Sychro Grind - new trans fluid
06-29-2009, 06:16 AM
#27
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I was having the same problem 3rd to 4th redline or even 2nd to 4th at high rpm. Took it to mazda and they replaced my tranny. I had a bent tranny fork. If that helps any
06-29-2009, 01:34 PM
#28
The guys who work at Mazda and have access to all the spares they need and they use Pure Power Lubricants, thats all I needed to know. 
I don't care what's in it, or why/if it is "better"... I know there is a factory team with five RX-8s running this stuff. Easy choice to me.
www.gopurepower.com
I don't care what's in it, or why/if it is "better"... I know there is a factory team with five RX-8s running this stuff. Easy choice to me.
www.gopurepower.com
Last edited by ULLLOSE; 08-25-2009 at 07:23 PM.
06-29-2009, 03:14 PM
#29
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Mine started to grind going into 5th; either up from 4th or down from 6th. I changed the tranny fluid from the factory fill to RP MaxGear 75w90 at around 5,000 miles.
The dealer replaced all of the tranny parts except housing and shaft under warranty. Problem solved. I've read that MaxGear is not good for our transmissions and it seems that Mazda changed the gear oil spec from GL4/GL5 to just GL4 somewhere around 2006.
Note to self; go with GL4 fluid from now on.
The dealer replaced all of the tranny parts except housing and shaft under warranty. Problem solved. I've read that MaxGear is not good for our transmissions and it seems that Mazda changed the gear oil spec from GL4/GL5 to just GL4 somewhere around 2006.
Note to self; go with GL4 fluid from now on.
06-29-2009, 06:55 PM
#30
The guys who work at Mazda and have access to all the spares they need use Pure Power Lubricants, thats all I needed to know.
I don't care what's in it, or why/if it is "better"... I know there is a factory team with five RX-8s running this stuff. Easy choice to me.
www.gopurepower.com
I don't care what's in it, or why/if it is "better"... I know there is a factory team with five RX-8s running this stuff. Easy choice to me.
www.gopurepower.com
I would definitely try this if it was readily available, since I can drop by Summit Racing and get any Redline product I just stick with the 75W140NS
several years back Mazda-M directed me to AWR Racing and they put me in touch with the guy who was rebuilding all their RX-8 racing trans then, he was recommending a Chevron industrial oil, but I can't recall the specific type off the top of my head
06-30-2009, 08:49 AM
#31
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So does anybody know the difference between the requirements for GL4 and GL5? In other words which one, GL4 or GL5, is the more severe rating? After reading this post apparently Mazda changed from GL5 to GL4. Is that moving up or down in service severity. My 07 owners manual specifies GL4 which is what I currently have with the Redline MT-90. According to the Redline website the 75W140NS is a GL5 oil. Does that mean, in the eyes of Mazda, that it EXCEEDS their requirements, or does it mean that it falls short of their requirements? That is, if they specify GL4 does it mean you can use GL4 and GL5 or GL4 only? I would like to try something other than the MT-90, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of options other than standard OEM type gear oil. I'm not expecting miracles, I realize magic oil isn't going to fix worn synchroizers, just looking for the best trade off for daily driver, frequent track day use in hot weather. TeamRX8 recommends the 75W140NS, Rotary God recommends Royal Purple Max-Gear. Just trying to understand the requirements. I'm coming from prior use of transaxles and the oils I'm familiar with, Honda MTF and GM synchromesh apparently don't cut it with the RX8 transmission.
07-01-2009, 09:20 AM
#34
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The without is with the 75w140NS.
I haven't used the MT90, so I won't offer comparisons, but I don't have any issues with the 75W140NS when cold. Like Team said, both oils have the same cold viscosity.
My car also ran flawlessly last weekend at Eagles Canyon in 95+ degree ambient heat on a track that requires about 20 shifts per lap (mostly long straights coupled by 50 mph hairpins) with the 75W140NS. We'll see how long it holds up, but so far the car seems to like this oil better under extreme conditions.
I haven't used the MT90, so I won't offer comparisons, but I don't have any issues with the 75W140NS when cold. Like Team said, both oils have the same cold viscosity.
My car also ran flawlessly last weekend at Eagles Canyon in 95+ degree ambient heat on a track that requires about 20 shifts per lap (mostly long straights coupled by 50 mph hairpins) with the 75W140NS. We'll see how long it holds up, but so far the car seems to like this oil better under extreme conditions.
