conevadr

I’ve been autoxing for several years, but almost exclusively in AWD and FWD. The time has come to give RWD a try, and I’ve narrowed down my choices to the Solstice and RX-8. I’m looking for feedback from people that have driven both competitively. I’ll probably spend the first season in our local street tire class with minimal Stock prep. After that, the Solstice may get the Z0K/trailer treatment on stickies (I hate changing tires at the event). The RX-8 could also go that way but also has STX as an option. I’m not out to be super competitive, just looking to have fun and improve.
Specifically about the cars…

The length, width, weight, and wheelbase are slightly different. Is there a significant difference in feel? Is one more nimble, or forgiving? Do they handle different elements equally?

The power curves are similar, with the RX-8 having more top end? Is there a noticeable difference in power? Do they launch well? Does the diff in either have a problem with wheelspin on corner exit?

While I’m on street tires, ABS will see more action. Any concerns with either?

They’ll get replaced eventually, but how are the stock shocks? Is the balance good enough that it can be manipulated effectively with an aggressive but streetable alignment and tire pressures?

What about visibility? I’m rather tall, but visibility is always a concern. Is the size of A pillar, mirror, hood, or anything else an issue with cone spotting?

Any other comments to differentiate the dynamic driving experience between the two?

All input is appreciated!


George M

Flashwing

Hey George,

I know you're looking for input on the Solstice and the RX8 from someone who has driven both. I've driven the RX8 during about a dozen autocross events as well as watching many others do the same in various different classes.

One constant element I have noticed is the RX8 dominates in it's stock form. You tend to suffer with more modifications because other classes contain much more powerful vehicles including AWD. Still, you can get away with swapping in Mazdaspeed parts and still maintain your stock class IIRC.

I'll work backwards for you:

Visibility with the RX8 forward and side to side is very good. There are various blind spots in the back but I've never had problems locating cones or having the A pillar obstruct my view.

I've found the LSD to work pretty well though I'm still exploring the limits of my own vehicle so perhaps others can comment as to the pro's and con's of our LSD setup.

The RX8's braking system is hands down one of the best you'll find from the factory. There is plenty of braking power and the ABS system has always reacted well. You might be surprised that you stay out of ABS most of the time. Brakes are something I've never had "too little" of with the RX8.

I imagine the Solstice will not have as linear of a power curve as the RX8 due to the rotary engine design. The rotary does provide smooth power delivery and eliminates some of the jerkeyness you might find entering and exiting the power band on a piston motor. I don't recall the power numbers of the Solstice but the RX8 delivers about 215 hp at the flywheel with about 180whp to in rare cases 200whp.

I've found the RX8 to handle in a very forgiving fashion. No matter how much I threw at it, it kept coming back for more. If you get too hot into a turn all that's required is giving the car an inch and it comes right back while I've seen other cars be unable to recover.

In all, it's been an excellent autocross car! I hope some of that helps!

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Harvey (Zoom4Three) would be a good person to answer your questions as he's trophied at Nats in both a CS Solstice and BS RX-8.

JantzenRX-8

iTrader: (9)

Not having any autox experience at all here is my two cents. I test drove a Solstice this past weekend because i have a friend in the market. It handled like absolute crap and power delivery was not nearly as smooth and predictable as an RX8. I've seen some pretty impressive modified Solstices but in stock form i was not impressed whatsoever.

But then again i was not auto crossing it and who am I? So i'd listen to ^^^

PedalFaster

Solstice in autocross trim handles much better than the RX-8 -- the latter handles predictably but lists like a barge.

The RX-8 is significantly faster than the base Solstice in a straight line, yet the Solstice is as fast or faster around an autocross course. You do the math on where it's making the time.

