tuj

The 20B has side intake ports, and perhipheral exhaust. The 13G, and generally all other rotary race engines are full peripheral port, meaning both intake and exhaust are peripheral. The Renesis is first major engine to use side exhaust, but all of the production 13B and 20B engines used side intakes.

And in the case of detonation, a lot of people feel the Renesis is worse once it happens, because without the peripheral exhaust, there is no where for the seal to go, so it just spins around and scores the housing.

Why not develop a 3 rotor Renesis-derrived engine? They'd need to develop a new front intermediate housing to support the middle rotor. Other than that, there's nothing really stopping them other than cost and man-power.

rotarygod

A 3 rotor all side port engine will not develop as much power as a 3 rotor all peripheral port engine.

CLR Motorsports may very well be using their own rotor housings on a planned engine or an upcoming one but all the pictures that we've seen up to this point have been of original 13G housings. They have some very distinct features whereas a modified 13B housing would still look like a 13B housing.

mazmart: You want to tell them about the evolution of the 13J? It had a few progressions. Differences is housings thicknesses, the use of ceramics, and hot sprayed surfaces, 2 stage, multi stage, and then finally variable intake manifold length all played parts in the renaming from engine to engine. All of this also happened over a few short years. 13J > 13J-M > 13J-MM > R26B

BlueRenesis82

that variable intake manifold is a work of art.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I'm not even sure Prof Engman could describe all those changes as well as you. He could expound however on every difference between 26B and R26B engines which he has enormous experience with. I saw in the RG oil blog where it was being argued by someone that rotary race motors are rebuilt after every race. I decided it wasn't the appropriate place to interject the correction but I will do so now. The Engman built motors in the Downing Atlanta (Our parent company) Kudzu prototype racecars often saw in excess of 100 race hours before a teardown. If you know what you are doing these things are ultrareliable and quite durable. The offending individual made an ugly comment to RG for suggesting they weren't torn down after every race.
Here are a few items I thought you guys might find interesting from my boss' 'secret room' including 3529 gram rotors. Too bad Mazda of Japan doesn't think it important to make some more of these available.
Paul.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Do you mean this one? It's pretty nice although a little complicated and not posessing the ultimate flow characteristics since it has to try to play so many different roles. The contraption in the last picture I believe operates the whole deal.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I think this is a work of art myself and RG sorry for hijacking your thread. I'm done now. Hope to see you in CA next month for 7stock.
Paul.

rotarygod

100 race hours is really good considering that the average race is 2 hours long and there are only a dozen or so races per year. Then obviously you have practice time but this isn't nearly as hard on the engine. Porsche always commented that each mile on a track was equivalent to 100 miles on the street in terms of engine abuse.

BlueRenesis82: Here's another trivia fact. The actuator motors that moved the intake trumpets back and forth were actually just the retractable headlight motors from a 2nd gen RX-7!!! They used cut down RX-7 throttle cables to attach them.

rotarygod

You didn't hijack my thread. You hijacked the thread that I hijacked! If I take a trip out to Atlanta, is there any way I can see those in person? My dad was a Delta pilot for 26 years. Getting there is easy (as long as Delta stays in business).

See you in LA. I'll be there again.

BlueRenesis82

i read the paper on the intake from the 787b, truly a brainstrorm.

zoom44

having paul around to whip out pics like that is such a kick:D

thanks paul

BlueRenesis82

yeah no kidding, i wish i had seen stuff like that in person

zoom44

hehe i just noticed his hand in that one pick - so he didnt just have pics to grab- he went over and grabbed the part and TOOK the pic heheheheheh

CERAMICSEAL

If Mazda of Japan were really serious about another attempt at LeMans and properly utilized the knowledge and experience of Mr Engman and some of the old wise Japanese rotary engineers that they seem to have sent out to pasture they could have real success. Everyone would have to operate as a tight unit. A fresh, purpose built, lightweight chassis would be essential with emphasis on innovation in the areas of cooling while maximizing aerodynamics. You would definitely want to use the brain power of Dr Iannetti who is a materials expert and does work for NASA on the shuttle. He has been utilised for ceramic seals and light weight, durable, quiet and effective mufflers. This man is a genious. Sometomes it seems as if Mazda doesn't seem to know these people exist, especially in the financial area. If you want results you have to put up or shut up. This is Dennis Spencer's strong suit. He is adventurous and willing to make a galant attempt including using his own money.

