DRIVINSIDEWAYS

There is going to be a track day at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway in June. The air temp should be between 100-105 and the track temp will probably be 150 or so, maybe more. Is it pointless to attend with street tires? Will they just turn into melted butter and slide everywhere? It is not an option to get race tires by then.

BlueRenesis82

no, they will not turn into melted butter, but you will prob want to play around with the tire pressure and see what works better. You might want to run a little less pressure, as the tire will def. heat up quite a bit quicker

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Race tires would most likely be softer and not beable to handle the heat as well.

BlueRenesis82

plus if this is your first event, you wouldnt want to run R comps anyway

Dark8

And what are you smoking? Most all race tire compounds do not work well until there is heat in them.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

street tires will be fine, just be careful when they get greasy

L8APEX

worry a little about your engine oil and water temps. This past weekend in Savannah, ambient temps between 95-100, the temps got up a little, but not to a point of being overly concerened. Try to stay out from behind cars when you can, such as straight aways, and get the car fresh air when you can. It can reduce the temps by 20 degrees or so.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

better than tires get some serious brake pads dude!
Olddragger

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I've blistered R compound Radial T/A's when I used to road race.

DRIVINSIDEWAYS

If you are referring to brake fade, I changed the fluid already. Why the pads, other that better performance.

DRIVINSIDEWAYS

Also, where would you start you tire pressure at? After a few laps, what temp should I try to keep the tires at? Between 32-38?

BlueRenesis82

most people will change brake pads for something with more bite. Hawk and Carbotech are both forum favorites

Zaku-8

i think pads have temp ranges too, past which they glaze or deposit onto the disc. Right?

Anyway, I've driven at LVMS w/ NASA and Spring Mtn. (which I think was in the summer), and I didn't have any problems with the brakes. Granted, I'm wasn't anywhere near the limit of the car.

What I did notice there and at Buttonwillow was the tires beading or gunking up near the end of the track day. You can feel this since they cause vibrations with each wheel revolution. I couldnt figure it out for the longest time. I still don't know what's the best way to get rid of them at the track, but they did go away with normal highway driving back from the track.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

that's not temp; that's tire PRESSURE

hot tire temp right after a session should be around 36-40 PSI.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

yes brake pads DO have an operating temperature range, outside of this temperature range and the braking power of the pads are greatly reduced.

the 'beading' is the result of hot tires picking up tire gunks that are left by other cars on the track, you can try to peel them off after a session, or they'll just fall off on your way home.

Winfree

Good luck - glad you found some other kids to play with
Please post your results hope you get some good times logged

Jay Goldfarb

Brake pads definately have heat ranges. Race pads can go to 1500+. Look at the Hawk Performance Brake web site. Also look at Colbalt's site. Street pads good to 500 degrees before **** happens.

I use Colbalt VR's or Hawk blues on track heat range from 300 to 1500+. Regular street pads start working at 0 degrees.

Don't worry about tires. If first time on track, you won't go fast enough to worry. If you have previous autocross experience than go to a good street/performance pad for this session and good 600 degree fluid.

Jay Goldfarb

yiksing

Minimize steering angles and good throttle control can help you save your tires.

Jay Goldfarb

Time to get back to basics. First thing to learn before you even go to a HPDE is the "Heel and Toe" braking and shifting technique. You can not be smooth without this. Learn before going. As an instructor it is extremely frustrating to try to teach car control, balance when the student can't brake and shift at the proper time.

AFter 25 years of racing and doing HPDE's, I recently took the Bounderant Advance Road Racing Class and the first thing we did was a Heel and Toe Braking Clinic. They wanted to make sure we all had the technique down pat. That part of the 2 days only lasted 45 minutes, but it shows the importance.

Jay Goldfarb
Instructor with NASA, BMW CCA, PBOC and PCA

yiksing

^^^ Since you are an instructor, do you mind sharing any advanced driving tips that I can practice in a parking lot?

Jay Goldfarb

Yiksing:

There are several things you can practice during your dailing driving.
1. Look past your apex when taking a corner to your track out point (where you want to end up at). On the highway, look past the car in front of you for a pre-warning of a problem.

2. Be smooth on braking and accelaration.

3. Practice heel and toe.

4. The most advance techique and the one that Skippy and Bondurant teach is TRAIL BRAKING. You carry your braking deeper into the corner while you are starting your turn. Less pressure on brake, but still braking. This keeps weight of vehicle towards front and allows rear to rotate. Easy on street, but on track at high speeds like turn 17 or 1 at Sebring it can be real interesting. This can put you right on the edge. Fine line between light and just too much brake can bring the back end around. If this happens, than its back on the throttle to put weight back on rear. DO NOT BRAKE HARDER OR LIFT COMPLETELY OFF GAS. Only makes matters worse.

Jay

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Jay dont forget--if it is high speed trail braking(great skill to learn and a big advantage with this car on other types of cars) and you have stock shocks--it can get REAL squirrely--be careful
Some hints from me on street practice for the track
1- Smooth is fast, practice this everywhere just like Jay says.
2- practice minimal and constant steering input (no sawing of the steering wheel)
3- practice "anticipation" --everywhere.
4- old abandoned mega store parking lots(BIG ones) -- in the rain --turn the dsc/traction control off and use it for a skid pad--DO THIS IN A SAFE MANNER--use common sense here guys.
5- try wearing a helmet in the car--no headroom--have to use a differant driving/seat position--dont let it this take you by surprise 1st time on the track.
6- get a vooDoo shift ****--puts the shifter right where you want it(also shortens the shift a little by shorting the shifter arm lenght)
olddragger

El Kabong

Any tips for pedal setup for heel-and-toe braking?

Seems like the brake pedal is a little high for it, but I'm a total noob, HPDE-wise.

-Kabong

Jay Goldfarb

Pedal is in perfect heel and toe position. Ball of foot on brake and side or heel of foot on gas for a short blip.

L8APEX

actually, this car is well set up for heel n toe. the brake pedal being a little high is good, because when you are hard on the brakes you can still get your heel on the throttle.

I tried the roll your foot technique, and found no control that way. Your best bet is to wear driving shoes, they are much narrower, and will give you a little more room in the footwell. I put the ball of my foot on the right side of the brake pedal, and rotate my ankle and blip the throttle with my heel, I think a lot of 8 owners do it this way. I did not think I would ever learn it, with big feet and a really bad right knee and ankle. But I did. Practice. Sit at a stop light and work on it, once you get the feel down, try it on off ramps from the freeway. Practice is the only thing that makes this slightly unnatural motion start to feel right. Good luck, this skill is extrmely important, to save the gears, and all the expensive bits in the tranny. It will also keep you pointed in the right direction under braking.