NeoTuri

I know this is a little off-topic but are the ring and pinion 4.777's compatible with the FD3S diff?

-Nevermind-

Got my answer.

Imp

The car in the releases is shod with what looks to be RE050A tires.

The stock 19's are about .1" higher in diameter over the stock 18s. (Not talking r-compounds here).

Hi everybody!

--kC
(R3 sounds appealing... )

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

^
Welcome back KC!

clyde

All told, the R3 doesn't sound very appealing for Solo.

And what are you doing here?

Imp

Only time will tell... when all the details are out as far as how much a difference the rear suspension redesign makes, stiffening the front, the bilsteins vs stock vs konis. (I know many companies that can revalve bilsteins)

If 2nd tops out at or just above 60, it's not going to make much of a difference on solo courses. If it's in the 58's or so, then there might be a problem.

What else would be the problem? R-compound height and how it effects gearing? How about slightly wider tires to compensate?

Granted heavier 19" wheels may be an issue... does anyone know if they changed the offset or bolt pattern for the '09?

Frankly, I can't see that many negatives right now if all the rumors pan out to be true.

--kC

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Comparing section-width to section-width I get the following:

245/35-18 A6 = 9.8"
245/35-18 V710 = 9.8"
235/35-19 A6 = 10.2"
265/35/19 A6 = 10.4"

So while 245/35-18 V710/A6's run wide, the 235/35-19 A6 runs wider. It also only weighs 22lbs which is comparable in weight to the 245/35-18 V710. No published weight on Hoosier's website for the 265/35-19 but it will probably be at least 2-3lbs heavier. The 235/35-19 definitely seems like it'll be the 'right' tire for the R3 RX-8.

altiain

iTrader: (3)

Hey Keith,

Before you buy another RX-8, how about sending me the car cover and records that you promised me when I bought your first one?

chenry

From Edmunds blog

"...So when a Mazda official told us after the press conference that the car was also 45 pounds lighter than before we were skeptical. Turns out the optional 19-inch wheels that come with the R3 package are actually lighter than the stock 18s. And apparently those Recaro seats are much lighter than stock...."

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Very interesting. Maybe the stock wheels for the R3 will be the ones-to-have. Stock 18x8" rims weigh 21.5lbs so if they weigh 20-21lbs that's very decent for a wheel that most likely is 19x8"!

PedalFaster

Those section widths were measured on wheels of different widths, and thus aren't comparable...

clyde

At face value, I'd hate to go with a narrower tire (235/35-19), but it would take advantage of the 4.777 compared to the current car. The next tire size up in 19 is 265/35-19 which will have a taller sidewall height and the overall diameter should create acceleration about the same as the current car. The new non-R3 shouldn't give up anything on tire width and get the improved acceleration. By the time the new car is available and eligible, tire size choices could well improve to the point that it's not a major factor.

Overall, the Bilsteins are probably about a wash compared to the Konis...once you get the valving where you want it. The release didn't say anything about springs, so

The changes to rear geometry apply to both the new base and R3 cars...and we don't know if it's a change for the good or bad.

The changes to the rear gear are the same for base and R3.

The R3 also comes with the extra weight of the 300 watt Bose and leather seats (hopefully, the new seats don't decrease seat cushion to ceiling distance).

I wonder if the shock dimensions will change (base and R3) to the point that the current Konis would no longer be legal.

The new shock tower bracing applies to both base and R3.

The R3 gets the filled crossmember. I suppose that can't hurt.

There seem to be a few rumors about a new or altered transmission. Will second gear stay the same?

What I was really saying was that the new car (R3 or not) doesn't seem to hold much appeal over the current car. Based on what we do know now, I think the new base will be better than the R3, but that's just a guess. I also think it's a totally open question whether either of the new cars will be better than the current car.

But what do I know? I ditched a very well set up 2004 RX-8 to hop into an AS Boxster S.

clyde

But are they lighter than the SSR Comps, OZ Ultralegarras, and Kodiaks that people use in Stock competition?

If true, that's interesting.

tomsn16

One would think new Recaros might be lighter than current leather but not lighter than cloth seats. Time will tell.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Fair enough, let's look at tread widths for Hoosier A6's specifically:

245/35-18 A6 = 9.1"
235/35-19 A6 = 9.25"
265/35/19 A6 = 9.6"

https://www.hoosiertire.com/speccat.pdf

Using the above info we see that once again the 235/35-19 A6 has a wider tread width than the 245/35-18 A6. So running the 235-19 will not sacrifice any tread width and will allow the 4.777 geared car to retain 4.1% gearing advantage over the previous model on 245/35/18 r-comps.

clyde

The important number is what's the treadface width in contact with the ground when mounted on the 19x8 wheel compared to the 18x8 wheel.

And after that's answered, whether the A6 is the better tire for the RX-8 compared to the V710? Next is where all three versions (2004-2008 base, 2009 base, 2009 R3) stack up against each other in their best possible configurations?

