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Well again, until we determine the measurement that actually is defined by the rule; which if anyone here knows what that is they must be keeping it a secret, then we don’t really know what’s actually an allowed part and what isn’t. My reference earlier was that wrt the pictured OE height vs the pictured with-spacer installed height and the assumption that the OE bushings don’t deflect much. What my eyes are seeing doesn’t match up to the discussion is all.
Not trying to knock anyone, insult anyone, condescend to anyone, blame anyone, protest anyone, etc. Rather, my position is we maybe didn’t address it in accordance to how the rule defines the situation. Now that it’s known and out for anyone to see we need to determine what that dimension is and then everyone can do what they believe to be appropriate. After that let the chips fall where they may.
Until we have the dimension defined by the rule which we all agree upon then nothing useful is coming out of obsessing any further over what is actually legal or not.
I might even suggest that the pair of OE mounts pictured earlier be put in a box and shipped to me just for that purpose. My RX8 is in progress on jack stands without tires, exhaust, brakes, or shock/springs. So it isn’t any big deal to swap them in/out.
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I think it's fine to overthink things and ensure that you yourself have firm ground in case of protest. It'll only take one competitor willing to pursue it.
I'm curious now if I missed a motor mount protest in any other SP classes? RX8's can't be the only ones with aftermarket mounts sitting in a grey area.
EDIT: and to your point Mark about how its measured, I fear that this will not be addressed in the rulebook and be left to each PC to determine what the proper measurement is. Still would be a worthwhile pursuit though.
As far as I can tell all the DSP RX8s are running RX8peformance's mounts
I'm running the RaceRoots ones, which seem to be of similar design but I do not think they are identical. They did not ship with a spacer, but do have a larger washer to distribute the load.
Prefacing this with the fact that I'm relatively new to 'higher' levels of motorsports, but do come from a world that is just as competitive, this is an issue that should be fully self-policing in my book. The current paddock is not going to make a big deal over this, so why is anyone else? Pretty much any car you pick has some level of 'cheating' if you use the absolute strictest reading of the rules, but not as a way to gain a performance edge. My car technically doesn't meet the rules because of the hole in the dash where the double din cutout is, one day I'll actually mount my DAQ screen... maybe. Kuhn's side skirts are blatantly against the rules, yet no one is protesting. Unless you're willing to protest someone over having busted stock mounts, then arguing over 1/4", or even 1/2" of engine height is pointless.
My "DP" car has the subframe redrilled and the mounts notched to lower and move rearward the powertrain, that car will never be campaigned outside of a local setting because of that clearly going against the letter and intent of the rules. That change of almost 4" is also clearly large enough to affect the performance of the car.
That motor is TOAST. Did you use the leading or trailing plug holes?
Trailing.
The rear rotor is doing all the work. It deserves a proper send off. It'll finish out the season most likely. I plan to dyno it and send it down the 1/4 mile for bench marking purposes before I send it off to get disembowled.
I have a tester loaned out to another member, but I can have him ship it to you next. Lmk.
Brake parts are supposed to be completed at the machine shop tomorrow morning. However, the person who helped me go down this path for the rear brakes; Keith at Flyin’ Miata, told me that they decided against pursuing this with anyone else. This started as the Flyin’ Miata rear LBBK brake kit for the NC MX5. On that kit they use a rear 1-pc steel solid (non-vented) rotor from a Mazda6. The rotor is not legal for SP on an RX8 and then the kit also uses a Wilwood caliper for the narrower solid rotor that has has an integral e-brake feature with additional FM conversion parts to allow using the OE Mazda e-brake cables.
The same caliper can be purchased in a wider vented rotor version. So I contacted Keith in late 2017 and convinced him into selling me a partial brake kit less the calipers and rotors. I bought the necessary calipers from Wilwood then too, but then encountered the personal situation that laid me up until finally trying to finish it now.
