Turbo'd 8 vs. Supercharger 8
10-17-2009, 11:20 AM
#1
DON'T HATE THE 8
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Turbo'd 8 vs. Supercharger 8
Has the two been up against each other? Time Attack, Track, Auto Cross, Drift and/ or Drag??? I haven't heard or seen anything like that on here. What do you think?
10-17-2009, 11:59 AM
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Row faster, I hear banjos
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In terms of autocross, neither set-up is currently on an RX-8 that's been driven on the national level.
From hanging out in the Pettit Racing sub-forum, I know they're two guys in FL (Bastage and marsredr100) with Pettit Racing s/c systems that have run their cars at more than a dozen autocrosses and made several trips to the drag strip and put more than 20K s/c street miles on their engines with no issues.
FWIW, if I decide to build my car for the Street Mod class in autocross, I'd go with a s/c system for the smoother (and more instant) power delivery.
From hanging out in the Pettit Racing sub-forum, I know they're two guys in FL (Bastage and marsredr100) with Pettit Racing s/c systems that have run their cars at more than a dozen autocrosses and made several trips to the drag strip and put more than 20K s/c street miles on their engines with no issues.
FWIW, if I decide to build my car for the Street Mod class in autocross, I'd go with a s/c system for the smoother (and more instant) power delivery.
Last edited by chiketkd; 10-17-2009 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Correct spelling of screennames...
10-17-2009, 12:25 PM
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to the OP, what you are seeking doesnt exist in a form that wont be argued over till blue in the face
chiketkd: i'm disappointed in you
i wont get into the one/other debate, but i will play devil's advocate to get people to look at things with open eyes and not some old lame stereotypes
so much poor stereotypes here...
what defines smoother? think about this, remove tuning/fueling from the picture since MAF based tuning affects both SC and TC in the same manner... so now potential power delivery resides on air flow. what you're saying is one increases air flow in a smoother manner than the other?
instant power delivery another very poor stereotype... just like you can size a SC for airflow goals, you size a TC as well. grab one like the PR guys are using on their builds and yeah, you arent gonna make **** for power till you get higher in the rpm band. on the opposite end pick one smaller than the greddy... hell even the elusive 3071R(lol) can easily make 12psi at 2800rpms.... (you wanna really learn how SC and TC compare in flow, go figure out what that means... 12psi @2800rpms, take what we know of our motors, and data availible on that TC and you can determine how much air yor flowing there.... and extrapolate down in rpm as far as you like)
chiketkd: i'm disappointed in you
i wont get into the one/other debate, but i will play devil's advocate to get people to look at things with open eyes and not some old lame stereotypes
FWIW, if I decide to build my car for the Street Mod class in autocross, I'd go with a s/c system for the smoother (and more instant) power delivery
what defines smoother? think about this, remove tuning/fueling from the picture since MAF based tuning affects both SC and TC in the same manner... so now potential power delivery resides on air flow. what you're saying is one increases air flow in a smoother manner than the other?
instant power delivery another very poor stereotype... just like you can size a SC for airflow goals, you size a TC as well. grab one like the PR guys are using on their builds and yeah, you arent gonna make **** for power till you get higher in the rpm band. on the opposite end pick one smaller than the greddy... hell even the elusive 3071R(lol) can easily make 12psi at 2800rpms.... (you wanna really learn how SC and TC compare in flow, go figure out what that means... 12psi @2800rpms, take what we know of our motors, and data availible on that TC and you can determine how much air yor flowing there.... and extrapolate down in rpm as far as you like)
10-17-2009, 12:42 PM
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DON'T HATE THE 8
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Dude, Im not hating on Turbo, SC or NA. Im completely nuetral on this. I just wanted to know, along with some other people on this forum, would like to know what FI type would win or actually is better than the other. All this talk about "SC is better than Turbo" or visa versa. PUT IT TO THE TEST AGAINST THE OTHER!!! Then when the fun is over, we can just all have a big group hug because we love our 8s.
