtq numbers for a well-tuned motorsports version of a n/a 20B).
10-19-2009, 11:03 AM
#59
NO A/C :(
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Most people don't know even a single person with a FI RX-8, let alone multiple types of forced induction in their area, so there aren't a lot of people with experience with them both. Rotr8 and I live in the same area and go to a lot of the same meets though, so if anybody is in the MD/Tri-state area you are more than welcome to go for a ride in my car. It would be even better if Jeff would ever finish tuning it...
, Uh, I'm usually in Columbia if I'm going to DICK'S SPORTING GOODS.
10-19-2009, 12:56 PM
#61
Mahhhhaaaaammmaaaahh --I am a madman--probably been inhaling all that polyurethane and microscopic aluminum dust too long and I have a mixture of hallucinogentic delirium/ and alzheimers. I do have interesting conversation with my jack Russells though. Here kitty kitty kitty. What? Huh?
Damn have to get back to work--cant even enjoy your psychosis anymore without someone butting in.
OD
Damn have to get back to work--cant even enjoy your psychosis anymore without someone butting in.
OD
10-19-2009, 07:09 PM
#62
our s.c's are also loving this cool weather! 40F on the way to work this a.m. and I am almost at the 1K break in on my new engine--oil was at 160F and I said to myself---"WTF--lets do this" Everyone prob knows I have never dyno'ed but I have driven a lot and I KNOW I am over 300hp (at least this morning i was) I can tell you that---3nd and 4 th gears were amazing--didnt even try 1st and 2nd.
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD
10-19-2009, 10:05 PM
#63
Actually yes
And incorrect, I have been out to a few of the MSCC autocrosses that Juan participates in and we always seem to be opposing schedules.
Just recently I went to Gainsville invited Juan and he was unavailable with his car.
No biggie, there will be a another day.
And I will be at Roebling Road in Nov and unfortunately Olddragger will be in attendance but will not be running his car because it is not 100% broken in.
Oh well maybe another S/C will step up to plate.
Here is a vid way back at an MSCC event Juan was not in attendance unfortunately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvB9lTKnJVc
This was done on completely stock suspension so the car was a bit sloppy.
Now being dialed in suspension wise we as a team are actually going to be competting on a national level in SCCA but that is still up in the air.
And our skill set as Drivers needs more seat time with the new setup. The car drives like it is on rails with the GTSPEC bracing that it has now so it is taking some getting used to.
Also to recap a car doesn't mean **** on the AutoX either BT or SC, the driver makes the car perform not the car making the driver perform.
Just recently I went to Gainsville invited Juan and he was unavailable with his car.
No biggie, there will be a another day.
And I will be at Roebling Road in Nov and unfortunately Olddragger will be in attendance but will not be running his car because it is not 100% broken in.
Oh well maybe another S/C will step up to plate.
Here is a vid way back at an MSCC event Juan was not in attendance unfortunately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvB9lTKnJVc
This was done on completely stock suspension so the car was a bit sloppy.
Now being dialed in suspension wise we as a team are actually going to be competting on a national level in SCCA but that is still up in the air.
And our skill set as Drivers needs more seat time with the new setup. The car drives like it is on rails with the GTSPEC bracing that it has now so it is taking some getting used to.
Also to recap a car doesn't mean **** on the AutoX either BT or SC, the driver makes the car perform not the car making the driver perform.
10-19-2009, 10:11 PM
#65
How many of you guys have driven both?
How about several examples of both?
How about several examples of both in an "unrestricted" environment?
I didn't think so.
Everything I have read so far about "linear" - here AND elsewhere - is completely wrong. Everything. Pro and con.
No one here knows what the hell they are talking about. Plain and simple.
Same goes for "turbo lag", which, so far, no one has even defined correctly.
Boost onset is NOT turbo lag.
Flame away. I don't care.
How about several examples of both?
How about several examples of both in an "unrestricted" environment?
I didn't think so.
