cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

I've uploaded some video of my best laps at Gingerman a few weekends ago.

For your enjoyment, education, critique, etc...

There's no shifting because the brakes faded to an equilibrium where I could lock them up only by pressing square on the pedal. Pads are Hawk HP+, I'll be upgrading to Carbotech XP12/XP8 for my next track day.

My best time was a 1:53.6.
For reference:
2011 Mustang 5.0 on 275 Nitto NT05s: ~1:48.5
2010 Genesis coupe 2.0T @ 27psi on 225 Star Specs: 1:54.5
'86 FC3S NA on 225 V700s: 1:58.1

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

really liked the 2nd vid where the ect/oil temps where showing--made me laugh.
your 8 seems smooth--you know the track pretty good? I like the way it sounds too.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

The turn 5/6 complex gave me a problem for 2 laps when I first drove there. I was pushing it too hard without knowing the track.
I passed 2 Porsche GT2's. They obviously didn't know what they were doing. I taught a friend how to trail brake in his 8.
Take a day at Gratten. You won't regret it.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

This was the morning of my third day running the track. It's interesting how uninteresting fast laps are. I need to improve my turn in and downshifting. It's easy to be smooth if your power-limited.

I've gone off at speed and spun three times at the exit of T6; twice driving my car and once as a passenger in a '7. It makes you appreciate just how safe this track is.

For the 5-6 complex: going about ~90mph before T5 I brake hard with a little trail into T5. I then go to maintenance throttle between T5-T6 and tap the brakes to get the car to turn for 6. Jump the curb on 6 and touch the exit curbing at the end. My best exit speeds at the end of the curbing were 66-67 mph and I put some time on everyone I saw through that section.

I am considering Grattan for next year, it looks like a roller-coaster!

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Gingerman opened yesterday. Put ~240 track miles on the car with crappy all seasons and managed to beat my previous 1:53.6 with a 1:52.8. Harry's lap timer helped a lot...got me off a plateau at 1:55 to consistent 1:53s.

Sorry about the audio. Criticism is encouraged!

JDOliver

iTrader: (1)

You could cut a lot if time running straighter at some of the corners instead of making it a long sweeper. There you have to attack the turn and get out of it as much as fast as you can in a "momentum" car like the Rx8. Staying in the long sweeping turns with the tires scrubbing is killing time and speed that you need.

The guy in this Miata takes the same line we did at our race. Watch turn two particularly, lots of people run wide and you sneak in under them by pulling in close to the second apex and drifting out.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

JD,

Thanks for the advice. I found some time by getting on the gas earlier and tracking-out more smoothly but most time was on braking and turn in. The tires were awfully loud, which can deceivingly sound like understeer. Judging from my video (where the velocity is delayed a bit) , I begin accelerating (near full throttle) before the cone at turn two, do you think this is still too late? I appreciate the line the guy in the video is running, but it's hard to take much from the video when he's running so slow (>>2:00). There was a stock motor miata running 1:50.xx this weekend...You wouldn't happen to have any videos from your race?

Regards,
Chris

BJP

iTrader: (2)

I live not too far from Gingerman. I live in Elkhart, IN
Is it a nice track? How much is it to run there? what are the safety guidelines if I wanted to run my 8, which is basically stock

Your laps looked pretty good to me but I would only be a novice at best. I've had my 8 now for over 3 years now and never had the opprotunity for track time . I am dying to give it a try.

CG-LockRacer

I'll be (tentatively) instructing at both Grattan (6/28-30/13) and Gingerman (9/20-22/13) with the Rally Sport Region PCA. I haven't run Gingerman in a few years (SpecMiata), but Grattan is a blast in the RX-8. Come on out and have some fun!

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I don't think I can say enough how much I love to drive at Grattan.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

BJP,

Gingerman is one of the most economical tracks to run on. One day events are $150 and two day events are $250. I conservatively budget $400, and $600, respectively (I'm going to run more if it's a one day event). Gingerman was designed for amateur track days and club racing and it spares good spectator seats for driver safety. It is an extremely safe track I have no problem running 100% on. I've spun off at 65mph in a corner towards the closest land wall and still stopped well short.

You will need a helmet, SA2005 or newer. If you're going to buy one, I can recommend the Geforce Pro Eliminator or Bell Sport. I tried the cheap Pyrotech and Zamp ones first but was unimpressed. I got great service from Apexperformance.com but I'm sure SafeRacer or OGRacing will provide good service as well. Measure 10 times, buy once. The suggested measurements were accurate for me, don't forget about your hair. Ideally, you can find a local shop and try on helmets before committing to buy. Don't skimp on a helmet, get a SA2010 closed face (flying rubber hurts at 100mph) that is comfortable.