At the time he seemed ok about selling the partial brake kit to other people, but isn’t interested in doing that anymore. So the only way to get the same setup as mine would to be to buy the full kit, try to sell or otherwise ditch the solid rotors/calipers, and replace those with vented calipers and rotors. It was my intention to share this with other RX8s, but the situation is going to be more expensive for anyone else who may want to pursue it. Otherwise you’ll just have to do it all custom on your own.
I have a tester loaned out to another member, but I can have him ship it to you next. Lmk.
Brake parts are supposed to be completed at the machine shop tomorrow morning. However, the person who helped me go down this path for the rear brakes; Keith at Flyin’ Miata, told me that they decided against pursuing this with anyone else. This started as the Flyin’ Miata rear LBBK brake kit for the NC MX5. On that kit they use a rear 1-pc steel solid (non-vented) rotor from a Mazda6. The rotor is not legal for SP on an RX8 and then the kit also uses a Wilwood caliper for the narrower solid rotor that has has an integral e-brake feature with additional FM conversion parts to allow using the OE Mazda e-brake cables.
The same caliper can be purchased in a wider vented rotor version. So I contacted Keith in late 2017 and convinced him into selling me a partial brake kit less the calipers and rotors. I bought the necessary calipers from Wilwood then too, but then encountered the personal situation that laid me up until finally trying to finish it now.
At the time he seemed ok about selling the partial brake kit to other people, but isn’t interested in doing that anymore. So the only way to get the same setup as mine would to be to buy the full kit, try to sell or otherwise ditch the solid rotors/calipers, and replace those with vented calipers and rotors. It was my intention to share this with other RX8s, but the situation is going to be more expensive for anyone else who may want to pursue it. Otherwise you’ll just have to do it all custom on your own.
I have a set of MCS Double adjustables for the RX-8. Rethinking my builds and this money could be used better elsewhere at the moment. Shocks were looked at by MCS 1-1.5 years back to make sure they are 100% fresh. Unused since then. Comes with some 2.5" springs also (need to check the rates). Used for a few seasons before my ownership (stickers are worn, one set of threads are chewed up), but the internals are like new.
I also have a fairly clean 2004 Jade Green chassis. Clean title. Engine starts cold, but smokes like a chimney (no duh). 68,000 miles. Sport with sunroof. I could get rid of it also for the right price. It'll likely come on Mustang rims.
Buy the two together and we could make a deal. Email randallprince@gmail.com for questions or offers.
Last edited by randallprince; 05-31-2019 at 02:26 PM.
I have a set of MCS Double adjustables for the RX-8. Rethinking my builds and this money could be used better elsewhere at the moment. Shocks were looked at by MCS 1-1.5 years back to make sure they are 100% fresh. Unused since then. Comes with some 2.5" springs also (need to check the rates). Almost new condition.
I also have a fairly clean 2004 Jade Green chassis. Clean title. Engine starts cold, but smokes like a chimney (no duh). 68,000 miles. Sport with sunroof. I could get rid of it also for the right price. It'll likely come on Mustang rims.
Buy the two together and we could make a deal. Email randallprince@gmail.com for questions or offers.
Well I’d take the front shocks, but would prefer to pursue the inverted rear instead. Doubtful you’d want to split them up.
Machinist called, guess I should have asked the hourly rate, lol. They did grind the rotor rings with a cross-cut finish though rather than straight cut in a lathe. Hopefully it will all bolt on now without needing any more adjustment, though I’ll still need to drill new holes in the front caliper mounts to drop them down to the smaller diameter non-Sport rotor size. Preferred to have the rotors mounted first and confirm the true measurement.
Was waffling on building my own IGN-1A ignition coil setup due to all the other stuff going on. Already had some of the parts including a SakeBomb wiring harness, but their lack of response to pm/email spurred me on. Think I came up with a nifty way to do it and started fabricating the coil mount last night. The previous intake mods make it easier to position the coils in a more ideal location and they’ll have short, direct leads to the plugs with them all being equal length. Kind of makes for easier replacement if a spark wire going bad even though I’ll have another full set making them from a universal V8 kit.
