Tofu*Monster's Daily/Track build
02-12-2014, 12:04 AM
#26
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for brakes I am one who believes in OEM setup with the right pads, good fluid, lines, and a good set of blank rotors. BBKs are pretty much pointless unless you start running endurance races, or longer stints of some kind. This keeps the cost down and on street tires more than enough performance. My opinion anyway.
Do a lot of your feel that RX8 needs adjustable front and rear sway bars? I have the hotckis front bar and after my testing I feel like I would like to get a little adjustability in the rear. I have the front bar on the softest setting and I seem to still have understeer.
02-12-2014, 12:40 AM
#27
I have the Progress Technology set, I really liked them together and the car rotates nicely. A rear sway bar would definitely help in trying to combat understeer. You can also try stiffening the dampening in the rear, running slightly more tire pressure in the rear or try playing with your alignment. If you're still on normal street tires though I've found that both my Miata and RX-8 understeer but with R-Compound tires the handling is much more neutral and able to be controlled better with throttle input.
Here is just the rear one:
Progress Technologies RX8 REAR AntiSway Bar. for RX8 2004-2011
Also a nice set of adjustable endlinks helps so that you can get rid of any preload that exists in the sway bar when the car is on the ground. Have someone adjust them while you sit in the car for best results. I have these and have no complaints:
Whiteline RX8 Sway Bar Endlinks- Front for RX8
Whiteline RX8 Sway Bar Endlinks- Rear for RX8
Here is just the rear one:
Progress Technologies RX8 REAR AntiSway Bar. for RX8 2004-2011
Also a nice set of adjustable endlinks helps so that you can get rid of any preload that exists in the sway bar when the car is on the ground. Have someone adjust them while you sit in the car for best results. I have these and have no complaints:
Whiteline RX8 Sway Bar Endlinks- Front for RX8
Whiteline RX8 Sway Bar Endlinks- Rear for RX8
02-12-2014, 07:03 AM
#28
Adjustable anything never hurts in my opinion, especially if you understand how it effects the car's handling. That being said, the "softest" setting on adjustable anti-sway bars really only has the effect of a 1-1.5mm change in bar thickness. Don't be afraid to swap in the stock bars as a tuning option as well...
04-29-2014, 10:55 AM
#30
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Been a little while since I posted anything, so just wanted to give an update. not sure if I mentioned I was having a hesitation problem, but I tracked it down to plugs wires. I bought coils too since I have no clue of mileage, so now I have track spares.
Also an opportunity came up to get a rear GT wing, so that should be coming soon. Rear aero is maybe happening sooner than planned, because I haven't really nailed down my front aero plans. I guess having the rear wing on and testing will help make the decision process easier. I'll post photos of the new "track spec" package once I have it installed, super excited to play with aero as it is something I lightly tapped into on my Honda.
Also an opportunity came up to get a rear GT wing, so that should be coming soon. Rear aero is maybe happening sooner than planned, because I haven't really nailed down my front aero plans. I guess having the rear wing on and testing will help make the decision process easier. I'll post photos of the new "track spec" package once I have it installed, super excited to play with aero as it is something I lightly tapped into on my Honda.
05-27-2014, 02:28 PM
#31
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My final video edit of the Bilstein and AEM testing. Super happy with results and will drop even more time once I tune the suspension a little more. Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-QcEeXicZc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-QcEeXicZc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
06-09-2014, 02:32 PM
#34
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks TeamRx8. I posted it from my phone, so I guess the formatting didn't work.
Just installed an Agency Power adjustable rear sway since I wasn't liking the balance of the 8 with the stock bar on there. Hope to autox or track it soon to test it.
Just installed an Agency Power adjustable rear sway since I wasn't liking the balance of the 8 with the stock bar on there. Hope to autox or track it soon to test it.
