CRX Millennium

iTrader: (1)

With National coming up in a few weeks, most of you who frequent the Racing forum are probably working feverishly to prepare the cars. For the rest of aspiring mortals, National remains as the ultimate goal to challenge ourselves. We are about 2/3 way thru the autocross season for non-west coast inhabitants. I started out the year as RWD-and-autocross neophyte, and am progressing thru the learning curve slowly but maturely with a few outside T1-3 trophies at local venues. Therefore, I like to reflect on what I have learned/researched/gathered during the process on aspects concerning competitiveness/weakness and community difference between S2000 and RX-8:

Competitiveness/Weakness:

Throughout the year, all seasoned racers who have driven RX-8 point out to the following issues:

1)Steering is too fast
2)Body roll is excessive
3)Shocks are too soft

Issue #1&2 can be addressed by having better driver control and adapting aftermarket front sway bar respectively. However, issue #3 is challenging without putting up substantial investment in either “off-the-shelf” Koni SA or “arm-and-leg” units like Moton, Penske, and Ohlin. Reading thru
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=302156
and learning that Colin won T1 in AS at Peru on stock shocks, one can infer that S2000 is more competent than RX-8 in stock forms. That conclusion is rightfully so since SCCA moves S2K into AS this year with RX-8 toiling in BS. To make National dream come true, I plan on getting a lot of seat-time, taking a lot of Evo School, and reading a lot of suspension tuning books on getting the most out of stock shocks thru alignment tuning before breaking the piggy bank for a set of Koni 2812, custom-valved to stock springs.

Community Support:

Check out
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=173528

RX-8 community as a whole, lacks the commitment and extent of resources available to S2K racers. While we are fairly young and still in the infancy stage, we can do more so RX-8 racers have a guiding map to overcome nervousness/fear concerning autox. I will gladly put together a FAQ on autox with the help of experienced racers like you.

My $.02.

BlueRenesis82

Or for other track related activities like HPDE's and other stuff.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

wow, guess we should have conferred with you first ...

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

WTF are you talking about???

John V

iTrader: (1)

I think he's referring to the autocross setup FAQ on the S2ki boards and his desire to start one for the RX-8.

While he does that, I'm gonna go try to get fast. :o

clyde

And while you do that, I'm going to try to get quick. :p

PedalFaster

I think Jason's referring to the RX-8's "too fast" steering -- it isn't particularly, especially compared to CRX Millennium's benchmark S2000.

Yeah, that S2000 autocross setup FAQ rules! :p

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Fwiw, Koni 2812's for a Stock class RX-8 will have your ride height sitting much higher and with less camber than the hydraulic double-tube Konis due to the high gas pressure (300+ psig). Further, their superior low speed damping is completely negated by all the rubber suspension bushing compliance.

If I believed them to be better for the application I'd be on them, that's just not the case so I'd advise you to not pay 2x+ for nothing (and Koni will tell you the same thing)

CRX Millennium

iTrader: (1)

Team RX8,

I am by no means an experienced autocrosser. Therefore, my post was just to simply convey what I have picked up during the short amount of time I have campaigned running the car. Sorry if the post came off as being offensive or negative in tone. Thanks for the feedback on Koni 2812. The quest for the best performance/budget shocks continues on then.

ULLOSE,

The steering being too fast issue can be viewed as a mixed blessing. Since I am still relatively new, I tend to overshoot the steering angles as I come up to turns out on the course. The most likely reason is that I am not smooth enough, since my steering is a bit frantic inside the cockpit. The comment was echoed by a number of seasoned racers who drove RX-8.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

best budget = standard Koni single adjustable shocks

best Stock performance = the above degassed and converted to double adjustable

I think you and those seasoned racers are confusing setup issues for steering issues

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

OK, so your inputs are to fast. That is what I thought you meant. I dont know any FAST RX8 drivers that think the car turns to quick. Our Vette and Miata turn in way faster than the 8. It takes for ever for the 8 to transfer its weight and take a set. I love it when new guys start telling us all the problems with our cars and setup.

John V

iTrader: (1)

It's been a struggle for me to get used to the turn-in of the RX-8 but I came from a notoriously slow-steering vehicle.

It's not a problem with the car, it's a problem with the driver. More seat time and instruction will train you to slow your hands down and start attacking the back.

JV

BlueRenesis82

^ agreed, I wish I had more on track training.

Razz1

Well if you think the steering is too fast...........

It's a blessing on HDPE tracks. The car is very forgiving for those who do not know how to control.

For those that do it's great as you be much more aggressive and out do the competitiors as you can brake later.

It also comes in handy when those in front of you change there lines. You can readjust for the attack to pass on the straights.

Also when they spin out in front of you or over a hillcrest as on some track the steering gives the the flexability to move out of the way.

God Bless Mazda. There steering saves lives..

Razz1

I wish there was more support/enthusiasim. Been trying to get the guys to track their cars.

Well at least three of them will do an Auto X on 7/23 at Calf. Speedway.

