New to track days, suggestions for things to help improve the stock 8?
05-27-2012, 09:21 PM
#1
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New to track days, suggestions for things to help improve the stock 8?
As the title says, looking for advice with using the 8 as a track day car... It'd my daily driver, I've got a new set of tires/rims that are smaller then the stock 18's... They are 17s so I know it's not going to be a good starting point. But to for now it will help me see if I like doing this more often.. If so I'll be probably getting a set of bf Goodrich GeForce comp2
Suggestions comments are welcome please!
Suggestions comments are welcome please!
05-28-2012, 07:03 AM
#4
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Nice 17's rule for track days, good choice. Use search for untold number of "new to track" threads like yours. Best advice? Read a lot, then pay attention to the instruction and you'll be fine..enjoy!
05-28-2012, 09:56 AM
#6
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You are going to have fun... Focus on minimizing wear on your car and on safety: Idemitsu premix and fresh oil/filter, recent brake fluid and enough brake pad life, check oil and lug nut torque before every session and last but not least keep RPMs below 9,000.
Details on the many threads that Spin9k referred you to.
Details on the many threads that Spin9k referred you to.
05-28-2012, 12:53 PM
#8
Order I did things...
good brake fluid, brakes (HPS), adj shocks, adj sways, 17" rims for track tires (17" tires cheaper then 18" tires, physics advantage, track tires can be any 180 or lower treadwear extreme summer tire)
Order I would have done things if stuff was not worn out..
good brake fluid, brakes (HPS), 17" rims, adj sways, adj shocks.
Of course, maintenance first. I had a car with 65,000 miles, original shocks, original brakes. Tell us more about your car. I wish I had gotten tires earlier, but the car would not have supported it, and the wallet did not support it.
good brake fluid, brakes (HPS), adj shocks, adj sways, 17" rims for track tires (17" tires cheaper then 18" tires, physics advantage, track tires can be any 180 or lower treadwear extreme summer tire)
Order I would have done things if stuff was not worn out..
good brake fluid, brakes (HPS), 17" rims, adj sways, adj shocks.
Of course, maintenance first. I had a car with 65,000 miles, original shocks, original brakes. Tell us more about your car. I wish I had gotten tires earlier, but the car would not have supported it, and the wallet did not support it.
05-28-2012, 08:14 PM
#9
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My car has probably about 75,000 miles... We're in kilometers here 131k.
All the fluids were changed about a year ago, oil less the 1000miles was changed... Besides that...
I'm going to my mechanic for better break pads, and to check the tires out to see if they will be alright...ni bought them second hand from a friend.
All the fluids were changed about a year ago, oil less the 1000miles was changed... Besides that...
I'm going to my mechanic for better break pads, and to check the tires out to see if they will be alright...ni bought them second hand from a friend.
05-29-2012, 05:26 AM
#10
Change the brake fluid again, do not go longer than a year if you are on the track. Some clubs require that. Other than that, if the mechanic checks it out, enjoy. Talk to your instructor about what the car is doing that you do not like and want to change.
Have fun!
Have fun!
05-29-2012, 08:12 AM
#11
change the trans and diff oil--use redline mt 90 in the trans and just any good synthetic in the diff. I also recommend synthetic oil for track use ( oil temps can get a little high) at least a 40wgt. You may want to change it after the track event due to possible fuel contamination
Run the engine oil level about 1/8 inch below the full mark. Change the coolant to a 70% water and 30% coolant. Have a way to monitor your coolant temps--ultra gauge is a obd2 reader you can get at a local auto parts store for about $70. DOnt let the ect over 220F.
If you have a cat on the car--it will not last long on the track. Keep that in mind.
pre mix 1 oz per gallon with a GOOD premix llike protek, motul 800 etc.
Do not go on track with less than 1/2 tank of gas--just to be cautious of possible fuel starvation issues.
Then drive and enjoy and welcome to the addiction.
Run the engine oil level about 1/8 inch below the full mark. Change the coolant to a 70% water and 30% coolant. Have a way to monitor your coolant temps--ultra gauge is a obd2 reader you can get at a local auto parts store for about $70. DOnt let the ect over 220F.