06-09-2014, 08:40 PM
#35
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been slightly torn as to what to run as far as a rear wing. I have had thoughts of using a modified Mazda Speed wing (using risers, changing angle of attack, and maybe a gurney flap) or a large GT wing. I don't really know how functional the Mazda Speed setup would really be... any insight on function after those modification? The GT wing I have been waiting on is the one below as I know the owners of the company. Any issues that you guys know of with trunk bracing with running something this large? any insight would be great, thanks.
06-09-2014, 09:57 PM
#38
We need a "Thank you" button
06-09-2014, 11:33 PM
#39
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
haha, I thought I might get some crap for possibly running one of those. Looks is obviously not my top priority, but I was basing the choice off of their design. Most of what I do is 100mph or less (AutoX, Streets of Willow, Button Willow, etc.) That has a very steep angle of attack and "3D" wing design which is better for low to mid speed. Would that wing create a ton of drag over 100mph...yes! There is only 2 tracks out here with speeds in the 120+ range.
Does the APR GT300 and wings alike really do anything at auto X and mid speed tracks?
Does the APR GT300 and wings alike really do anything at auto X and mid speed tracks?
06-10-2014, 12:11 AM
#40
haha, I thought I might get some crap for possibly running one of those. Looks is obviously not my top priority, but I was basing the choice off of their design. Most of what I do is 100mph or less (AutoX, Streets of Willow, Button Willow, etc.) That has a very steep angle of attack and "3D" wing design which is better for low to mid speed. Would that wing create a ton of drag over 100mph...yes! There is only 2 tracks out here with speeds in the 120+ range.
Does the APR GT300 and wings alike really do anything at auto X and mid speed tracks?
Does the APR GT300 and wings alike really do anything at auto X and mid speed tracks?
Also angle of attack isn't everything.
Most of their wing mounts put the foil so far above the roofline that it is illegal in some classes at common sanctioning bodies.
And unfortunately you cannot tell what the down force and drag characteristics of a wing are just by looking at it.
Last edited by Arca_ex; 06-10-2014 at 12:15 AM.
06-10-2014, 01:08 AM
#41
Registered
Opinions are like ********... There is so much to be done with the suspension without aero that I feel I'm years away from even thinking about aero, especially at the rear of the car.
One good summer read is Simon McBeath's Competition Car Aerodynamics.
One good summer read is Simon McBeath's Competition Car Aerodynamics.
06-10-2014, 01:33 AM
#42
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you know what the purpose of a 3D foil is?
Also angle of attack isn't everything.
Most of their wing mounts put the foil so far above the roofline that it is illegal in some classes at common sanctioning bodies.
And unfortunately you cannot tell what the down force and drag characteristics of a wing are just by looking at it.
Also angle of attack isn't everything.
Most of their wing mounts put the foil so far above the roofline that it is illegal in some classes at common sanctioning bodies.
And unfortunately you cannot tell what the down force and drag characteristics of a wing are just by looking at it.
agreed, angle of attack is not everything. Although at lower speeds AOA/ sqft does play a larger roll. I am used to seeing a lot of items like this and I am sure most of you know this car.
Honestly, I am worried about the height of it. BCL's kits come in "Manly" and "FD legal". Manly is just massive and ridiculous. FD legal is at roofline for their kits that are made per application. They do not sell one for the RX8 so i don't know where the universal one will sit in comparison to our roofline. I have access to CNC so I could make shorter legs.
You are right, you can't tell by just looking at. I am making general conclusions based on its shape, that is all. At the end of the day there is no data, so really there is no way to know one way or the other. I'll try contacting them. Maybe I can get some more detailed specs of the actual wing deck...??
I have been looking for a middle ground between the auto X rear duck tail spoiler and higher speed GT wings. This was an options I was looking at. Curious to see others views on it, so thank you for the comments
Last edited by Tofu*Monster; 06-10-2014 at 01:38 AM.
06-10-2014, 02:18 AM
#43
Alright good, now that you know how a 3D wing works and what it is intended for, you can see why there are better options for foil design when it is raised up into relatively clean air. The center section becomes less effective, and the outer sections become parachutes. The reason the outer sections have such a radical angle of attack is because it is usually in air that is coming up at an angle from the side of the car.
