Squeaky and the can damge the rotors too.

 

Uh, just checked my records, and so far I have two days on Summit Shenandoah, one day on Summit Main, two days on VIR Grand Equalizer, and two days on VIR Full and the HP+ pads on the front still have about 1/3-1/4 of the pad left (hard to see with the wheels on). That's seven days of driving it like I stole it on Hoosier R6 tires without burning down the pads. So either you have mad skillz (yo!), or you're doing it wrong.

I was out-braking all kinds of hardcore machinery on VIR this past weekend. I just posted a video to gootube putting the beat-down on a race-prepped, instructor-driven E30 M3. I understand people want to use the same high-dollar "racing" gear as the pros like Eric, but most people are just wasting their money. I'm using cheap-*** stock Centric rotors, HP+ pads, and Castrol brake fluid from Walmart and kicking race car ***. Spend smart, people!


So... they don't work way better?

 

Uh, yep! Same here (though the rotors are OE).
I get most of a season out of HP+, which is 6 to 8 two day track events and 1/2 dozen autocross days.

 

Most of the tracks I run are twisty with short straights...no time for the brakes to cool....the limiting factor for the heavy cars is the brakes.....I find the same as you...going by much "faster" cars

I had a set of HP+ melt off in about 6 hours of track time....they overheated badly..and they disappear like crazy at that temperature. That was one day...wasn't too happy about that

Each to his own environment I guess....

Or else you have mad skills and I brake too much

 

Arizona tracks are very technical AND typically have a straight just long enough to end in a ferocious braking zone.
I'm running Inde this weekend and the Firebird Main/Bondurant combined in two weeks - both are 20+ corners and two straights which, if they do cool the brakes, only pound them again immediately.

 

IMHO - HP+ is not a track pad. I have used all kind of pads and I think even stock worked better then HP+. I decided to give HP+ a try after reading some good stuff on them here. The last pads I used was XP8's at both Mosport and Mid Ohio (at Mosport you only really brake hard for 5a). The HP+ produced allot of noise and dust on the street and were overhearing/fading badly on the track (at one point I even got black flagged as the pads faded so bad I had pass on the inside at 5a at Mosport or risk a collision). In addition to being ***** on the track they also manage to be pretty aggressive on the rotors. What makes this whole thing even worse is that I wasn't even running my usual Koni Spec Hoosiers.

After going through this horrible experience I have done some additional research on them and found allot of people with similar experiences. My guess is that they are probably best suited for autocross.

 

It's too bad about your experience.
I'm on my 4th set in two years and they are fantastic track pads.

They are NOT good Auto-X pads since they don't get hot enough in the 30 - 60 seconds you are on course. HPS is better for that.

 

^ I'd agree with you CB -> I agree with you. The HP+ are essentially another OEM pad experience on track. I bought them and just wondered.. "I paid money for ?...?" and couldn't feel or experience anything different and certainly not anything better. I then tried selling them, only slightly used on this board for $10 + shipping....for a set of pads for all 4 wheels.

Guess what ... no takers! People are too smart around here I guess... they already knew what I had to pay to learn... they are just everyday adequate street/unrewarding track pads.

 

^ still got em? i'll buy for 10 bucks haha

 

...sorry...went in the trash.

 

sad days...

 

Either they weren't actually HP+ pads, or something is horribly wrong with your car or your driving.

I just spent two days at VIR on Hoosier R6 tires, turning 2:20 laps (not slow for <200 HP) with no fade, no excessive wear, no problems. The pads already have many track days on them and I think they are good for probably three or four more full days.

I wonder if you and spin9k actually got HPS or something else when you thought you had HP+? There is no way HP+ pads will stop worse than stock pads or fade unless there is something else seriously wrong.

Of course they produce noise and dust on the street - they are track pads. But I like them on the street because I can make them squeal like stuck pigs and scare the hell out of people at stop lights.