BlueRenesis82

I would like to seem them make a run, but they to be assured of a shot, it makes no sense for thet to field a half *** effort

Razz1

Sure would be nice if they offered a 3 rotor from the factory just like an option for the BMW Z3.

Even Corvets have the option of the L7 motor with 500 ponies.

rotary crazy

Mazmart you can hijack mi thread any time, you are most welcome.

RG: The actuator motors that moved the intake trumpets back and forth were actually just the retractable headlight motors from a 2nd gen RX-7!!! They used cut down RX-7 throttle cables to attach them

I read about that it is really intresting and funny you normally think a multi million dollar team was going to used something exotic, but the system that controls those motors was a computer that activated them at diferent rpm levels rigt?

CLR is using this housings in some 13bs race engines they have built for some customers wiht RX-8 internals, I have seen some dinos # and they look really good.

I never imagine this thread was going to be so informative :D

I wish I could make it to sevenstock this year

is mr.downing goin to make a come back?

rotary crazy

Does anybody now if Dennis is going to run a diferent 4 rotor car or is it going to be the same bk c65 courage wiht an angine swap?

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Is Mr Downing going to make a comeback? Has he gone somewhere? Just kidding. That would be a question only he could answer and would be a good one to throw at hom at Sevenstock. He's having a lot of fun right now racing a C spec racer in SCCA and has his hands full with HANS his other company.

tuj

Could someone tell me what the filtration method was on the R26b? With those intakes moving back and forth, there wasn't an airbox was there? Individual filters?

I had found a whitepaper a while back by some of the Mazda engineers on the torque increase that the variable length intake provided. It was quite significant I believe.

rotary crazy

I dit not now he was racing , by a comeback I meant to ALMS.

Thanks for the answers

rotarygod

The filter method they use for the air is to filter the dust directly through the combustion chamber!!! And they can still go seasons without a rebuild!

The intake trumpets could move a total of 175 mm (6.91") to adjust the torque peak between 6000 and their shift pont of 9000 rpm. It basically gave them the perfect length intake anywhere within this range. This was about 90% of their total usable powerband.

RotaryGoober

[QUOTE=rotarygod]The filter method they use for the air is to filter the dust directly through the combustion chamber!!! And they can still go seasons without a rebuild!

.....Now Now RG.. you may be the reigning deity around here but you can't run that crapola up the flagpole with out some one calling ya out!! .. Remember that the expanding trumpets were inside of a box, carbon fiber if I remember, that filtered the air and allowed the free movement of the variable intake. Unfiltered air on a rotary, shame on you... And seasons without a rebuild? Maybe on of the old SCCA 12a's or Star series... What will the disciples think?

rotarygod

Since the engine builders themselves have admitted that these engines go 100 race hours without a rebuild, I would tend to believe them. They don't get rebuilt very often. Rotaries are extremely durable engines. A carbon fiber box is not a filter. That's like taking the filter out of the stock RX-8 box and saying it still has one. The presence of a box also does not mean it has a filter. It is more of a shield from heat and a way to funnel air into the engine. It's possible that they could have run a filter. Other LeMans cars don't. The current Formula Mazdas do though.

Marietta 8

The last LeMans cars I saw had filters and we tore down at 50 hours. Rotary Goober knows a thing or 2 about a thing or 2. 100 racing hours is pushing the envelope beyond yield but thats just my opinion and thats why forums are here, right?

CERAMICSEAL

Marietta8,
I can't believe you would use your actual picture for your avatar :D . You guys should just listen to Paul at Mazmart, he's just so handsome, I mean knowledgeable. And Mr god they are all filtered. None of the high level race teams have ever considered running unfiltered.