Everything I have read so far about "linear" - here AND elsewhere - is completely wrong. Everything. Pro and con.
No one here knows what the hell they are talking about. Plain and simple.
Same goes for "turbo lag", which, so far, no one has even defined correctly.
Boost onset is NOT turbo lag.
Flame away. I don't care.
10-19-2009, 10:13 PM
#66
our s.c's are also loving this cool weather! 40F on the way to work this a.m. and I am almost at the 1K break in on my new engine--oil was at 160F and I said to myself---"WTF--lets do this" Everyone prob knows I have never dyno'ed but I have driven a lot and I KNOW I am over 300hp (at least this morning i was) I can tell you that---3nd and 4 th gears were amazing--didnt even try 1st and 2nd.
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD
Guys --one thing that hasnt been talked about is that once you get over 300hp with this chassis--you have some chassis work to do! And I am not talking about just installing coilovers/bars. It will drive ok if you do just those things but to really get it down, a diff brace and motor mounts need addressing at minimum.
OD
I finally can say I am content with the car, When I am up in Savannah in Nov we can go for a drive I will let you drive if you like I can show you what I had to do to nail that front end down. If you look in the videos it was challenging to keep it where you want it to go.
10-19-2009, 10:16 PM
#67
How many of you guys have driven both?
How about several examples of both?
How about several examples of both in an "unrestricted" environment?
I didn't think so.
Everything I have read so far about "linear" - here AND elsewhere - is completely wrong. Everything. Pro and con.
No one here knows what the hell they are talking about. Plain and simple.
Same goes for "turbo lag", which, so far, no one has even defined correctly.
Boost onset is NOT turbo lag.
Flame away. I don't care.
How about several examples of both?
How about several examples of both in an "unrestricted" environment?
I didn't think so.
Everything I have read so far about "linear" - here AND elsewhere - is completely wrong. Everything. Pro and con.
No one here knows what the hell they are talking about. Plain and simple.
Same goes for "turbo lag", which, so far, no one has even defined correctly.
Boost onset is NOT turbo lag.
Flame away. I don't care.
The S/C was refreshing but I had that for a red hot minute before I sold it to Macius8, I still would stick with the BT over the SC.
10-19-2009, 10:19 PM
#69
Cant wait to finally see yall Race Roots--i will be mooning ya at turn 5!!
really has ticked me off that I cant track--it would have been great--no matter who ends up in front. I usually dont care about that. I learn more by trailing anyway.
We have to get side by side pics..
On the engine torque damper---its always better to do motor mounts and then if you need more then think about the Tq damper.
Our mm are crap for the track. Pretty good for the street but could be better.
Would love to drive it with you in the right seat and i will return the favor if you like.
OD
really has ticked me off that I cant track--it would have been great--no matter who ends up in front. I usually dont care about that. I learn more by trailing anyway.
We have to get side by side pics..
On the engine torque damper---its always better to do motor mounts and then if you need more then think about the Tq damper.
Our mm are crap for the track. Pretty good for the street but could be better.
Would love to drive it with you in the right seat and i will return the favor if you like.
OD
Last edited by olddragger; 10-19-2009 at 10:23 PM.
10-19-2009, 10:22 PM
#71
Cant wait to finally see yall Race Roots--i will be mooning ya at turn 5!!
really has ticked me off that I cant track--it would have been great--no matter who ends up in front. I usually dont care about that. I learn more by trailing anyway.
We have to get side by side pics..
On the engine torque damper---its always better to do motor mounts and then if you need more then think about the Tq damper.
Our mm are crap for the track. Pretty good for the street but could be better.
OD
really has ticked me off that I cant track--it would have been great--no matter who ends up in front. I usually dont care about that. I learn more by trailing anyway.
We have to get side by side pics..
On the engine torque damper---its always better to do motor mounts and then if you need more then think about the Tq damper.
Our mm are crap for the track. Pretty good for the street but could be better.
OD
10-19-2009, 10:22 PM
#72