 

Hawk is doing some really great stuff--i have seen Eric and Jay in action at Rd Atlanta.
He showed me a set AFTER an enduance race and it was really a defining moment. Amazing.
I have always ran carbo tech--always. But from what I have seen, my next set will be Hawks.

My problem is overbraking--it happens so damn fast.
Unless you data collect you will swear you are entering turn 7 (for ex) at Rd Atlanta at 60-70mph. But look at your data and you find you overbraked down to 47!
Maybe Eric--when he has time--could talk to us about the braking system maintainence
for tracking?
I think maybe some do not pay enough attention to things like proper caliper sliding pins, proper lubricant etc?
OD

 

I tried two sets...from 2 different suppliers...so I doubt that was it

Personal preference and driving style obviously have something to do with it

Denny...it sure isn't maintenance from my end and there are no sliders in 4 piston calipers

 

Go here and look how much deeper I was carrying speed into the corners than the guy I was chasing. This is with HP+/HPS F/R pads and cheap-*** rotors on an otherwise completely stock brake system:

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/rx-8-vs-race-prepped-bmw-e30-m3-204054/

OMMFG the 8 has great brakes!

 

I hate HP+ pads, old technology, there are so many better options now

 

I agree with TeamRX8. Everyone uses HP+ simply because everyone on the internet recommends it even though they have never tried it or tried anything else. They are not bad pads, but there are superior pads out there for the price.

I forgot who I sold my Carbotech XP10 to, but he can probably tell you how much better they are.

 

I'm sorry to say that this is an unfair comparison.
The HP+ are a street pad that can keep up with some hard braking at the track, xp10 are dedicated track pads ( http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp )
You should compare those with Hawk's racing compounds!

 

You hate them because they are old? That's stupid. Hate them if they don't work, except that they dowork, and work very well on the RX-8.

 

Well he just autoX a stripped rx8, it may be a temperature related issue! Heating the brakes up of a lightweight car in a parking lot may be difficult!

 

Baloney. Have you used HP+ pads and tried others? I have. Including Carbotechs (terrible pedal feel). I've seen what happens to EBC pads on other RX-8s driven by novices. I keep coming back to the Hawks because they are cheap and they are very good. When comparing pad life, stopping power, and cost , I haven't found a better pad yet. I do keep looking.

 

This is getting funny now Since this is a HAWK thread this is what I would do if you are reading this for information and haven't tried any of them for track pads

HP+ are worth a try as a place to start.......if they work for you that's great...if they don't...try the HT-10 or DSC60's

Arguing about brake pads is silly..everyone likes a different feel and performance

 

I agree with you, but do keep in mind that HP+ makes a lot of noise on the street (not as much) and dust nearly as much. The XP10 can heat up just as fast as the HP+ on the street, so it is really that different?

Yes, I have tried Cobalt Friction/Hawk HPS/Hawk HP+/Carbotech XP8/XP10. The XP10 wins by far in stopping distance and heat resistance. Also I just want to say that I don't mind the HP+, but I would never rate it above the Carbotech 8 or 10. Price I don't think they are much different.

HPS is garbage for street or track use, hate them with a passion.

 

I too am a big fan of Carbotech XP10 or XP12 for track use (have no direct autocross experience running anything other than stock pads). I had not tried them until Mazda gave me several free sets and now I'm hooked.

Raybestos also makes a race pad (available through Porterfield) that works really well also and has great pad life. Not really better than the Carbotech but much less expensive.

 

I like the fact that the HP+ clearly works and the problem is quickly diagnosed - it is either there is something wrong with the car, the driver is crap or there is a conspiracy and we all got cheap Chinese fakes instead.

It also clear that carrying more speed into a corner than a guy driving a superior car clearly proves one of the above points.

I am going to try and sell this info to some pro races, maybe they will make the switch to HP+.

Or you can fly down to Mosport (where you don't really need brakes) and we will have a comparison between the pretty compromised HP+ and some proper pads from Carbotech, Cobalt as well as proper Hawk models.