Most members here in Calf. are very young.

Gee, if they could only make it to the track once with an instructor..........

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure about that date?? The Cal CLub solo2 schedule shows that as a practice and it is still listed as tentative. The practice is not the same as a school. On sunday the 24th there is a regular solo2, but also still listed as tentative.
To keep up to date with LA events: www.solo2.com
I was shocked to only see two RX8's at the last Cal Club event.

There is an event in San Diego on the 16th-17th of July. Sat being a practice and Sun a regular event. We will be there on Sun.

http://www.sdr-scca.com/solo2/schedule/

MazdaRich

I'm thinking of putting together an RX-8 autocross FAQ. Keep in mind that I have yet to actually autocross the 8, so it's as much for my benefit to find out what people are doing and what works. My initial impressions from driving the car in the mountains is that the shocks are not up to the task, but I'm not sure if I can afford to put Koni Sports on the car before September.

If you think the steering is fast--you should try driving my Miata. The RX-8 turns in like a Buick compared to that car. Swaybar, alignment and shocks will help that issue.

So who is willing to share their setup advice? I have 4 real questions:
1. What are the "ideal" alignment settings.
2. What are the best tires and sizes (and pressures)
3. Which swaybar to put on.
4. Bonus question: How does one set up the Koni Sports (since they are not adjustable in the rear once installed)

tuj

1. Max possble negative front camber. Set rear to match or maybe a half degree less negative than the fronts. Zero front and rear toe (although that's more of a driver preference thing).

2. If you're running b-stock, you have to run 18's, so the best size is the widest tire you can get on the wheel. I think this is a 275 35. The autox tire of choice is Kuhmo V710's.

3. Sways: debatable. Either the stock sway, MS sway, or RB sway (listed in order of increasing stiffness). RB sway makes the car transition better but punishes too-hot corner entry with most understeer than the stock bar.

4. Rear shocks: If you can live with a harsh street ride, go full stiff.

dknv

My hats off to you and CRX Millenium for wanting to do this.

Be prepared that you are likely to find a dozen different opinions on setup. There was some sorting out of setup last year, but the stakes have gotten higher this year. Last year there were no RX8's at Nationals, this year I'd expect to see good representation, and therefore, better intelligence on setup. Moral of this is, be prepared to be patient in order to wade through the feedback, and look in many places to consolidate your information.

Case in point, while 275/35-18's are one of the widest tires that an rx8 driver has fit, Kumho's 18" sizes for V710's are as follows, and I haven't heard of anyone fitting a 285/30-18 yet:

245/35R18 8.0 - 9.524.89.6 on 8.5430/C/A22
285/30R18 9.5 - 10.524.811.1 on 10.0430/C/A24
315/35R18 10.5 - 12.526.412.9 on 12.0430/C/A28

John V

iTrader: (1)

285 Kumho won't fit. 285 Hoosier might, but why bother?

You guys are putting the cart before the horse. Setup is going to depend on driving style, not to mention the fastest folks haven't determined what setup is the fastest for them yet

clyde

I would expect more post-Nationals. As we rapidly approach September's big event, some people might not want to share everything. There are a few people here that have a real shot at winning (or at least coming in second if that pesky 968 runs away from everyone else ) and have put a lot of effort to get their cars where they are.

That said, if you search through old posts here, there is a lot of good info. Some of it may be out of date (people have moved on from earlier setups) and some of it may have come from people that don't really know what they're talking about (self-description) but it should still give someone a good idea of where people have been and what's been tried.

Right now, the general consensus is that the 245/35 V710 is the tire to have, but no one has reported on running the 275/35 Hoosier S05 (or the 285/30 S05 for that matter).

CRX Millennium

iTrader: (1)

As the original thread starter, I'm glad to see that people are receptive to the idea/benefit of FAQ on autocross. As we all know, autocross is probably 99% driver/1% setup on local level, and 80%/20% for National level. The proposed guide will not be the "final say" on how one should set-up the car, rather about how one can approach the topic with some basic building blocks.

With that in mind, I will start collecting information by synthesizing what has been said by experienced RX-8 racers. Hopefully, past winning RX-8 drivers will also be kind enough to share car-setup info. Sounds like MazdaRich is also willing to jointly contribute to the effort. It will always be a work- in-progress, so we might as well start now while the car is still being actively campaigned.

dknv

It'll also help me to resist that very tempting response using the key combination of 'do a search'. :p

I remember a percentages discussion from last year, opinions varied, and there were 3rd or 4th elements too, maybe one of them was 'luck'? (rain or bad weather, parts breaking, your biorhythms are not in synch ). And maybe you can include a section of 'stuff to watch out for' (turn off the dang DSC).

clyde

Wheel stud and lug nut condition after a few tire swaps.

Dark8

And maybe you can include a section of 'stuff to watch out for:

- Low blood sugar level. Driving is a hard when you can't think.
- Putting your hand in the melted chocolate in your center console with no time before your run to clean it off. Why would I do this? See above.