chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the info and the link.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Three questions for those running Dunlop Star Specs:

1) Could someone with a set of 255/40/17 Star Specs mounted on 17x9" wheels post the stack height for the set? I'd like to see how these compare width-wise to my RS-3's (they are 41 1/4" in stack height)

2) How many runs are you getting out of a set of Star Specs?

3) What kind of tire pressures are you using F&R?

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

Well I wasn't running 17.. I was running 255/35, but if it helps to give you an idea..

2. Bought my set at the beginning of the season, have done 15 events and put 5,000 miles on them and they still feel like new. Didn't shave em.

3. The best pressures for me were 29 front and 32 rear. Running the Stance coilovers with 10k front and 7k rear, with 4 clicks from soft front and 1 click from soft rear.

Hope that helps :x

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

If I were running 17s, I'd probably get AD08s. The 255/40-17 AD08s transitioned as well as my 265/25-18 RE11s, and that's saying quite a bit.

Of course, it depends a lot on what you are looking for out of the car and what your local courses are like. I really like my car to transition well, so I'm more partial to that as opposed to sheer grip in sweepers, subjectively speaking. That, plus their wet grip and ability to handle wide temperature conditions, make them a great 17" single-driver tire, IMO.

Not saying the 17" Yoks (or superior transitional response)are the path to a jacket, but just pointing out something I learned this year. IMO, YMMV, etc.

Anijo

1) I would but well, it wouldn't be a very good comparison at the moment:



For those who remember, it was the same wheel/corner as the last time one of these blew up on me... kinda dubious.

2) Unshaved, I did something like 200 runs + 10,000miles of DD on my last set before they seemed to have heat cycled out of usefulness.

3) Still running 36 all around cold, hot got up to more like 38-40 depending on a lot of different conditions.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Interesting George.

Now that you've autocrossed your RX-8 on R1R's, RE-11's, AD08's (1 event iirc) and RS-3's, how do you feel these four tires compare? Are the R1R's a total waste on a car weighing 2,800lbs???

While I hope to be driving another car next season, I want to continue with the development of my RX-8 at some of my local events. I'd like to try another tire besides the RS-3 and the Star Specs are at the top of my list b/c they do well in so many different conditions (hot, cold, wet, etc). I'm no longer thinking about tires as what's the absolute fastest tire for my car in "perfect summer conditions", but what's the fastest tire for my car for the typical weather seen in Lincoln, NE in early September. I don't think that tire is the RS-3...

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

That's crazy! Is something damaged with your suspension on that corner of the car? Looks like a fender cut a sharp gash all around that tire.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Yikes!

I don't have 17s, but I wouldn't choose the AD08 over the RS3 for max performance, especially on concrete. They feel great, but that's the extent of it IMO. I might still consider another set of 18" wheels though

.

Anijo

I thought about that and took a close look at that corner. The thing is that this was from the back right corner, so that's the inside edge of the tire and there's no obvious damage to the inside of the fenderwell from rubbing on that side etc. which there would need to be.

I didn't transfer the TPMS sensors to these wheels, and a friend suggested that it could be that that tire was low on air due to a slow leak and the combination of stiff and thin sidewalls didn't make it visually obvious. I was on my way to an AutoX when this happened and had already driven ~100 miles on highways to pick up some friends who wanted to come watch. Seems plausible...

I'm worried there was damage to the rim this time but I still haven't had time to get to a tire shop to have it checked out.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Sure, as I said, I'm not saying the AD08s on 17s are the path to a jacket. But based on prior (private) conversations I had with Chike, I knew he wasn't specifically looking for that. One thing I think some of us sometimes loose sight of is that the majority of folks autocrossing are there for the fun & local competition, and don't have the money/skills/time/desire to build the fastest car possible.

So, as you say, the Yoks have a great feel.

As for what is fastest, I'm keeping my 18" SSRs, thank you.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Sure, Star Specs are a great all-around tire as well. I had them as daily tires, 245/40-18s on 8.5" rims, and, subjectively speaking, I didn't like them as much as the 18" RE11s or the 17" Yoks. But that's purely a subjective assesment - I never ran them seriously while autocrossing for various reasons.

As for how the tires compare, as Andy likes to say it depends on an individual's situation. I do not think the Toyos are a waste on the RX-8, at least not for a single driver in a cool climate. They would be the wrong choice for a dual-driven car, or a hot climate, however. It is interesting that I placed better last year, on Toyos, then I did this year on RS-3s. But I'm not going to blame the tires, as much as I would like to have a scapegoat. I think it had more to do with the level of competition going up significantly, and the fact that I struggled with setup issues this year, and also that we made the switch to RS-3s very late and never got to optimize the setup for the higher grip tire.

The RS-3s are the fastest if you can get them up to temp. I just wish we had done 18s to get better transitional response. But their grip on sweepers is awesome. BTW, we ran them in a warm rain the other day (70 degrees or so) and they did much better than I expected - I was waiting for a disaster. But, when we ran them in cool, dry conditions (55 degrees) they were basically worthless for the first few turns, and don't really get fast until a couple of back-to-back runs that you can get when dual-driving a local event. So they are very temp sensitive, as has been stated many times.