Zoom4Three

I borrowed/rented a Solstice ZOK for Nationals in 06' (Thanks Miles!) and purchased a RX8 for the 2007 season. Both cars are easy to set-up and drive. IMHO- Both cars are easy to adapt too and inspire driver confidence with R-compound tires and a autocross alignment. The prime difference between the cars is front end grip and top end "legs". The Solstice front camber adjustment allows for camber settings beyond -2.5 degrees. Combine that with limited body roll and 8" wide wheels and the Solstice is nearly a Street Prepared car out of the box. The difference in corner entry to mid-corner grip is significant versus the RX-8 which is limited to front camber in the -1.5 to -1.8 range for most and has more body roll.

Both cars put down what power they have very well, but the RX-8 pulls better when you can stretch it's legs in second gear. The gearing and rev limiter also allow the RX-8 a few more MPH before hitting the limiter which can be a signifcant benefit on some courses.

If you are tall or long in the torso, head room can be an issue in the RX-8.

The driving experience is different between them in many small ways, but both are "fun" and can reward you with the "shakes" after a quick run. I can't say the same for many FWD or AWD cars I have driven. If you have the opportunity, drive them both (set up for Solo) before making a decision. Both cars character changes dramatically from stock with street tires to R-comps with an aggressive alignment.

For me the decision was easy, I use the car as a daily driver and need to haul my kids around on occassion. It met my personal needs the best. The Solstice is a fun car to drive and Solo, but the engine is just a typical GM 4 cylinder powering an awesome chassis and the lack of utility was a deal breaker.

Chris Harvey
2006 C-stock Solstice 4th Place Solo2 Nat'ls, 2nd place ProSolo Finale
2007 B-stock RX8 4th Place Solo2 Nat'ls
2008 B-stock RX8 4th Place Solo2 Nat'ls

mwood

I'll defer to Chris' comments, in general, as I've only done a total of two runs in the Solstice...but...The Sol has much better low end grunt and will be more rewarding to drive on most local autocross courses (read: tighter courses), the RX8's lack of torque can be a really frustrating characteristic. The Sol also is more neutral corner off and gives more options in terms of steering with the throttle, due to the front camber, rear geometry and better controlled body roll. If we're talking a straight autocross application, the Sol is the "better" car.

However, the Mazda wins hands down as a daily driver...well, except for the gas mileage. Besides the extra two seats, it also has a proper trunk, whereas the Sol has, basically, room for a soft duffel (as long as it is very small). The RX8's interior is also just better, with better materials, styling (subjective), switchgear etc. A Z0K'ed Sol also rides very poorly, with very minimal ground clearance...the RX8, even with the Konis full stiff, rides acceptably. Of course, the Sol lets you put the top down, which on certain days pays off bigger than all other considerations

Question is, if you are leaning towards the Sol, why not the GXP? Used or new, its only a couple of thousand dollar premium....speaking of used, I'm seeing low mile RX8's out here in the $12-14k range...hard to beat that "bang for the buck".

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Chris covered it.... But also keep in mind that in 2010 they may both end up in the same class, so don't pick based on one being in CS and the other in BS.

Have you considered a 2007 Mazda MX-5 MS-R? All the speed of the Solstice, and you get a trunk.

RK

iTrader: (1)

I would be particularly concerned with this. Overall height isn't that important but make sure you sit in the 8 with a helmet on to verify that you fit. It is tight in there. Also you will almost certainly want to stay away from any 8 configurations with a sunroof as that reduces the headspace significantly.

No concerns with the 8's ABS on street tires. If you're planning on running STX you can make a few adjustments to reduce sway that you can't do in stock form that should help even out the drives between the cars. The advantage in better alignment flexibility for the Sol won't matter to you much if you're looking for the magicical DD/AutoX mix alignment. Check out the stickied thread on this forum and you'll see contentment from novice/intermediate autox'rs with less agressive alignments.

Really tho in the end I'll put money on the sunroof and DD experience mattering more than the AutoX experience. Both cars seem to be experiencing plenty of success in that arena.

conevadr

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'll see if I can fill in some of the blanks...

Autox capability is a significant part of the purchase decision for me, but not the entire picture. However, I'm focusing on the autox info here because those are the questions where those with experience can best answer.