Or put in practical terms, does anyone think that their current car will be relegated to has-been status because one or the other 2009s will become dominant?

mwood

If anyone's looking, I have a 2006 base MT6 in excellent condition with 13k miles, completely set up including an extra set of OZ's, that I can sell for the lease pay off

This is the Pro Solo champ and Nationals runner up car...

Just kidding...but, come August I will have wheels, shocks and other stuff to sell!

Jason Saini

The 'strengthened' transmission, is merely the MX-5 transmission. I saw a new RX-8 version of it when I was in the Mazda Tech center in Irvine last month.

Provided the ratios don't change from the MX-5 transmission, the following should be a very accurate gear chart showing the differences between an '04-'08 car and the '09 R3. I omitted 1st gear from this, but first is significantly shorter, so it will run out sooner. I think 2nd being shorter will help, but 61mph will hurt on some fast courses.

I'll work to verify that the ratios aren't going to change. We hope to have a test-mule transmission here to play with in a month or so, and when we do I'll let everyone know how it holds up.

Overall, the car looks sweet in person - I just got back from the auto show. The seats are apparently quite a bit lighter. They are guessing this version to be 45lb lighter than a comparably equipped non-R3. The 'whizzy' options they have on this are all negligible in their weight (stereo, bluetooth, advanced keyless, etc.) Apparently the 19's are quite a bit lighter than the old 18's were, but that gain is cancelled for our purposes, so this car will only be 20-30lb lighter than a current car.

I definitely think there's one of these in our future... Juliann is jonesing to autocross more, and I loved running one at Nationals! (Thanks Kenny!) We need a daily driver anyway, and I love how this thing looks - so I think we'll be ordering one up. Love the blue, too. :D

Car (1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th FD)
04-'08' RX-8 (3.760 - 2.269 - 1.645 - 1.187 - 1.000 - 0.843 - 4.440)
09' RX-8 R3 (3.815 - 2.260 - 1.640 - 1.177 - 1.000 - 0.832 - 4.770)

Revs @60, '04-'08 RX-8 - 2nd - 8391.9 / 3rd - 6084.1 / 4th - 4390.1 / 5th - 3698.5 / 6th - 3117.9
Revs @60, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd - 8807.4 / 3rd - 6391.2 / 4th -4586.9 / 5th - 3897.1 / 6th - 3242.4


Speed @Redline, '04-'08 RX-8 - 2nd - 63.6 / 3rd - 87.8 / 4th - 121.6 / 5th - 144.4 / 6th - 171.3
Speed @Redline, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd - 60.6 / 3rd - 83.6 / 4th - 116.4 / 5th - 137.0 / 6th - 164.7


Rev drop, '04-'07 RX-8 - 2nd to 3rd - 6746.7 / 3rd to 4th - 6715.0 / 4th to 5th - 7839.9 / 5th to 6th - 7845.0
Rev drop, '09 RX-8 R3 - 2nd to 3rd - 6885.3 / 3rd to 4th - 6809.6 / 4th to 5th - 8061.4 / 5th to 6th - 7894.2

Jason Saini

FWIW, the above gear chart is with the stock 19's (817 revs per mile.) Someone got data on revs per mile for the 235/35/19 Hoosiers?

Zoom4Three

Hi Jason -

25.6" OD - Revs Per Mile = 812.5


Chris Harvey

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

imho the car does not need any shorter gearing. We can only hit 62mph now in 2nd on a 245-35-18. I hit the limiter in 2nd on one of the natls course, and used 1st on the other, shorter gearing could mean a useless 1st and more limiter in 2nd.

mwood

Yeah, forget the shorter gearing, get me that new motor with more torque, down lower in the rpm range...

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

for those who may not know, the SE3P/RX-8 and the FD3/RX7TT R&Ps and LSDs are interchangeable

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Thanks for that info Jason

The OE cloth seats in my '05 weighed 37 lbs each.. A good bit of that weight over the PP Recaros with Recaro sliders I used for STU is in the steel hinging and seat adjuster parts. The OE seat itself is actually very light, aluminum and foam. I can't see that much weight dropping from those.


chiketkd, those tread widths were measured on wheels of different widths, and thus aren't comparable...

using your own link:

245/35-18" A6 - 8.5" measuring wheel
235/35-19" A6 - 9.0" measuring wheel
265/35-19" A6 - 9.0" measuring wheel

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

So, is the new RX-8 expected to debut in time for this years season?

edit: cars.com claims Summer/2008

fastmike

I thought a 245/710 on the current RX8 goes 63.xxx GPS mph at revlimiter?
Correct me if I am wrong.

I think that is too fast for the "current" courses that we have been getting at Nats.
I guess it all depends on how slow the "second gear" stuff before an acceleration section is though.
Left side finish was probably the only time anyone hit the limiter at Nats this year in second gear on the 8's?
MAYBE a brush after the left side opening slalom? Probably not though.
FM (raced on a wet right side)