ProtoConVert

For only people who like oval racing, or who know other people who do...

Why do you like oval racing? What are the specific components about it that make you like it? If you don't personally, why do you think other people like it? This is a serious question.

wakeech

yes, me too... i do want to "get it"...

OrangeBingo

What exactly is there to not "get"? It is racing, it has history, it makes perfect sense. It is as interesting to me as WRC? No, but that is not to say that it is not viable as a motorsport or that it lacks its share of challenges or variables. How can you not "get it"?

revhappy

I personally find it boring and have zero interest in it. I suppose people like it because they can see the whole race easier and its easier to understand. Also, there is plenty of beer at the tailgate parties. :p

wakeech

i don't understand what's so interesting about it... where does it come from?? why the hell do they drive in ACTUAL circles?? how can people be so enthralled?? what is it i'm watching?? etc etc etc...

OrangeBingo

Ok, so you see it as racing for dumb people? What makes it this way to you? Do you believe that there is actually less skill involved to do well? Or do you think it is a simple matter to set these cars up to run the way they do? Or is it that you think the whole endevor is a waste of talent, money and effort? (I may have to give you the last one)

wakeech

woah woah woah... what's with all the defensiveness?? i'm asking: i do want to get it... but tell me: does it take more effort and brain power to set up an NHRA Top Fuel car, or an F1 world-championship winning kart??

OrangeBingo

Not being defensive, just attempting to pinpoint what it is that you don't like. Seriously, just trying to help.

OrangeBingo

Ha ha ha. You really want to use F1 as an example whan you are calling another motorsport boring? Sure F1 is more tech oriented, but consider the budget difference, shouldn't we be impressed with the achievements that are made with less money? Hell, isn't that what the RX-8 is all about? Making for a dime what any fool can make for a dollar.

wakeech

whoa whoa!! haha... i keep saying, hold on.

i'm not trying to diss oval racing at all, i'm wondering what it's all about?? top speed?? is that like the "ultimate measure" of performance in this kind of racing??

ok, here's what i mean: in drag, power and acceleration is "ultimate", in karts it's all about the grip and average speed through a twisty course, in dorifto-maximus (lol) style is the "ultimate" measure of performance, in endurance it's about the car lasting through a torturous battle, and rallying is about adaptability and control in very challenging environments, etc etc etc...

i just want to understand the romance, as without that ALL racing is just idiots zooming around in a circle, going no where really fast.

OrangeBingo

Sigh, but isn't all racing about power, acceleration, grip, etc? To different degrees depending on the genre of course. If the point is to fly around an oval for hundreds of miles and be in the front when it is over, well, what do you think the emphasis is on? Grip through the turns, power on the way out, top speed at the end of the straight sections, ability to slow rapidly, good fuel consumption, stability at high speeds, and on, and on, and on.

I guess I don't see what you find so different about oval racing.

wakeech

i just don't see the romance... and the emphasis is very much not on grip, with big banked corners, HUGE soft slicks, and no running in the rain: grip isn't a part of the contest (neither is vehicle design)... engine building, for what i know, is a big part of that... but *shrug* i just don't know.

ProtoConVert

See OB, those are exactly the elements I like about road courses (for example, Winston Cup at Sebring I think it was)... long races, acceleration, top speed, braking, fuel/tire/brake management and strategy, aero... and more importantly turns. I think turns is probably where all of those elements come into play more than anything else... and its just that oval racing has less.

I mean, I've thought about it some more and I suppose that ovals are better for the behind the scenes people like track owners, (or maybe just track owners), b/c they dont have to buy that much land vs a road course, with associated less maintenance etc. But that doesn't leave much for viewers or TV... I guess its better to watch live.

There's also the fact that it probably keeps the competition close... although I'm not so sure about this one. I know F1 has its problems with the different levels of corporate investment translating to different technology tiers -> separate groups of points-earners (earners vs not) so in the end that it becomes like 3 separate races... but I'm not so sure that NASCAR doesn't have the leaders lapping laggers multiple times either.

I don't think team cost should enter into this... both should be the same whether on road or ovals...

I guess my question is because ovals seem monotonous... both on TV and maybe to the driver I think. But then I hear things like track or TV execs somewhere in some mag saying that road courses are a thing of the past for American racing... and that just doesnt make sense to me.

OrangeBingo

Nor to me, I will always favor a good road course to any oval. I am not a NASCAR fan per se. I am, however, a fan of motor sports in general and while my tastes tend towards WRC, Speed GT, American Le Mans, etc. I have a great amount of respect for the NASCAR guys. Sure the tracks are monotonous, but the bumping and jockeying for position makes it interesting to watch, and i sure as hell doubt that the drivers get very bored.

OrangeBingo

I am not sure what you mean. You would argue that there is little difference between the cars in terms of road holding ability? That is to say, you dont see how a given team could gain an advantage over another in grip?

Sputnik

When you attend an oval race, it is much much easier to follow the race. Not just the leaders, or whoever the TV crew puts on the screens, but whoever you want to watch, especially your favorite drivers. You'll still see me at road courses and street races, but it's nice to be able to constantly watch your drivers.

What I like about oval racing is when a series goes to a track where they have to brake into corners, and accelerate out of them. While your setup is very important in such situations, you still have to adjust your line and your driving to get the car around the track the fastest. And you have to adjust to differing fuel loads and tire wear too. And like road courses, you need to find your advantage over the other driver to get around him, like taking a different line out of a corner, braking deeper. What is so cool about that on short tracks is that it happens so quickly, drivers really have to be on their toes.

What I don't like about oval racing in the States is that there are alot of races at tracks were braking and accelerating out of a corner is not a part of it. The emphasis is more on setup, and just hanging on, then on the ability of the driver to control the car. So, when NASCAR or IRL goes to Texas, or Las Vegas, or Michigan, it's not all that entertaining to watch, because there is little that you can follow. And then there is the extreme like Nascar's restrictor plate races (Daytona and Talledega) where they just line up behind each other, jockey for the occasional position, hope that they don't get caught up in a wreck, and then get so desperate that they wreck each other on the last ten laps. Mind you, there is a bit of technical aspect to those races, and there are many things that a driver has to get used to, and be able to communicate with their crew that it is not easy, but there isn't much for the race fan to follow as it is happening.

So, weekends like this weekend, where Nascar is at Michigan, I'll keep an eye to follow the progress and who's doing what in the championship, but that's it. But on weekends when Nascar is at a place like Bristol, I will be watching every minute of track time.

---jps