It slipped my worldly mind that this weekend I’ll be devoted to the Lord Jesus Christ. So unless I get some work done later today it will likely be next week before I start proceeding on the custom radiator shrouding and oil cooler plumbing.
I’ll have a pair of used RacingBrake 2-pc rear brake rotors available if anyone is interested. The offset for the OE caliper won’t work with my race caliper change. Feel free to PM or email me for further inquiry.
There are any number of ways to handle it, but broadcasting to all the other potential buyers wanting to buy it is a good way to have them go direct quickly and close the deal before you have any chance.
Came out pretty close on the front rotors, was a bit heavier on the rear. Need to trim the hats some to center them both up. After those final adjustment these should be valid weights:
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
11.95” OD x 0.95” wide 2-pc front rotor - 11.5 lbs each
11.89” OD x 0.71” wide 2-pc rear rotor - 7.9 lbs 8.2 lbs. each
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Always pleased to lose front weight because it’s always easier to get it off the rear, but will take every bit regardless. Of course there’s still more weight coming off the rear with the caliper conversion. I don’t want to break open the brake lines for removing the OE rear calipers until the new ones are all ready to bolt up. Will confirm the total reduction then.
I'm going to rotate my tires this weekend on my 09 and can take some measurements for you guys while I'm at it. Car is on stock motor mounts. Mounts probably have roughly 100K miles on them.
I'm assuming you want the measurements from the subframe up to brackets (H in picture, but on the car of course), but let me know if you need something else.
Here's measurements off of my 2009. It's an R3, but IIRC, there's no difference in the motor mounts, so would expect them to be representative. Motor is all stock, so no extra weight from a turbo or anything hanging off of it.
Driver (Left) side
Passenger (right) side
I probably should have looked at these on the computer instead of the little screen on my camera as my measurement technique was much better on the driver side. If necessary, I don't mind pulling the wheel to get a better passenger side measurement, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.
I'm going to rotate my tires this weekend on my 09 and can take some measurements for you guys while I'm at it. Car is on stock motor mounts. Mounts probably have roughly 100K miles on them.
I'm assuming you want the measurements from the subframe up to brackets (H in picture, but on the car of course), but let me know if you need something else.
Driver (left) side
Passenger (right) side
As I mentioned previously, my car is a 2009 and the mounts have about 100K miles on them. It's an R3, but if I remember correctly the motor mounts are not any different. Engine is all stock.
After looking at these on my PC screen, I'm not very happy with how the passenger side turned out. Let em know if you guys need a better picture and I can re-measure that side tomorrow.
This was my second attempt at posting this, so hopefully it goes thru this time and there aren't two posts.
You do not need the underbody plastics. Technically your bumper should be complete, but nobody is going to protest you for missing small things like that lip.
Originally Posted by Tamra
Everything John said, except (maybe) the part on the plastics. I remember looking into if I could swap our plastics for one of the aftermarket under trays (our plastics are in bad shape from so many cone hits before we had the front splitter on to protect them), and I remember thinking it wasn't legal for some reason. Feel free to fact check me on that as I don't have the rulebook open right now. However, the under tray plastics do help with airflow/cooling, so I would suggest you run them from a performance standpoint.
Not sure where in the SP rules it’s stated that underbody plastics like the bumper/engine plastic under-tray, front lip, etc. are permitted to be removed? I’d disagree until somebody shows the specific allowance being used for that interpretation.
However, it’s permitted for the front splitter to extend all the way back to the front of the wheel well openings. So you could place an aluminum/alternate material skin sheet over all of that area for protection; which it does work because the splitter I used in STX covered the same area, but otherwise the full OE body parts all have to fully be in place too unless specifically allowed to be removed.
On my STX splitter where the plastic clips are for the under-tray sides I instead used same diameter bolts with washers along with other bolts/washers to the side/fender front under-trays. It greatly strengthened all that area against cone damage. Then when they pulled the aero mod allowances back from ST it all started getting beat up again.
05-29-2019, 01:23 PM