Sign up for an early autocross or autocross school. Turn off DCS and TCS and get used to the car with your track setup. Drive the **** out of the car..try to spin it. You would much rather see problems at 50mph on a parking lot than 90-100mph before a wall.

As for the car...on your first track day:

CHANGE YOUR BRAKE FLUID. ATE Super Blue, Motul 600 or similar. Nothing less than high-temp racing fluid.

Brake Pads...Stock pads have good feel but will fade if you're lapping hard. A novice should be okay with them on anything but the best tires. At $350+ a set with dust and noise, you might want to take a cool down lap instead of commit to racing pads. I started running on HP+, which worked fine for my first day. If you have performance-driving experience, you will probably need dedicated track pads, even on all-seasons. Don't show up with less than 5mm on all of your pads if you don't have a spare set.

Tires - Make sure they have tread. All seasons are going to teach you the most for the lowest $$ and risk.

If you have the time, replace the tranny and diff fluid. Most are happy with Redline MTL-90 for the tranny. I use 140w75ns in the tranny and lightweight shockproof in the diff. Relatively fresh stock fluid should be fine, however.

You will eventually destroy your catalytic converter, but it's okay to run it for your first event.

I will be going to Gingerman frequently this spring. Shoot me a PM and we can get in touch...

-Chris

TANKERG

Another bit of track day info, DO NOT run on a tire that has been repaired!!!

JDOliver

iTrader: (1)

Our team has been to Chicago, Atlanta, Nashville, and South Carolina, with everyone enjoying Gingerman the best. It has a much more laidback feel.
I think a better set of tires is going to be the biggest improvement you can make in time. Realistically we are comparing Apples to Oranges considering the HP levels of the cars, weights, and tires but if you watch some of the drivers that have spent a significant amount of time on that track they all run the same basic lines which are slightly different than yours. What are you running for alignment ?

We ran Hankook R-s3 that already had lots of hard track time and are down on HP to pretty much every car there but you can see what the driver does that worked and didn't. I don't know which driver this video is of but he runs several different lines and if you watch the him VS. the car that is in front of him you can see the result.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Has Grattan posted a schedule for this year? I'm definitively running Gingerman and Mid-O w/ NASA in April, Gman w/ NASA in Aug, tentatively Gman in May so looking for something in the June/July, possible May timeframe.

Al, had you picked dates for the first half of this season?

CG, how much track time does one get at the PCA events? Are you going to run on any other dates? Are they more focused on instruction (think NASA) or open track time?

-Chris

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Ahh...w2w must be awesome, I hope to start with some Lemons/Chump this year.

I still can't agree with you with respect to the line. I'm not saying my line is perfect, but the driver in the video you posted is not even using the track. I hate to say it, but IMO that line is no good...it doesn't even look like he is minimizing distance/curvature due to the low power. I just reviewed the video you posted and my video with a guy who finished top ten (in lap time) in that race (and who I am running significantly faster than in my video above) and, while our lines are a bit different, we agree the line in the video you posted is not fast.

I don't think I have a perfect line and I hate to sound stubborn on this, but I really need to see someone running as fast/faster in a similar or slower car before I can be convinced.


Similar car setting a 1:46 (s2k on hoosiers):

CG-LockRacer

At Grattan, you will get at least 4 20-30 min sessions on Saturday and Sunday. We focus a lot on instruction. If you've never run with them before, you will have an instructor for a few sessions no matter what just to insure safety. There are 4 run groups (beginner, novice, advanced, instructor). It is a very laid back group and a ton of fun. Most people get more track time than they can handle! This will be the first time I run Gingerman, but I expect similar. When we run Waterford (the "home" track), it's 4 20 min. sessions.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

I will look into details on the PCA event. Having instruction the first time at the track seems worth a little less time on track.

I ran Waterford this past year. I could have gone for some more track time - I was running intermediate and a lot of time was spent behind other cars because you can't pass in the turns and there are only 2.5 straights. Still great fun and well suited for our cars. However, I had my car set up neutral-loose and am not comfortable without TC/DSC on Waterford so it gets frustrating bouncing on and off the aids through every corner. I don't think I'll run there again until I have a second car. When is the first time you're running Gingerman?

-Chris

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Not an RX8, but some good footage from last weekend's race:


Best time is a 1:51.8 which was ~1s off FTD. Obviously taking it very easy on the brakes.

~P35 to P2 in one stint. Race starts at 2:00.
Things get interesting when the E36 passes for P3(?) at 54:30.
The yellow/white XR4TI is running P1 when we approach him at around 1:04:00.
Fuel starvation started on the last lap out of T3.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I won't be running any events this year. I'm feeling my age and have lost the passion for going at speed on the track. I still have the memories of what was and the dreams of what could have been.