I'm 6'5" and well over 200lbs. If I go with the RX-8, I'll probably eventually go to STX and deal with the seat swap. For stock in our local street tire class I'll look to have the seat modified to give more headroom. I realize that it isn't strictly stock class legal, but as my weight more than makes up for it I'm sure my competitors won't mind once I check with them. I haven't tried the latest generation, but typically I don't fit in Miata's.

It sounds like the additional setup range of the Sol may give it some advantages in some specific areas, although the brakes on the RX-8 may help balance out some of that on corner entry. It also sounds like the RX-8 drives like a smaller car which helps with the transitions and slaloms. I'm surprised that no one mentioned the big butt on the Solstice.

I suspect that any of the suspension softness will be dealt with when/if I get the car to STX trim. I'm hoping that on street tires and stock suspension that the weight moving will be managable. I currently autox in a full prep AS EVO so I'm very familiar with weight shifting around on the suspension.

In my region (Finger Lakes), we have both small local courses, and a large runway setup (Seneca Army Depot). It sounds like the RX-8 will handle the larger more open layout better. But how accessible is 1st gear on the RX-8? I would think it might be useful on the smaller tighter courses.

I'm not particularly concerned about stock classing. The paxes are close and at least for the first year I'll probably be competing against the other street tire drivers anyway.

I'm particularly interested in the comment from Chris on the character difference in going to a full stock setup. Is that mostly from the alignment or the tires in this case? I've done a couple of years each on streets and stickies, and I'm also comfortable with a rather aggressive alignment on the street. I'm hoping that the street tires will be a decent match with the stock suspension, still offering good transitional ability and corner balance with the somewhat limited grip not overwhelming the stock springs/shocks/bars.

Gas mileage and other convenience type items also isn't a concern for me. My commute is only about five minutes, and this will be a summer only car.

It is good to hear that Mazda stands behind its racers.

The GXP is an awesome package, but I'm looking forward to dropping back a notch so that I can better exploit the limits of the car as a better match to my own limits. As the saying goes... it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I find the EVO to be overkill for the street, and the GXP is probably the same.

Thanks again for all input. It is really helpful.


GeorgeM

Zoom4Three

George -

John Rogers and I ran my RX8 at the Finger Lakes Single Course ProSolo last year, held at Seneca AD and the car worked very well on the open course design. In fact it was one of my favorite events we attended all last year.

First Gear - It's rarely needed on the courses we run, but accessibilty is not a problem in either car if you can heel and toe downshift efficently.

Character Change (stock vs solo2 prep) - Tires are the biggest factor here, the RX8 balance changes less. Adding R-comps just raises the grip level bar and inspires more confidence in transition. The Solstice on stock tires is more of an exercise in frustration, mainly because the stock Goodyears suck more than the OE Bridgestone or Dunlop on the RX8. It's very easy to step over the limit and produce large amounts of understeer. Because of the tire issue, the car is slow to recover. Add in a good dose of negative camber and I'm sure this gets better, but the real cure would be a top level extreme performance tire like the RE-01R, Direzza Sport Z1 and the right camber/pressure settings.

Both cars are easy on tires, you can expect 70-100+ runs from Hoosiers or Kuhmos with diligent rotation front to rear to even out wear. IMHO- The fun factor doubles and real character of the car emerges when you add the R-comps and an alignment, it's worth the trouble. The cars work fine on stock shocks and R-comps, you will just find them more confidence inspiring with Koni Sports or the ZOK Bilsteins.

Chris H

balefire

iTrader: (2)

This is moot if your deadset on STX RX8, but if you choose BS, its very nice to fit the R-compounds in the back seat. Trailer / support vehicle for 2 seat car R compounds was a huge pain.

More important than your absolute height (6'5") is your torso height. This whole discussion may be useless if your torso does not allow you to even come close to fitting in the non sunroof RX8. An STX seat swap will only get you a few inches.