Kaliken

Hey Guys:

I am going to be heading off to Buttonwillow raceway for a single day of HPDE. While getting my car inspected they marked my brake pads with only about 3.5mm left on them. My question is will that be enough? Buttonwillow is typically pretty tough on pads and I would hate to destroy my rotors.

Thanks for any input.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Keep in mind that besides the fact that you could use up the pad and get into the backing plate you have very little material left to dissipate the heat, so you could get brake fade quickly.

If you are interested in some serious track pads I have a set of brand new Hawk Blue 9012s, front and rear.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/motor...unds/index.php

I used a set of these at the SOW and they rocked. After the track day you just take them off and go back to stock ones for everyday use.

SouthFL

Put new pads on.
Hawk HP Plus and Carbotech Panther Plus are both decent HPDE/street use pads.
Don't forget to flush/ bleed brakes with decent fluid.

Kaliken

Thanks for the info guys. It looks like I will be buying some new pads.

good point on the heatsink Jason. I had completely forgot about that. Unfortunately I don't think I am ready for a fully dedicated track pad yet. Hopefully in the future I will be ready for the full race tires and track pads.

I was recommended by a friend to see if they make the Ferodo DS2500 for the RX-8. Any thoughts?

How much improvement will I see with any of these(Hawk, Carotech,Ferodo) over the stock OEM ones? I have found the brakes to be pretty solid already.

Thanks

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I'd put Hawk Ceramic pads on there, similar to HP+ without the brake dust or noise

SouthFL

The stock pads are decent (but they're not track pads).
The difference the other abovementioned trackable compound pads offer is that they will sustain heat without fading. It's not that they improve stopping distance, it's simply that they will hold up to the sustained heat cycling on track without turning to goo when hot then crumbling when the cool again.

SouthFL

With the same on track sustainability as HP Plus?

tmak26b

I used the HP+, hated it. They don't grip as good as the Carbotech and they abuse my rotors even more.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I don't recommend HP+ or the Carbotech equivalent, both are old technology

http://www.hawkperformance.com/perfo...%20Ceramic.pdf

He's running HPDE's, not going Grand Am racing ....

SouthFL

Running HPDE's is pretty darned serious (in fact, when I go lapping there are some Grand Am teams on track with me who use the track days for testing). You want to use a track proven compound.
Dust and noise shouldn't be considered a hinderance, as that's what track pads do- dust and noise.

A beginner can be just as hard (or even more taxing) on brakes than an intermediate or advanced driver, as a beginner will most probably brake for much longer brake zones than an advanced driver, putting heat for longer periods of time into the pad.

The HP Plus is a love or hate comound. People either love it or hate it. I like it, as it has a decent initial bite and can sustain heat pretty decently. It's a much better pad suited to our RX8's than it was on my heavier, underbraked Stage II WRX (where it would fade on me if I was undisciplined with brake zones).

Done 2 lapping days in the RX8 with HP Plus with much much success. I leave 'em on for the street and haven't had any complaints. They dust less and make less noise on RX8's than they do on WRX's.

Brake pad compound choice is subjective. I wouldn't cheat on compound for track days however.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

HPDE's don't even come close to a sprint race type use. The ceramic pads hold up to HDPE track use and are significantly better than OE in every regard, but aren't a race pad. They're also relatively inexpensive. I'm sure he doesn't want to deal with black dust, burned on crud, and loud screeching at every stop sign with his daily driver.

Try and remember that this all started with him asking how much material thickness the OE pads should have for the next HPDE

http://www.racingbrake.com/RX8_FRONT.../pd1009-13.htm

http://www.racingbrake.com/RX8_REAR_.../pd1008-13.htm

SouthFL

In an HPDE one can predict what his brake zone will be like- a clear one (for the most part). Otherwise, I've seen some pretty damn hard running on track out there. Lots of Ferrrari Challenge teams, Goldin Bros, Roar, etc. use the the lapping days I attend for testing- but that's besides the point.
Because this guy is a beginner, he should be on a trackable compound as he'll be riding his brakes for extended periods- putting much heat into them.

That's my 2 cents. Cheers.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I would change them.....as Ulllose said....thin bad + poor heat transfer.

I have gone through a new set of front pads in one day...it was almost 4 hrs of track time...on a brake intensive track.......so 1/2 or less wont cut it

Buy a set of track compound pads and learn to swap them out.......otherwise you will spend all your time at a brake shop getting work done if you get serious about the HPDE days.

I burned of 5 sets of front pads and 3 rears last year.....

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

guess I'm out-voted

Kaliken

well it looks like I will be getting new pads. I did not think that 3.5mm was going to be enough.

As for the pad type thanks for all the comments. Given the comments and doing some searches it looks like I will be having a tough decision on what to buy.

I think I am leaning to the HP+ given the fact that they are trackable yet can be daily driven (though with more dust and squeals) . And if they just get too annoying daily driving then I guess I have found my first set of track only pads!

Thanks again for the comments.

L8APEX

I saw these on their site, and have thought about trying them out. My OEM pads are done, and I need to get some replacements. I might try these out on the track at my next event, and see which I like better, these or the HP+. The HP+ can't stay on my car very long. They go on a couple days before and event, and come off as soon as possible after one. They are rough on rotors IMO. They are great on the track, I think they have good bite, and hold up well to heavy braking. It will be interesting to try the Ceramics, and see the difference, if any is noticeable. It would be nice to spend less time changing brake pads. Every time you change them out, the shims loose their resistance to bending, the clips in the calipers get loose, and at some point all of that has to be replaced.

tmak26b

Carbotech is ceramic, so what?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

and I was buying ceramic pads 10 yrs ago, big whoop, I never said they were superior because they're ceramic

L8APEX

hey Team, do you have personal experience with these new Hawk Ceramics? I know you are a Racing Brake fan, just curious if you have used these pads, and what your impressions were if you have.

fullsmoke

Ditto. I used the HP+ in my 7. Ate my rotors and created dust storms. I'd like to try something different this time...

FS

SouthFL

What are you guys doing with HP Plus that kills rotors? Define kills rotors? Done about a half dozen track events on this compound with about a year's worth of street driving (between two different cars) and I see expected rotor wear with no cracking or striations. Even pad wear also. I get about 2-3 events out of a pad.

fullsmoke

I'm throwing rocks between the rotor and the pads to help the stopping distance.

Joking aside, I swapped the rotors out of my 7 and decided to throw on the HP+ (this was all for the track). I knew the original thickness of the rotor and after the event, while I was taking the HP+ pads off, I measured the rotor thickness. Can't remember the #s but I remember I was surprised.

Realistically, I doubt anyone can "feel" that the HP+ are causing THAT much more wear. Plus, I was just exaggerrating in my previous post.

FS

L8APEX

no cracking or anything like that, it just wore them out pretty quick. After 4 events, my rotors went from almost new, to not being usable anymore. They had a very pronounced lip on the outside edge. I don't mind, it is part of tracking the car, things wear out faster, and things break, no big deal. The bigger issue for me, is swapping the pads out twice for each event, once to put on the HP+, and once to take them off. If I buy the ceramics, and try them out at a track that is not brake intensive, and don't like them, I will go back to the HP+. But I am willing to try them out.

tmak26b

No it's not, try other pads. I used 6 sets of race pads on my rotors and did 33K miles of street driving. As soon as i slapped the HP+ on, the rotor started grooving

L8APEX

you lost me, please clarify.

and I have noticed some grooving in the rotors from the HP+. But not terrible. I also get very even wear, drivers side compared to passenger side.