10-17-2009, 12:42 PM
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Row faster, I hear banjos
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chiketkd: i'm disappointed in you i wont get into the one/other debate, but i will play devil's advocate to get people to look at things with open eyes and not some old lame stereotypes
so much poor stereotypes here...
what defines smoother? think about this, remove tuning/fueling from the picture since MAF based tuning affects both SC and TC in the same manner... so now potential power delivery resides on air flow. what you're saying is one increases air flow in a smoother manner than the other?
instant power delivery another very poor stereotype... just like you can size a SC for airflow goals, you size a TC as well. grab one like the PR guys are using on their builds and yeah, you arent gonna make **** for power till you get higher in the rpm band. on the opposite end pick one smaller than the greddy... hell even the elusive 3071R(lol) can easily make 12psi at 2800rpms.... (you wanna really learn how SC and TC compare in flow, go figure out what that means... 12psi @2800rpms, take what we know of our motors, and data availible on that TC and you can determine how much air yor flowing there.... and extrapolate down in rpm as far as you like)
i wont get into the one/other debate, but i will play devil's advocate to get people to look at things with open eyes and not some old lame stereotypesso much poor stereotypes here...
what defines smoother? think about this, remove tuning/fueling from the picture since MAF based tuning affects both SC and TC in the same manner... so now potential power delivery resides on air flow. what you're saying is one increases air flow in a smoother manner than the other?
instant power delivery another very poor stereotype... just like you can size a SC for airflow goals, you size a TC as well. grab one like the PR guys are using on their builds and yeah, you arent gonna make **** for power till you get higher in the rpm band. on the opposite end pick one smaller than the greddy... hell even the elusive 3071R(lol) can easily make 12psi at 2800rpms.... (you wanna really learn how SC and TC compare in flow, go figure out what that means... 12psi @2800rpms, take what we know of our motors, and data availible on that TC and you can determine how much air yor flowing there.... and extrapolate down in rpm as far as you like)
I've owned a number of cars with factory turbo (2.5L WRX and 300ZX TT) and supercharger (SVT Lightning) systems. I've also driven many different modified cars with supercharged and turbocharged systems. This has been my experience, but I would love to be proven wrong.
While I haven't driven a s/c'd or turbo'd RX-8, I have driven a single turbo FD which had power that came on early, but the power delivery wasn't exactly smooth. When it came on (around 3,500rpms), the car was a handful. I've always found s/c cars to drive like they were large displacement n/a engines.
P.S. FWIW, I know Bob Tunnell's BMW M3 (that won the street mod class at Nats a few years back) used a supercharger.
Last edited by chiketkd; 10-17-2009 at 12:47 PM.
10-17-2009, 12:47 PM
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I'm only going off of my personal experience with each set-up. Not trying to play into stereotypes...
I've owned a number of cars with factory turbo (2.5L WRX and 300ZX TT) and supercharger (SVT Lightning) systems. I've also driven many different modified cars with supercharged and turbocharged systems. This has been my experience, but I would love to be proven wrong.
While I haven't driven a s/c'd or turbo'd RX-8, I have driven a single turbo FD which had power that came on early, but the power delivery wasn't exactly smooth. When it came on (around 3,500rpms), the car was a handful. I've always found s/c cars to drive like they were large displacement n/a engines.
I've owned a number of cars with factory turbo (2.5L WRX and 300ZX TT) and supercharger (SVT Lightning) systems. I've also driven many different modified cars with supercharged and turbocharged systems. This has been my experience, but I would love to be proven wrong.
While I haven't driven a s/c'd or turbo'd RX-8, I have driven a single turbo FD which had power that came on early, but the power delivery wasn't exactly smooth. When it came on (around 3,500rpms), the car was a handful. I've always found s/c cars to drive like they were large displacement n/a engines.
10-17-2009, 12:59 PM
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yeah, i can totally understand your position, if you've never rode a TC car that power was delivered smooth, you havent drove one that was setup properly for street driving. hell i'm not track guy, but i would go as far as to say you wanted smooth delivery on the track as well... I've only drove/rode one FI car in my life that was done properly(in my mind) and this was a Greddy kit(original snail/modified everything else) of all things. this one was putting down ~285+ and was smooth as silk in delivery and modulation
Last edited by chiketkd; 10-17-2009 at 09:52 PM.
10-17-2009, 03:06 PM
#11
talking about smoothness and transition, i was shocked when ridding my friends mm upgraded car
boost was instant transition was so smooth i didnt even know it had been gonig into boost if it wasnt for the fact i could see the gauge. onky thing i noticed was he was able to go up the hill where i had to down shift
i havent been in a standard greddy turbo, i look foward to mm finnishing mine one day .... one day
boost was instant transition was so smooth i didnt even know it had been gonig into boost if it wasnt for the fact i could see the gauge. onky thing i noticed was he was able to go up the hill where i had to down shift
i havent been in a standard greddy turbo, i look foward to mm finnishing mine one day .... one day
10-17-2009, 03:27 PM
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yeah, that turo is a great size for low mount because it fits and its about the best choice you can make for low end + high end flow. i wouldnt expect to find any Greddy turbo's that exhibit those kinds of characteristics... its extremely rare.