Yes, pure angle of attack can create downforce like on Mike's AutoX car, and exaggerated aero is good for low speed (AutoX) where most of the driving is under 50MPH, and for super low density air (e.g. Pikes Peak cars). But for a road course car, creating downforce like this is not effective because the penalty for the amount of drag it creates is exponential in relation to the downforce it will create when speed increases. You might as well be driving around with a parachute.
To show that downforce can be produced through intelligent and educated foil design instead of pure angle of attack, you can take my wing from Brooks Motorsport Composites for example. Even with an angle of attack of -1 degree (yes, negative angle of attack), it is still capable of producing in excess of 200lbs of downforce at 120MPH.
I would highly suggest only buying a wing from a company that at least can provide CFD data, or has been race proven.
Another point, you will want a chassis mount that goes through the quarter panels. Don't compromise on this.
I would suggest looking at contacting Kognition about their wing kit for the RX-8 (it's not listed on the site but they can make it.) Try to wait until they announce a sale on their Facebook page and it is not too bad on the wallet for what you get. I went with Brooks Motorsports Composites, because I wanted a very specific mount design in a very specific location, and I liked their foil better, but it is twice the cost.
At the end of the day though, I do agree with Etzilon. There are many more things with the car that can be addressed and sorted out before adding a rear wing. The other negative effect of just slapping a wing on is that the tendency to understeer will increase as speed increases, and could actually hurt lap times if you cannot adjust mechanical grip to compensate (which is difficult because mechanical grip is more of a constant and aero grip is relative to speed and yaw angle). Just some food for thought. My final advice would be to hold off on a wing and spend your money on other things.
Also start taking weight out, best bang for your buck lol.
Yes, pure angle of attack can create downforce like on Mike's AutoX car, and exaggerated aero is good for low speed (AutoX) where most of the driving is under 50MPH, and for super low density air (e.g. Pikes Peak cars). But for a road course car, creating downforce like this is not effective because the penalty for the amount of drag it creates is exponential in relation to the downforce it will create when speed increases. You might as well be driving around with a parachute.
To show that downforce can be produced through intelligent and educated foil design instead of pure angle of attack, you can take my wing from Brooks Motorsport Composites for example. Even with an angle of attack of -1 degree (yes, negative angle of attack), it is still capable of producing in excess of 200lbs of downforce at 120MPH.
I would highly suggest only buying a wing from a company that at least can provide CFD data, or has been race proven.
Another point, you will want a chassis mount that goes through the quarter panels. Don't compromise on this.
I would suggest looking at contacting Kognition about their wing kit for the RX-8 (it's not listed on the site but they can make it.) Try to wait until they announce a sale on their Facebook page and it is not too bad on the wallet for what you get. I went with Brooks Motorsports Composites, because I wanted a very specific mount design in a very specific location, and I liked their foil better, but it is twice the cost.
At the end of the day though, I do agree with Etzilon. There are many more things with the car that can be addressed and sorted out before adding a rear wing. The other negative effect of just slapping a wing on is that the tendency to understeer will increase as speed increases, and could actually hurt lap times if you cannot adjust mechanical grip to compensate (which is difficult because mechanical grip is more of a constant and aero grip is relative to speed and yaw angle). Just some food for thought. My final advice would be to hold off on a wing and spend your money on other things.
Also start taking weight out, best bang for your buck lol.
06-10-2014, 02:02 PM
#45
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alright good, now that you know how a 3D wing works and what it is intended for, you can see why there are better options for foil design when it is raised up into relatively clean air. The center section becomes less effective, and the outer sections become parachutes. The reason the outer sections have such a radical angle of attack is because it is usually in air that is coming up at an angle from the side of the car.
Yes, pure angle of attack can create downforce like on Mike's AutoX car, and exaggerated aero is good for low speed (AutoX) where most of the driving is under 50MPH, and for super low density air (e.g. Pikes Peak cars). But for a road course car, creating downforce like this is not effective because the penalty for the amount of drag it creates is exponential in relation to the downforce it will create when speed increases. You might as well be driving around with a parachute.