If you have a cat on the car--it will not last long on the track. Keep that in mind.
pre mix 1 oz per gallon with a GOOD premix llike protek, motul 800 etc.
Do not go on track with less than 1/2 tank of gas--just to be cautious of possible fuel starvation issues.
Then drive and enjoy and welcome to the addiction.
05-29-2012, 09:08 AM
#12
Going to slightly disagree with OD- you need to run the oil sightly high at the track, as you will use more of it. In a 30 minutes session we can use almost a half quart of oil, so you MUST check your oil each and every time you come off the track and be prepared to top off, if not run slightly high. Running an external OMP adaptor so you no longer inject engine oil is fine, but until then you really really need to watch the oil level like a hawk. If it gets low your oil temps will spike and thats bad.
With a 2004-2008 trans you need to be very careful with your shifting, they do not like abuse and will fail. Redline MT-90 is a must. Most places will recommend MTL, but thats too light for a race car and will lead to synchro failure.
Use Water Wetter or Joe Gibbs CSP. Both work. Additionally, if your really going to track often in the warmer months, start saving for a radiator. MAKE 100% sure that ALL of the plastic shrouding for the rad is in place and in good shape or the car will overheat.
avoid "power mods". Modding the car for anything other than reliability at this point will cost you track time. Down the road as finances allow and you have some laps in, do a header, exhaust, RB RACE (not street) flash, and an intake, the RB one is good, there are others out there that work as well.
Recommend the Ohilins, Koni or Bilstein shocks over others like K&W, Tein, etc. The off the shelf Ohlins are very very good.
Do not spend money on a rear sway bar, upgrading it will usually cause handling issues you may have to chase for a long, long time. The caveat is if your autocrossing heavier rear bar may be needed, but not for the track.
Aquire a 3-piece front sway bar. Do not buy it from Speedsource or Mazdaspeed, both are about twice the price it should be. I can help you with that when your ready for one.
Get the car corner balanced and aligned at a RACE SHOP. Firestone or your local alignment rack guy is unlikely to care about getting it precisely aligned. These cars are very forgiving of alignment mistakes but the better your car setup is the more fun you will have and the more actual progress you will make as a driver.
Reliability when you start is the key, If your always working on the car or miss events because your waiting on parts to arrive, you miss those chances to learn and gain experience.
With a 2004-2008 trans you need to be very careful with your shifting, they do not like abuse and will fail. Redline MT-90 is a must. Most places will recommend MTL, but thats too light for a race car and will lead to synchro failure.
Use Water Wetter or Joe Gibbs CSP. Both work. Additionally, if your really going to track often in the warmer months, start saving for a radiator. MAKE 100% sure that ALL of the plastic shrouding for the rad is in place and in good shape or the car will overheat.
avoid "power mods". Modding the car for anything other than reliability at this point will cost you track time. Down the road as finances allow and you have some laps in, do a header, exhaust, RB RACE (not street) flash, and an intake, the RB one is good, there are others out there that work as well.
Recommend the Ohilins, Koni or Bilstein shocks over others like K&W, Tein, etc. The off the shelf Ohlins are very very good.
Do not spend money on a rear sway bar, upgrading it will usually cause handling issues you may have to chase for a long, long time. The caveat is if your autocrossing heavier rear bar may be needed, but not for the track.
Aquire a 3-piece front sway bar. Do not buy it from Speedsource or Mazdaspeed, both are about twice the price it should be. I can help you with that when your ready for one.
Get the car corner balanced and aligned at a RACE SHOP. Firestone or your local alignment rack guy is unlikely to care about getting it precisely aligned. These cars are very forgiving of alignment mistakes but the better your car setup is the more fun you will have and the more actual progress you will make as a driver.
Reliability when you start is the key, If your always working on the car or miss events because your waiting on parts to arrive, you miss those chances to learn and gain experience.
Last edited by d walker; 05-29-2012 at 09:11 AM.
05-29-2012, 11:59 AM
#13
Momentum Keeps Me Going
OD & DW, a lot of good suggestions both, but is it possible you are going a bit over the top as good advice for a person taking a car 1st time to track? Many of the mods you're speaking of are for advanced track drivers or outright racing, or advanced modding for those w/a need and means to implement them. Not sure why this seems to happen in almost every thread where someone says, "I'd like to go to the track, help me out.", but a majority of these suggestions/advice are NOT needed for a happy and successful track day.