The 18" RE11s are a bit tricky on the limit, but I liked it because once I understood the signals, I knew immediately when I had gone too far and a slight input change (steering, throttle, or brakes depending on the situation) would get the car back on line immediately, unless I was *seriously* over-commited, but then no tire can recover from that scenario quickly. I also think they have the best longitudinal grip of the bunch - braking was just amazing on those tires. They are also fast on the first run, which is nice, particularly if you are there for the fun of it as much as the competition. It's nice not throwing away the first run if you just want to drive the car fast and don't care if the top drives are significantly faster (which they will be regardless).

When I bolted on the 17" AD08s, I was amazed at how similar they felt to the 18" RE11s, which again points to a seriously stout sidewall for the Yoks. Of all the comparisons I can make, this is the comparison I am most confident in from a performance perspective, since we ran both tires the same day on a non-technical course that I was very consistent on. Ultimately, I was slightly quicker on the 18" RE11s as opposed to the 17" AD08s, but it was within the noise level of my driving consistency. And it did make we wonder about the performance of the 18" AD08s (I think we all know what Mark will say here).

If I were to drive alone next year & stay home from nats, and was on a tight budget, I'd probably get the 17" Yoks and call it a day, given my climate, surface, and subjective preference for quick transitions.

If I were going to nats, I'd have a set of 17" Toyos mounted for rain/cool conditions, and 18" 'kooks for warm, dry conditions. FWIW.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the detailed response George. Very interesting comment re: 18" 'kooks. When money allows, I might need to look into acquiring a set of 18x9 +45 PF01's and give the 265/35/18 RS-3's a try. If I was able to do this, a set of 255 Toyos would go right onto my 17x9's!

I've already driven a STS miata on Star Specs. In a couple of weeks I'll get the chance to drive a decently-prepped STU E36 M3 (has Vorshlag AST's) on a 17x9/255 Star Specs set-up. I'll hopefully be able to get a feel for how the Star Specs "behave" at the limit and be able to decide if they'll be worth trying on my RX-8.

P.S. Team, as George mentioned we've been talking a great deal off-line, so he kinda knew where I was going with my questions. Thanks for the input everyone.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Given the cost difference I see no reason to even consider the AD08 over the RS3. I would recommend buying and using a set of R1Rs on an RX-8 before proposing their use as if you already had. The setup requirement is substantially different, so you aren't just going to throw a set on and nessecarily be better off regardless of the conditions. I previously wasn't challenging anyone in particular, but rather as somebody who owns them all I'm just sharing my experience right, wrong, or otherwise .... :



.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Yes, Mark, I agree, the optimum setup for a 17" R1R would be different from that of a 18" RS-3 (I've run both, as you will recall, although on 17s). However, even if the car were optimized for the RS-3, when the weather gets cool, the R1Rs would be faster, IMO, particularly for a single-driver car. But I know you disagree and I could be wrong there. At least they are both soft tires.

Of course, as long as there are AWD cars in the mix it doesn't matter what we run in the rain. So, the R1Rs would only really be there in case it was cool and dry at nats, which is unlikely, I suppose.

Also, my budget comment was more focused on 17s vs. 18s, as opposed to brand. My choice of the Yoks over the 'kooks was specifically focused on a local-only season here in Oregon, and then only if I were single-driving. I could see why somebody else (say, who lives in Texas ) would come to a different conclusion.

Otherwise, it's the 'kooks all the way. In fact, even if I don't run nats next year (which I probably won't, but hope to in 2012) I may run 18" 'kooks just to give me a chance to properly optimize the setup.

Of cousre, by 2012 there probably will be another hot tire anyway.

kjchristopher

iTrader: (1)

they worked for me

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

^KJ, you are on 18s, correct?

TopGear8

iTrader: (3)

^Yes he's on 18's

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Were you able to get your tires up to the temps that you wanted on a single driver car? Don't get me wrong, I think the 'kooks are a phenomenal tire for a STX RX-8. They just need heat to work at their best -- which *typically* makes your 1st run a throw away.

kjchristopher

iTrader: (1)

I didn't have a problem. Yes, they work better with heat. But I'm not one that believes the "first run is throw-away" myth. At least not in normal weather.

I did wrap the car in grid at Lincoln. Not sure how much it helped given the time between runs. I actually had a set of Toyos there. They were full-tread tires that I had never driven on (brought for rains). I came close to running them, but chickened out given my total lack of experience with them. I discussed the issue with a few people who had driven both and decided the risks weren't worth the reward. It simply wasn't "too cold for Hankooks" in my opinion.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

^I do agree with the notion that the 'kooks were fine given the conditions at nats this year, at least for the run group STX was in.

But the 'kooks do fall off in lower temps, particularly the first few turns of the first run when the ambient temp is 55 F. No question about that.

So, like I (and others) have been saying, it just depends on what "normal" weather is for you.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Interesting. Do you remember what the temps were like on Day 1 and Day 2 of STX this year at Nats? Looks like you had a scorcher 1st run on day 2, but on day 1 you improved a decent amount on subsequent runs.
Agree 100%. I've never done an event where the temp was in the 50's, but did a couple in the spring under overcast skies in the low 60's. The Hankooks were utterly useless. I almost felt like swapping back to my continental street tires and running those on my final run.

TopGear8

iTrader: (3)

^Day 2 was overcast and probably 10 degrees colder than day 1.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Wow!

That makes his 1st run on Day 2 all the more impressive (from a quick glance of times in the STX class it looks like KJ had the fastest 1st run time on Day 2).

TopGear8

iTrader: (3)

How long did it take you to look through 54, 1st runs? :P

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

LOL!