10-17-2009, 03:27 PM
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I drove a SAAB 9-3 Aero (270 hp approximately). Its a V6 with a turbo with very quick spool time. I was so disappointed because it felt like any N/A car. I wanted to feel a bit of a kick, but nope. No kick whatsoever.
My other friends race prepped BMW M3 has more of a kick and that one is N/A (albeit 340 hp). What I am trying to say is that a turbo is not directly equal to brutal power deliver. An M3 is
My other friends race prepped BMW M3 has more of a kick and that one is N/A (albeit 340 hp). What I am trying to say is that a turbo is not directly equal to brutal power deliver. An M3 is
10-17-2009, 10:20 PM
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Most people don't know even a single person with a FI RX-8, let alone multiple types of forced induction in their area, so there aren't a lot of people with experience with them both. Rotr8 and I live in the same area and go to a lot of the same meets though, so if anybody is in the MD/Tri-state area you are more than welcome to go for a ride in my car. It would be even better if Jeff would ever finish tuning it...
10-17-2009, 10:26 PM
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1. Most of the TC people with anything other than a base GReddy setup don't live anywhere near them.
2. Any "shoot out" that depends on lap times, etc depends far more on the driver than the car. The closest thing to "impartial" comparison between the two types of FI would be a single trained driver driving both cars to attempt a best time.
3. Even with the same driver on the same track, the other modifications, tuning and various other changes to the cars affect them as much or more than the form of FI. A car with upgraded brakes and dialed in suspension will perform much better than even a more powerful car without those things.
4. In the end, its all personal preference, and that is going to differ depending on who is behind the wheel. It's not a question that can be answered by a "shoot out" or discussion on the interwebs. Some people prefer the completely linear acceleration of a S/C while other people prefer the torque of the T/C. My thought is, if you are going to be spending the time and money to make an RX-8 forced induction, do whatever makes you happy. I far prefer turbochargers, so I went that route. I haven't regretted it, but I know people who feel the same way about S/Cs.
10-17-2009, 10:30 PM
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The problem with this is many fold...
1. Most of the TC people with anything other than a base GReddy setup don't live anywhere near them.
2. Any "shoot out" that depends on lap times, etc depends far more on the driver than the car. The closest thing to "impartial" comparison between the two types of FI would be a single trained driver driving both cars to attempt a best time.
3. Even with the same driver on the same track, the other modifications, tuning and various other changes to the cars affect them as much or more than the form of FI. A car with upgraded brakes and dialed in suspension will perform much better than even a more powerful car without those things.
4. In the end, its all personal preference, and that is going to differ depending on who is behind the wheel. It's not a question that can be answered by a "shoot out" or discussion on the interwebs. Some people prefer the completely linear acceleration of a S/C while other people prefer the torque of the T/C. My thought is, if you are going to be spending the time and money to make an RX-8 forced induction, do whatever makes you happy. I far prefer turbochargers, so I went that route. I haven't regretted it, but I know people who feel the same way about S/Cs.
1. Most of the TC people with anything other than a base GReddy setup don't live anywhere near them.
2. Any "shoot out" that depends on lap times, etc depends far more on the driver than the car. The closest thing to "impartial" comparison between the two types of FI would be a single trained driver driving both cars to attempt a best time.
3. Even with the same driver on the same track, the other modifications, tuning and various other changes to the cars affect them as much or more than the form of FI. A car with upgraded brakes and dialed in suspension will perform much better than even a more powerful car without those things.
4. In the end, its all personal preference, and that is going to differ depending on who is behind the wheel. It's not a question that can be answered by a "shoot out" or discussion on the interwebs. Some people prefer the completely linear acceleration of a S/C while other people prefer the torque of the T/C. My thought is, if you are going to be spending the time and money to make an RX-8 forced induction, do whatever makes you happy. I far prefer turbochargers, so I went that route. I haven't regretted it, but I know people who feel the same way about S/Cs.
I just told him about a specific situation in FL that happens all the time,,,
Thats all, now is it a super generic request on the OPs part yeah sur it is,,, but hey some people just care about that kinda stuff, so go figure,,,