In fact, IMO the better advice is take the stock car with fewest mods to the track and learn to use it as is, of course making sure all requisite OEM safety items are checked and adjusted as needed. Once the OEM limits/deficiencies are realized/exposed thru advancing skill, then mods will be meaningful and helpful to improve driving expertise. Modding for modding sake before when starting makes it difficult to appreciate what the car's inherent capabilities are and how to use them, and is NOT the (best) way to become a better driver IMHO.
In fact, IMO the better advice is take the stock car with fewest mods to the track and learn to use it as is, of course making sure all requisite OEM safety items are checked and adjusted as needed. Once the OEM limits/deficiencies are realized/exposed thru advancing skill, then mods will be meaningful and helpful to improve driving expertise. Modding for modding sake before when starting makes it difficult to appreciate what the car's inherent capabilities are and how to use them, and is NOT the (best) way to become a better driver IMHO.
05-29-2012, 02:38 PM
#14
++ @ Spin,
But, OD is likely right about rear sway bar when you get to it. If I still had mine, I would probably be putting it back on. Basically you want to feel the car move at speeds that allow you to learn to pay attention to the movement as opposed to going oh $hit, oh $hit. You then dial out the excess movement with mods, and learn to feel and understand what is left. And, repeat as necessary.
But, maintenance and safety are first. A good brake fluid (ATE 200, MOSUL) is a must. Fading brakes give you a warning (smell, feel), boiled fluid laughs at your butt as you go off.
Tell us what track, there may be other recommendations or offers to group up...
But, OD is likely right about rear sway bar when you get to it. If I still had mine, I would probably be putting it back on. Basically you want to feel the car move at speeds that allow you to learn to pay attention to the movement as opposed to going oh $hit, oh $hit. You then dial out the excess movement with mods, and learn to feel and understand what is left. And, repeat as necessary.
But, maintenance and safety are first. A good brake fluid (ATE 200, MOSUL) is a must. Fading brakes give you a warning (smell, feel), boiled fluid laughs at your butt as you go off.
Tell us what track, there may be other recommendations or offers to group up...
05-29-2012, 05:55 PM
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I'm running synthetic 5w20 like its recommended... I recently changed my ignition coils due to moisture problems, and still now if I idol at low revs it hiccups down bellow 1000rpm... When I'm gunning it I've got no problems though! I'll have to check my break fluids though.
05-29-2012, 07:05 PM
#16
5w20 is not really "good enough" for the temps the RX8 will see on track. We run a Redline "straight" 30w race oil, and I would recommend Redline 5w40-ish oil for your car on track.
I prefer Performance Frictions brake fluid, but really anything will do nicely. Currently we are using Wilwood brake fluid without any issues at all.
I prefer Performance Frictions brake fluid, but really anything will do nicely. Currently we are using Wilwood brake fluid without any issues at all.
05-29-2012, 07:13 PM
#17
In fact, IMO the better advice is take the stock car with fewest mods to the track and learn to use it as is, of course making sure all requisite OEM safety items are checked and adjusted as needed. Once the OEM limits/deficiencies are realized/exposed thru advancing skill, then mods will be meaningful and helpful to improve driving expertise. Modding for modding sake before when starting makes it difficult to appreciate what the car's inherent capabilities are and how to use them, and is NOT the (best) way to become a better driver IMHO.
I can see where you say this, but I will strongly dis-agree. Having gone this route myself, all I accomplished was to wear out my street car and relearn how to drive when I got into a race car.
IF you want to RACE, go buy a race car and learn to race. You will be so far ahead of the HDPDE/trackday crowd its not funny. You will also spend less money and have more fun.
If you want to tour around a track with your buddies, then your streetcar is fine, just understand that by driving a car with so many compromises out on the track you will learn bad habits that can take a long time to get rid of should you choose to go further and get serious and go racing.
Honestly, if you want to race the best moeny you can spend is to go buy a Formula Vee or Formula First and go race with those guys. You will not spend a lot of money and you will have some great racing, learn a ton about how to drive, and yes, you can even tow one behind an RX8, if you had to.