I hope this is not a stupid question, but why is the 75w90 NS not used vs the 140?
07-01-2009, 09:33 AM
#35
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To begin to answer my own question, a little bit of searching answered a few questions regarding the differences between GL-4 and GL-5 specifications but as usual when dealing with internet debates generated even more questions.
Apparently, in its simplest form, the GL-4 gear oils do not have the extreme pressure (EP) additives that GL-5 gear oils have. GL-5 oils were designed for hypoid gears which require the EP additives. However, and this is where the arguments and debates and snarky comments come from, some of the EP additives can/may damage transmissions that aren't designed for them. EP additives apparently come in various forms, some based on phosphorous, some sulfur, and some chlorine and some of these can/may damgage transmission parts such as yellow metals (brass) or other sensitive components.
I have no idea whether it is appropriate to use GL5 oils in the RX8 transmission. For lack of information I will probably stick with the Redline MT-90 GL-4 until more info comes along.
Apparently, in its simplest form, the GL-4 gear oils do not have the extreme pressure (EP) additives that GL-5 gear oils have. GL-5 oils were designed for hypoid gears which require the EP additives. However, and this is where the arguments and debates and snarky comments come from, some of the EP additives can/may damage transmissions that aren't designed for them. EP additives apparently come in various forms, some based on phosphorous, some sulfur, and some chlorine and some of these can/may damgage transmission parts such as yellow metals (brass) or other sensitive components.
I have no idea whether it is appropriate to use GL5 oils in the RX8 transmission. For lack of information I will probably stick with the Redline MT-90 GL-4 until more info comes along.
07-01-2009, 11:57 AM
#36
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WRT = with respect to.
Use Amsoil MTG and be done with it.
http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=MTGQT-EA
Use Amsoil MTG and be done with it.
http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=MTGQT-EA
07-01-2009, 04:39 PM
#37
after you spin all the the teeth off of several expensive countershafts like I have you may think the extra pressure additives are worthwhile, shifting with a limp wrist is another alternativehttp://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/200...oilbasics.aspx
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 07-01-2009 at 04:48 PM.
08-25-2009, 09:18 AM
#38
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Thread update...
Well, after six weeks and about 2000 miles, I drained the Redline 75W140NS out of my car and went to Redline MT90. I'm not going to make any blanket statements about the 75W140NS, but I will share my personal experiences.
My car is an '04 with ~56k miles. 2nd gear (including the synchro) were replaced under warranty at ~35k miles. The car is used for track days (over 1200 track miles last year), autocross (several seasons of 20+ events per year), and is daily driven 3-4 days per week.
After a couple of weeks and about 1000 miles with the 75W140NS, I developed an issue with the 2nd gear synchro. During normal street driving, once the car was warmed up, the 2nd gear synchro would catch just a bit during heel/toe 3-2 downshifts (like making a 90-degree turn at an intersection). I did not have this issue prior to the 75W140NS, and the problem was only noticeable during relaxed downshifts (full throttle 1-2 upshifts were still fine).
The other issue I had was with radiant heat. I had a chance to make several long distance (150+ mile) drives in the car with the 75W140NS, and I noticed that the center console got substantially hotter with the 75W140NS. How much hotter? I don't know, but it was enough to be noticeable.
Between the two issues, I decided that maybe 75W140NS wasn't the right oil for me. I switched to Redline MT90 two weeks and about 1000 miles ago. So far, the MT90 seems to work much better for my car - no more 2nd gear synchro grinding, and a lot less radiant heat from the transmission tunnel. I've done one 500-mile road trip, an autocross, and plenty of stop-and-go driving since changing to the MT90, and the transmission has performed flawlessly since.
I'll continue to update as I accrue more time (plus some track time) on the MT90. However, at this point I would hesitate to recommend the 75W140NS to anyone. It may work for Mark's application on a dedicated autocross car the, but it did not work for me.
Well, after six weeks and about 2000 miles, I drained the Redline 75W140NS out of my car and went to Redline MT90. I'm not going to make any blanket statements about the 75W140NS, but I will share my personal experiences.
My car is an '04 with ~56k miles. 2nd gear (including the synchro) were replaced under warranty at ~35k miles. The car is used for track days (over 1200 track miles last year), autocross (several seasons of 20+ events per year), and is daily driven 3-4 days per week.