To show that downforce can be produced through intelligent and educated foil design instead of pure angle of attack, you can take my wing from Brooks Motorsport Composites for example. Even with an angle of attack of -1 degree (yes, negative angle of attack), it is still capable of producing in excess of 200lbs of downforce at 120MPH.
I would highly suggest only buying a wing from a company that at least can provide CFD data, or has been race proven.
Another point, you will want a chassis mount that goes through the quarter panels. Don't compromise on this.
I would suggest looking at contacting Kognition about their wing kit for the RX-8 (it's not listed on the site but they can make it.) Try to wait until they announce a sale on their Facebook page and it is not too bad on the wallet for what you get. I went with Brooks Motorsports Composites, because I wanted a very specific mount design in a very specific location, and I liked their foil better, but it is twice the cost.
At the end of the day though, I do agree with Etzilon. There are many more things with the car that can be addressed and sorted out before adding a rear wing. The other negative effect of just slapping a wing on is that the tendency to understeer will increase as speed increases, and could actually hurt lap times if you cannot adjust mechanical grip to compensate (which is difficult because mechanical grip is more of a constant and aero grip is relative to speed and yaw angle). Just some food for thought. My final advice would be to hold off on a wing and spend your money on other things.
Also start taking weight out, best bang for your buck lol.
Yes, pure angle of attack can create downforce like on Mike's AutoX car, and exaggerated aero is good for low speed (AutoX) where most of the driving is under 50MPH, and for super low density air (e.g. Pikes Peak cars). But for a road course car, creating downforce like this is not effective because the penalty for the amount of drag it creates is exponential in relation to the downforce it will create when speed increases. You might as well be driving around with a parachute.
To show that downforce can be produced through intelligent and educated foil design instead of pure angle of attack, you can take my wing from Brooks Motorsport Composites for example. Even with an angle of attack of -1 degree (yes, negative angle of attack), it is still capable of producing in excess of 200lbs of downforce at 120MPH.
I would highly suggest only buying a wing from a company that at least can provide CFD data, or has been race proven.
Another point, you will want a chassis mount that goes through the quarter panels. Don't compromise on this.
I would suggest looking at contacting Kognition about their wing kit for the RX-8 (it's not listed on the site but they can make it.) Try to wait until they announce a sale on their Facebook page and it is not too bad on the wallet for what you get. I went with Brooks Motorsports Composites, because I wanted a very specific mount design in a very specific location, and I liked their foil better, but it is twice the cost.
At the end of the day though, I do agree with Etzilon. There are many more things with the car that can be addressed and sorted out before adding a rear wing. The other negative effect of just slapping a wing on is that the tendency to understeer will increase as speed increases, and could actually hurt lap times if you cannot adjust mechanical grip to compensate (which is difficult because mechanical grip is more of a constant and aero grip is relative to speed and yaw angle). Just some food for thought. My final advice would be to hold off on a wing and spend your money on other things.
Also start taking weight out, best bang for your buck lol.
I'll look into those links and companies you posted. I have also asked for more specs from BCL if they exists. Lol. I'll keep you guys posted
06-10-2014, 10:41 PM
#47
Yeah I realized very quickly that compromising on things to have a daily driver and track car all in one was impossible, the best mod you will ever do is buy a super cheap daily. Something with good gas mileage, cheap, reliable, low insurance cost.
90's SOHC Honda or 90's Toyota Corolla etc.
90's SOHC Honda or 90's Toyota Corolla etc.
06-11-2014, 01:17 AM
#49
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah I realized very quickly that compromising on things to have a daily driver and track car all in one was impossible, the best mod you will ever do is buy a super cheap daily. Something with good gas mileage, cheap, reliable, low insurance cost.
90's SOHC Honda or 90's Toyota Corolla etc.
90's SOHC Honda or 90's Toyota Corolla etc.