05-29-2012, 07:23 PM
#18
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^ 100% great insight. But the point is here we're discussing the OPs "using the 8 as a track day car... It'd my daily driver" so I had logically constrained the advice? dunno..
What you say is your experince... and certainly doesn't need defending. But it's for another discussion. I didn't realize we were discussing "IF you want to RACE".
What you say is your experince... and certainly doesn't need defending. But it's for another discussion. I didn't realize we were discussing "IF you want to RACE".
05-29-2012, 09:49 PM
#22
thanks for coming in dwalker--yall listen guys he knows his stuff.
I would like to discuss the oil level issue though. What we have seen happen many times with DD cars once they get on track is that they blow back oil through the intake. Once we lowered our engine oil a little--it went away. It probably has to do with a race prepped car having a better "crankcase" ventilation or maybe not getting as much blowby? IDK for sure. In a 20-25 minute session for a beginner he shouldnt use that much oil? Guess for the first session he could just watch to see if blowby occurs in his car.
Let me see if I can kinda list the stuff for the op--its gets to running together when everyone just posts?
1- good tires--increase the tire pressure a little--talk to the local track drivers
2- good alignment--this helps track and street and tire wear
3- the right type of brake fluid and a better set than oem of brake pads
4- run at least a 40 wgt synthetic oil? ( thoughts?) check your oil after every session
5- have a way to monitor your coolant temps--our oem gauge sucks--dont go over 220F
6- keep gas in the car--dont go out with just 1/4 tank
7- really really like to change the trans and diff lubes to whats mentioned--they get hotter than some may realize
8- dont shift like you are in a drag race
9- keep the rpms less than 9K
10 if you have a cat on the car it will not last many track weekends
11- pre mix as mentioned.
Does that kinda sum it up for a first timer?
Remember dude , drive safe, drive smooth and the speed will come on its own.
Guess I am going to have to change my name to geezerdragger--i do kinda like that
I would like to discuss the oil level issue though. What we have seen happen many times with DD cars once they get on track is that they blow back oil through the intake. Once we lowered our engine oil a little--it went away. It probably has to do with a race prepped car having a better "crankcase" ventilation or maybe not getting as much blowby? IDK for sure. In a 20-25 minute session for a beginner he shouldnt use that much oil? Guess for the first session he could just watch to see if blowby occurs in his car.
Let me see if I can kinda list the stuff for the op--its gets to running together when everyone just posts?
1- good tires--increase the tire pressure a little--talk to the local track drivers
2- good alignment--this helps track and street and tire wear
3- the right type of brake fluid and a better set than oem of brake pads
4- run at least a 40 wgt synthetic oil? ( thoughts?) check your oil after every session
5- have a way to monitor your coolant temps--our oem gauge sucks--dont go over 220F
6- keep gas in the car--dont go out with just 1/4 tank
7- really really like to change the trans and diff lubes to whats mentioned--they get hotter than some may realize
8- dont shift like you are in a drag race
9- keep the rpms less than 9K
10 if you have a cat on the car it will not last many track weekends
11- pre mix as mentioned.
Does that kinda sum it up for a first timer?
Remember dude , drive safe, drive smooth and the speed will come on its own.
Guess I am going to have to change my name to geezerdragger--i do kinda like that
Last edited by olddragger; 05-29-2012 at 09:54 PM.
05-30-2012, 10:11 PM
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Yea, I don't plan on racing it thaaaaat hard, but lapping vigorously 
So driving at hi temperatures would necessitate the thicker oil?
I've never had problems with the 20 on the road... we have wonky weather here... Sometimes it's 75... And the drops to 60..
Driving my car with 5w40 synthec day to day will not give me man problems?
I've always read that thicker oil was recommended, but was always worried about dropping it in my engine.
So driving at hi temperatures would necessitate the thicker oil?
I've never had problems with the 20 on the road... we have wonky weather here... Sometimes it's 75... And the drops to 60..
Driving my car with 5w40 synthec day to day will not give me man problems?
I've always read that thicker oil was recommended, but was always worried about dropping it in my engine.