After a couple of weeks and about 1000 miles with the 75W140NS, I developed an issue with the 2nd gear synchro. During normal street driving, once the car was warmed up, the 2nd gear synchro would catch just a bit during heel/toe 3-2 downshifts (like making a 90-degree turn at an intersection). I did not have this issue prior to the 75W140NS, and the problem was only noticeable during relaxed downshifts (full throttle 1-2 upshifts were still fine).
The other issue I had was with radiant heat. I had a chance to make several long distance (150+ mile) drives in the car with the 75W140NS, and I noticed that the center console got substantially hotter with the 75W140NS. How much hotter? I don't know, but it was enough to be noticeable.
Between the two issues, I decided that maybe 75W140NS wasn't the right oil for me. I switched to Redline MT90 two weeks and about 1000 miles ago. So far, the MT90 seems to work much better for my car - no more 2nd gear synchro grinding, and a lot less radiant heat from the transmission tunnel. I've done one 500-mile road trip, an autocross, and plenty of stop-and-go driving since changing to the MT90, and the transmission has performed flawlessly since.
I'll continue to update as I accrue more time (plus some track time) on the MT90. However, at this point I would hesitate to recommend the 75W140NS to anyone. It may work for Mark's application on a dedicated autocross car the, but it did not work for me.
Last edited by altiain; 08-25-2009 at 09:21 AM.
08-25-2009, 06:38 PM
#39
It's working on a number of street cars too, including the one I'm driving for the next two weeks while my rig is out in Lincoln, which BTW has no tunnel heat issue despite the 80 mile RT drive to work daily. We switched it from MT90. Frankly I'm so sick of the subject I could care less what anyone uses. My trans shifts up and down flawlessly regardless. Nothing else really matters.
.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 08-25-2009 at 06:47 PM.
08-25-2009, 07:21 PM
#41
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I'm waiting on a UOA from Blackstone regarding using the Eneos 75w-90 GL5 to see what kinds of issues, if any, are present from using it. I'll hopefully have something to post in about a week.
08-26-2009, 09:34 AM
#43
As part of my ongoing "What didn't the previous owner do?" maintenance on my -8, I changed out the drivetrain fluids prior to the WGI track event. 75w140NS in the transmission, 75w90 in the diff, off we went to Seneca Lake from the Delmarva Peninsula.
320 miles up, about 225 miles on track, 320 miles back, no problems noted aside from a lingering scent of Redline in the car (piece of $#!+ oil transfer pump sprayed fluid everywhere). No 'increased tunnel heat' , and at 90F each day I'd have noticed my soda boiling in the cupholder.
No blown shifts I can't attribute to operator error. No change in driveline noise from start of trip to finish, despite the track time, and THAT was the goal for the 140NS, maintain the 'status quo', and I feel it did just that.
320 miles up, about 225 miles on track, 320 miles back, no problems noted aside from a lingering scent of Redline in the car (piece of $#!+ oil transfer pump sprayed fluid everywhere). No 'increased tunnel heat' , and at 90F each day I'd have noticed my soda boiling in the cupholder.
No blown shifts I can't attribute to operator error. No change in driveline noise from start of trip to finish, despite the track time, and THAT was the goal for the 140NS, maintain the 'status quo', and I feel it did just that.
08-26-2009, 07:18 PM
#44
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Here's my update..
Did 2 track days in 90+ temps, double stinting the car between myself and my wife @WGI... no issues..
Solution... tried GM Sychromesh + FM stuff on a recommendation from a friend's friend that tracks/races with our group..
Last year w Redline MT-90, had the grind between 3-4. Hope that's the end of that issue.
Did 2 track days in 90+ temps, double stinting the car between myself and my wife @WGI... no issues..
Solution... tried GM Sychromesh + FM stuff on a recommendation from a friend's friend that tracks/races with our group..
Last year w Redline MT-90, had the grind between 3-4. Hope that's the end of that issue.
08-26-2009, 08:03 PM
#45
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08-26-2009, 08:57 PM
#46
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I've tried a variety of different transmission oils and the best one I've used is Motorcraft XT-M5-QS. This is for both street and track situations where on the track the MT90 had a tendency to occasionally lock out 3rd when I'm trying to shift up from 2nd. In fact the Motorcraft is so good I have no desire to change to another oil, which will be a first for me when it comes to tranny oil.
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